New Downtown Calgary Arena

[googspecial]

Oh jeeze I wasn't aware the bus barn was completely non-negotiable. This was all fantasy anyways, no?

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

To bad you're not likely to ever get the bus barns, pretty sure transit is going to hold on to that for a very long time.

Also, the province owns the land where the arena is posited to be for a high speed rail station.

[googspecial]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Also, the province owns the land where the arena is posited to be for a high speed rail station.

Is there any plans for the parcel just north of the tracks there? I would think this to be a better utilization of land for a station.

[speedog]

Originally Posted by googspecial

Move the stadium one block to the west - that takes care of the bus barn issues and I don't believe that the Stampede owns any land north of 12th Avenue. The SE line station location isn't probably set in stone yet and could probably be moved half a block to the west to better accommodate both a new arena and stadium and there'd even be enough room for a field house too. Quite close to any future high speed rail station as well.

Still won't have those great views that Firepark has but a view isn't what a new arena and stadium should be about anyways. One advantage Firepark has is it's proximity to Deerfoot, Memorial, Barlow and even 16th Avenue NE and 17th Avenue SE with a possibility (far fetched) of some flyovers that directly connect to Deerfoot.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Make sure for firepark you also include the maxbell lands on the other side of the train station. Between these two tiered sites, it is massive, and also a bridge virtually to the mouth of International Avenue.

You do know that international avenue is on 17th avenue SE right?

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Wouldn't be surprised to see the Flames seeking money from the municipality for a new complex ... Not that the City would be very willing to do that in the first place, but choosing the Railtown location and incorporating a large C-train/High speed rail station into the design would be a way to get the government think twice about contributing money

IMO bridging a station on the north parcels and bridging over the tracks to a complex would be a hell of a way connect the EV with Victoria Park

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by googspecial

Is there any plans for the parcel just north of the tracks there? I would think this to be a better utilization of land for a station.

I assume the usual CPR intransigence would prevent some over the tracks development if that was to be required?

Having both stadiums in the same spot is a bad idea. The football stadium is also of too little value to have in the inner city, I can't see it generating enough activity to actually be a benefit to the neighbourhood.

1. Arena in Railtown
2. Football Stadium in Firepark
3. Redevelop McMahon area as high-density mixed use with field house in Foothills Athletic Park

[tomthumb2]

West Village would be great for that end of town, but I feel it would cost the most. With reconfiguration of the nearby road networks, upgrading an existing LRT station, adding underground parking etc.. It could certainly be the coolest location for all of this to go, and I would love to drive down the Bow Trail viaducts past these buildings, or into a tunnel underneath. But that's a dirty word in this city.

Why is that? I think Bow Trail going under that area would be great. Would give more room too. They built a tunnel at the airport and no one screamed about that (or did I miss that).

That entire Bow Trail/Crowchild disaster is eventually going to have to be fixed anyway!

[googspecial]

Originally Posted by H.E.Pennypacker

IMO bridging a station on the north parcels and bridging over the tracks to a complex would be a hell of a way connect the EV with Victoria Park

I agree. This is where my mind was going playing around with this. But I guess it can be nothing but a dream

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by fusili

You do know that international avenue is on 17th avenue SE right?

Yes - the max bell lands reach all the way. What the master plan would need to do is create a promenade to make that bridge.

See:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0420896,-114.0000748,2556m/data=!3m1!1e3

In fact, where the max bell lands connect to 17th SE is precisely where there are plans for a performance space, part of the International Avenue Arts and Culture Centre. http://iaacc.ca

It is on this triangular piece of land:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@51.0368096,-113.9967809,18z

Now read my lips ...

If you include Firepark, all of the Max Bell lands, and bridge to the IAACC at the mouth of International avenue, integrate the terraced lands on the two sides of Memorial with an integrated LRT station, have a promenade all the way through to the new performing arts centre (which is already being worked), and then work the International Avenue transit angle, you can have an absolutely out of this world district that would encapsulate all of the best elements of mixed use you can think of.

BTW FUsilly - given you supposedly have me on ignore, to play that act through all the way you need to stop responding to my posts.

[nick.flood]

delete

[Spring2008]

Apparently inner-city Calgary doesn't meet Suburbia's lofty standards, but the NE and 17th AV SE do??

[nick.flood]

delete

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by nick.flood

That will never survive on just 41 NHL hockey games, 32 +/- Concerts/Acts, 36 WHL games, 9 CFL games, and 8 NLL games.

You guys are really challenged. The area identified between firepark and max bell lands through to the new performance space at 17th, is plenty large enough for a very substantial mixed use master plan. It is as large and possibly larger than all of EV.

[The Fisher Account]

Cough

THERE WILL NOT BE AN ARENA IN FIREPARK. GET OVER IT ALREADY.

