New Downtown Calgary Arena

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I can speak for myself and my 3 friends that all have season tickets together, and I would 100% attend less games if the arena was at Firepark, for many reasons, including logistics.

I think the Flame's have heard the same thing from many people regarding an arena outside of downtown, and (luckily) want nothing to do with it.

That's great. There are many lined up to take your place!

I'm surprised you drive to the games, or do you take the LRT and just making the logistical challenges up (given Firepark is getter connected to existing LRT than railtown)?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by flipstah

Stampede has an entertainment district?

Good point. Railtown is in the middle of no where. An arena there will just guarantee drunks on tracks.

[Chadillaccc]

Boy, you is dizzy. What are you smoking up there?

[Ice Cream Man]

One of the reasons for also breaking away from the Stampede would be to retain all their own parking revenue, which is a sizeable amount.

[hulkrogan]

Originally Posted by suburbia

That's great. There are many lined up to take your place!

I'm surprised you drive to the games, or do you take the LRT and just making the logistical challenges up (given Firepark is getter connected to existing LRT than railtown)?

Wow you're a dink.

1. There aren't people lined up to take my place. There are games we have troubles giving our tickets away these days. I'm glad the Flames aren't as cocky as you about the marketability of the team, and still remember the days of 12,000 fans per game and nearly losing the franchise.

2. I've driven, walked, biked, taken LRT, Car2go and taxis to the game before. I'm pretty familiar with transportation options to a place I've been 40 times a year for the past 14 years from 3 different residences and several different workplaces.

3. One of the rumored east side downtown locations would have had an underground SE LRT station in the basement. It also would have been walkable form any other LRT lines without transit. How is Firepark better than that?

You have what will be the biggest neighbourhood in Calgary within walking distance from your arena.

You have your largest employment centre within walking distance of your arena.

But yeah, jamming everyone onto the same train line going the same direction to go to Firepark sounds way better!

And if I have to leave a game early to go play hockey, being stuck paying $20 for parking instead of parking for free sounds way better too!

[MalcolmTucker]

Unless they can rent out parking during the day as well, which would be a gamble, you aren't making money on it.

[Ice Cream Man]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Unless they can rent out parking during the day as well, which would be a gamble, you aren't making money on it.

Agree to disagree. No worries though.

[fusili]

Originally Posted by 5seconds

I vote for the ATCO lands near Crowchild and MRU. Then push for better transit to both. I'm only half-joking.

That would not be a bad location. I have always thought the 306 should eventually be upgraded to a LRT. The other option would be to have an LRT from Downtown to CFB West/MRU/ATCO lands via Crowchild, then on to Rockyview Hospital and the SW communities of Palliser, Oakridge, Cedarbrae, Braeside, Woodbine and Woodlands via 14th Street and 24th street.

[bt04ku]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were on Venus, how's the weather? On Earth our years are typically 365 days. The guaranteed day-to-day traffic at L.A. Live is the movie theatres (and Nokia theatres) and they are needed to support the restaurants. During the slow times there are all sorts of promotions to that effect. That is a feature found in a lot of similar developments. Theatres bring in a lot of foot traffic when the primary attraction isn't operating. Citywalk at Universal Studios is similar. The restaurants and retailers aren't going to stick around paying rent when the theme park closes at 6:00.

I'd consider the theatres more of a 'jockey pump' for such a development. It does keep a constant pressure when the big guys aren't operating but not enough to keep everything open.

Club Nokia and Nokia Theatre are extremely handy to have (the mid-size venue that Calgary so desperately lacks), but their 33 events combined between now and the New Year is dwarfed by the Staples Center's 64 in the same time period.

Staples Center is the meat, everything else is the gravy.

The challenge for amenities in a location like Railtown or the West Village is whether or not they will have a sufficient draw to bring people from outside the area when there is no game or event taking place. That will be defined to a tremendous degree not just by the amenities themselves but also by traffic and parking hassles and just how comfortable people feel in that area at the end of the night.

The advantage of these locations, particularly Railtown, is that the people would already be there (I figure more of the EV and East Beltline developments will be finished by the time an arena isdone), you don't really need to 'bring them in.' As East Village keeps developing, the walk from a downtown office to that location not only is easier and more desirable than trying to leave downtown during rush hour, but would actually be kind of pleasant.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by flipstah

The only time I'd ever go to that area are:

- Concerts I bought tickets for
- Stampede once because as a Calgarian, it's all the same every year so once is sufficient
- If the Flyers are in town

Other than that, there's no BIG incentive for me to go past 7th Ave. Cowboys suck and I'd rather drive to Grey Eagle for an awesome meal and gamble the night away.

Fixed that for you....

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by bt04ku

I'd consider the theatres more of a 'jockey pump' for such a development. It does keep a constant pressure when the big guys aren't operating but not enough to keep everything open.

Club Nokia and Nokia Theatre are extremely handy to have (the mid-size venue that Calgary so desperately lacks), but their 33 events combined between now and the New Year is dwarfed by the Staples Center's 64 in the same time period.

Staples Center is the meat, everything else is the gravy.