[Innersoul1]

I dig Suburbia's passion about the Firepark/Max Bell sites. However, after seeing those google maps images I would still lean toward Railtown and West Village. Firepark is just too much of a node for me. It's isolated. On the north side of Memorial you have industrial lands. Really you aren't going to attract business to that area. To the south near the Max Bell site, you have 17th Ave SE which as vibrant as it is in its own way is pretty ghetto. Again it would take a lot to have stakeholders (restaurateurs, shops, stores, hotels etc.) invest in the revitalization of those areas.

The Railtown site certainly benefits from proximity to the Stampede grounds and the East Village where you will already have proximity to density and established businesses, restaurants, pubs and clubs plus the proximity to downtown means that any businesses or entertainment zones attached to the arena will be used by the downtown crowd.

West Village offers the opportunity to revitalize the west end. I suspect that proximity to the already established zone of high density condos in that area will be bolstered by businesses willing to move in to an area that will be supported by both dwellers and arena patrons. Again there will be benefits from the proximity to downtown.

The big thing for me with regard to the West Village site is the integration of the LRT into the site itself. One of the things that I really like about the Edmonton site is how the LRT runs right through it (although the actual integration could be better worked out. I have no issues with walking a few blocks from the LRT to the stadium as would be the case with the Railtown site. But the potential to have the Sunalta LRT factor directly into the stadium is pretty amazing. It would literally be a short skip to the stadium. If a station head (access facilities) was built on the west side of the existing Sunalta station you would be able to directly access the station itself which would be pretty cool. Even if Bow Trail were to run under the stadium as Expo Blvd does in Vancouver it would save costs that could be associated with tunneling.

[McMurph]

Thanks for the diagrams. I was under the impression that it's not desirable to give a stadium an east-west configuration as shown in the WV layout, and it doesn't look like it would quite fit anywhere around there if in a N-S alignment.

[googspecial]

Originally Posted by McMurph

Thanks for the diagrams. I was under the impression that it's not desirable to give a stadium an east-west configuration as shown in the WV layout, and it doesn't look like it would quite fit anywhere around there if in a N-S alignment.

With the stadium I used it really encroached on the river and railway going N-S. So I just put it E-W for ease of visualization of its space. Certainly if Bow Trail was buried it could work.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I dig Suburbia's passion about the Firepark/Max Bell sites. However, after seeing those google maps images I would still lean toward Railtown and West Village. Firepark is just too much of a node for me. It's isolated. On the north side of Memorial you have industrial lands. Really you aren't going to attract business to that area. To the south near the Max Bell site, you have 17th Ave SE which as vibrant as it is in its own way is pretty ghetto. Again it would take a lot to have stakeholders (restaurateurs, shops, stores, hotels etc.) invest in the revitalization of those areas.

The Railtown site certainly benefits from proximity to the Stampede grounds and the East Village where you will already have proximity to density and established businesses, restaurants, pubs and clubs plus the proximity to downtown means that any businesses or entertainment zones attached to the arena will be used by the downtown crowd.

West Village offers the opportunity to revitalize the west end. I suspect that proximity to the already established zone of high density condos in that area will be bolstered by businesses willing to move in to an area that will be supported by both dwellers and arena patrons. Again there will be benefits from the proximity to downtown.

The big thing for me with regard to the West Village site is the integration of the LRT into the site itself. One of the things that I really like about the Edmonton site is how the LRT runs right through it (although the actual integration could be better worked out. I have no issues with walking a few blocks from the LRT to the stadium as would be the case with the Railtown site. But the potential to have the Sunalta LRT factor directly into the stadium is pretty amazing. It would literally be a short skip to the stadium. If a station head (access facilities) was built on the west side of the existing Sunalta station you would be able to directly access the station itself which would be pretty cool. Even if Bow Trail were to run under the stadium as Expo Blvd does in Vancouver it would save costs that could be associated with tunneling.

I'll get off this horse ... but not before pointing out that both Railtown and West village are two small for a comprehensive complex that Ken King has been talking about.

Yeah, it could work if bow trail were underground but, uhh, you'd do that instead of two LRT lines? LOLQ

[speedog]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

Cough

THERE WILL NOT BE AN ARENA IN FIREPARK. GET OVER IT ALREADY.

So cough up your opinion as to where this new supposed complex will be going if you're so sure it isn't going to be Firepark - you seem to be quite adept at shooting other people's ideas down.

Like I said earlier, what about the McMahon lands - an arena and stadium and fieldhouse could all fit there nicely and be built without demolishing the existing stadium - this would leave a lot of land available to be redeveloped as well. Could tie in a new arena to the two existing arenas as well. got hotels and some restaurants nearby and Brentwood TOD is not that far away as well...