There is no question that the Staples Center is the dominant attraction, but that alone can't support the restaurants and retail. They need the consistent theatre traffic to survive. The Nokia facilities also host a lot of private corporate events.

The advantage of these locations, particularly Railtown, is that the people would already be there (I figure more of the EV and East Beltline developments will be finished by the time an arena isdone), you don't really need to 'bring them in.

How many times in a year are you going to eat at a Margaritaville or the Hard Rock Cafe even if it's just a couple blocks from your home? How many times are you going to visit a 100,000 square Flames Fanatic store in a lifetime? Is a cheesy Flames themed bar or whatever Vickers shits out in the general vicinity going to be "your bar"?

Do people who live in Manhattan go to Time Square for a meal?

[Spring2008]

The better question might be, do you own land in and around Firestone?

[Policy Wonk]

No, I just think this would be the best potential outcome for that site.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

How many times in a year are you going to eat at a Margaritaville or the Hard Rock Cafe even if it's just a couple blocks from your home? How many times are you going to visit a 100,000 square Flames Fanatic store in a lifetime? Is a cheesy Flames themed bar or whatever Vickers shits out in the general vicinity going to be "your bar"?

Do people who live in Manhattan go to Time Square for a meal?

Well said and elegantly put. Your Vickers comment made me physically snort.

Living nearby, you wouldn't catch me dead in either place.
For my own selfish reasons, I hope the Flames relocate to CrossIron Mills.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

There aren't people lined up to take my place. There are games we have troubles giving our tickets away these days.

Yeah - the current location isn't the best.

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

I've driven, walked, biked, taken LRT, Car2go and taxis to the game before. I'm pretty familiar with transportation options

So - what exactly is the logistical challenge getting to the Barlow / MaxBell LRT station?

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

One of the rumored east side downtown locations would have had an underground SE LRT station in the basement. It also would have been walkable form any other LRT lines without transit. How is Firepark better than that?

The Barlow / MaxBell station is well below fire-park grade, and as such, you'd be entering directly in below grade.

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

But yeah, jamming everyone onto the same train line going the same direction to go to Firepark sounds way better!

You mean like the Stampede grounds?

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

And if I have to leave a game early to go play hockey, being stuck paying $20 for parking instead of parking for free sounds way better too!

Now you're really confused. Downtown is the worst for parking, and frankly speaking, you should really consider public transit.

Anyway - between Firepark and the MaxBell site, it is over 3 times the railtown site, so it is not apples to apples. The Firepark/Maxbell option would have way more development and some aspects of a full blown TOD integrated.

[bt04ku]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

There is no question that the Staples Center is the dominant attraction, but that alone can't support the restaurants and retail. They need the consistent theatre traffic to survive. The Nokia facilities also host a lot of private corporate events.

Which is handy when you have it next to downtown L.A. If you want corporate events, why would you move it farther from your corporate base?

How many times in a year are you going to eat at a Margaritaville or the Hard Rock Cafe even if it's just a couple blocks from your home? How many times are you going to visit a 100,000 square Flames Fanatic store in a lifetime? Is a cheesy Flames themed bar or whatever Vickers shits out in the general vicinity going to be "your bar"?

Do people who live in Manhattan go to Time Square for a meal?

These wouldn't survive at Firepark either, this wouldn't be a tourist driven area as we aren't a tourist driven city like LA or New York when it comes to these attractions.

If Flames Central can survive on Stephen Ave, an equally cheesy Flames bar would be better served being a stone's throw from their clientele with more 'neighborhood appropriate' amenities to support it and whatever other 'star attractions' would be a part of it. I don't know what kind of daily (mainly weeknight) traffic you'd expect when Chinook offers south drivers the same thing but closer and the Beltline folk who can take the LRT aren't going to Margaritaville so that doesn't leave a whole lot of people clamoring to head that way for anything other than a hockey game in my estimation.

No, I just think this would be the best potential outcome for that site.

While it may be fine for the site, it would be terrible for an arena district given the other options available. Building the Canadian Tire Centre where they did was the best outcome for that site too, doesn't make it a good choice.

[bt04ku]

Originally Posted by suburbia

You mean like the Stampede grounds?

People in the south take the northbound train, people from the NW and West take the southbound train, this reverses when the game ends. They're on the same line but split up.

At Fire Park, people in the south transfer at City Hall to take the eastbound train that is full of the people from the NW (who would be smart to transfer at 8th St) and West, and all those same people are trying to get on the same train after the game as well.

West Village has a similar problem but at least doesn't have to worry about the people in the West piling on to the same trains as the Red Line folk.

Railtown avoids the problems altogether (shorter walk from City Hall than Vic Park station is from the Saddledome) which means the best station is one that nobody needs to transfer from, and is on a future line to boot.


Transit wise Fire Park is the worst of the three because of where the Flames main customer base comes from.

[*Stardust*]

Maybe it's time for me to start a new poll again on where the new arena should be?

[craner]

I think the Flames would br crazy to build the new arena anywhere that isn't within walking distance of downtown. As several others have mentioned, a good portion of their patrons come from the office on gamedays, grab a bite & drink in the downtown vicinity, and then head to the dome.

[RyLucky]

What do you think the daytime population of Downtown and the Beltline is? 100-150k?