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  #181  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 3:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
but you'd need to replace the Rideau River bridge near Colonnade--I can't see that being dirt cheap.
That bridge is already double tracked. The Woodroffe and Merivale crossings would certainly have to be grade separated if there is going to be any sort of frequency on it though. On the line towards Kanata, pretty well all the viaducts have room to be double tracked.

It's still a pretty stupid plan though, there is little TOD potential to offset the cost, and would likely run empty in the opposite direction. It definitely resonates with the suburban/rural demographic who have no understanding of urban transit and think that the inner city has it so good. In fact one of McGuires selling points is that his plan would relieve Queensway traffic, not necessarily to improve transit!
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  #182  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
That bridge is already double tracked. The Woodroffe and Merivale crossings would certainly have to be grade separated if there is going to be any sort of frequency on it though. On the line towards Kanata, pretty well all the viaducts have room to be double tracked.

It's still a pretty stupid plan though, there is little TOD potential to offset the cost, and would likely run empty in the opposite direction. It definitely resonates with the suburban/rural demographic who have no understanding of urban transit and think that the inner city has it so good. In fact one of McGuires selling points is that his plan would relieve Queensway traffic, not necessarily to improve transit!
Not to mention that with the type of vehicles he's proposing, every single intersection would have to be great separated. Talents and Lints can't do level crossings with gates and flashing lights on roads, TC regulations prohibit it. Switching to locos wouldn't be a huge deal but the fact that he never brought up the topic shows that he really hasn't done his homework on this.
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  #183  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 3:56 PM
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Just saw David Reevely tweet an exact map of Maguire's Orleans route.... and get this: The line says 'Bayview to Place D'Orleans' and shows a route going through the southern wilderness, ending at Innes & Tenth Line at a station called 'Orleans Mall'. Apparently he doesn't know where Place D'Orleans even is. Embarassing.
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  #184  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 5:41 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Just saw David Reevely tweet an exact map of Maguire's Orleans route.... and get this: The line says 'Bayview to Place D'Orleans' and shows a route going through the southern wilderness, ending at Innes & Tenth Line at a station called 'Orleans Mall'. Apparently he doesn't know where Place D'Orleans even is. Embarassing.
Maybe he meant "a place in Orleans"?
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  #185  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 5:53 PM
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Transport Canada regulations prohibit DMU vehicles like the O-Train from making level crossings with roadways. If you look at the City's Phase 2 plan to extend the O-Train south, they include grade separations at Lester, Leitrim, and Bowesville, because they have to.
You want to know why this regulation exists? Because the City of Ottawa asked for it. That's right. Not because Transport Canada was being a bunch of pricks or something. Our municipal government curtailed its own options. I don't know why, and frankly every time I think about it I can't help but starting to go conspiratorial because not much else makes any sense.

Just think about how nonsensical it is:
-the Talent can cross other railways, including making trains on the other tracks stop and wait
-trains on other railways can cross other railways, roadways and multi-use paths
-the Talent can cross multi-use paths
-But for some reason the Talent can't cross roadways

This really isn't a "real" problem. If there was a will to fix it, it could be fixed.
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  #186  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
That bridge is already double tracked.
Doesn't look like it on Google Earth (image from 24 Sept 2013).
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  #187  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
That bridge is already double tracked. The Woodroffe and Merivale crossings would certainly have to be grade separated if there is going to be any sort of frequency on it though. On the line towards Kanata, pretty well all the viaducts have room to be double tracked.
The Rideau River railway bridge is not doubled tracked, but it was designed and built with water-level piers sufficient to accommodate a second bridge.

There's no particular need to grade separate anything else (excepting the City of Ottawa's contrived limitation of its own ability to do so). The trains are not going to run at a frequency under any operating scenario that would require grade separation.

The reason the line to Kanata is grade separated is because it used to be part of CN's transcontinental line, meaning it once saw mile-long slow-moving freight trains that would have tied up traffic for several minutes at a time. But that's not an issue with short, fast-moving DMUs like we'd see on the line to Barrhaven.
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  #188  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 6:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
You want to know why this regulation exists? Because the City of Ottawa asked for it. That's right. Not because Transport Canada was being a bunch of pricks or something. Our municipal government curtailed its own options. I don't know why, and frankly every time I think about it I can't help but starting to go conspiratorial because not much else makes any sense.

Just think about how nonsensical it is:
-the Talent can cross other railways, including making trains on the other tracks stop and wait
-trains on other railways can cross other railways, roadways and multi-use paths
-the Talent can cross multi-use paths
-But for some reason the Talent can't cross roadways

This really isn't a "real" problem. If there was a will to fix it, it could be fixed.
I would have thought it was because MUP crossings only involve pedestrians and cyclists, and if a train hits one of them you clean it off and put it back in service (a harsh reality). Rail crossings are protected by interlocking signals, and with Automatic Train Protection, the Talents and Lints can't blow past a signal like a car could at a grade crossing. FRA compliance is largely about making the trains capable of smashing into cars and trucks, and the Lints and Talents aren't compliant. I personally think the FRA rules are ridiculous, but since we're joined at the hip with the States, Toronto ends up with hideous, expensive one-off DMUs to run to the airport, all in the name of compliance. Never mind the fact that UP Express lacks grade crossings all together.

Although there seems to be general agreement that the plan Maguire presents is terrible (the quality of the maps really gets me, with Carleton south of the river) the idea isn't terribly far-fetched, and I do like that it is being brought forwards into the public consciousness. If nothing else it will hopefully help protect these lines from being abandoned, and might inspire ideas for post 2025. The Orleans idea is ridiculous, but the Barrhaven and Kanata connections show some promise, especially with the Renfrew sub continuing to Carp and Arnprior. The city already has 3 spare trainsets waiting to be used for something, it seems that Barrhaven and Kanata could get mainline rail connections a lot faster than LRT.
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  #189  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2014, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Interesting race emerging in Rideau-Vanier. Fleury, himself a young man who defeated an incumbent, may potentially be ousted by another young man: Marc Aubin, who has proven himself a very strong candidate.

Among his goals are:

-Better winter clearing of sidewalks
-More segregated bikeways
-Support for LRT Phase 2
-Support for improving interprovincial transit
-Reduce crosswalk wait times and change timings to be more pedestrian-friendly
-Reduce surface parking lots
-Getting rid of strip malls & not allowing new ones to be built
-Create BIAs for Uptown Rideau & Laurier Avenue East
-For the city to give an official apology for the 1960s/1970s era 'urban renewal' schemes
-Ensure new development is street-oriented
-Preserve heritage buildings by promoting their integration into redevelopment schemes

I'm voting for him, and I hope he wins and then runs for mayor whenever Watson retires. He's the kind of urban visionary Ottawa really needs in my opinion.
Aubin is going to be getting my vote as well. That Fleury cant participate in planning meetings regarding Claridge is incredible considering what this developer has done to the ward over the last 10 years. Lowertown needs to be represented at these meetings so abominations like CP 1-4 don't happen again!
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  #190  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:10 AM
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I have this theory that it's only a matter of time until any thread turns into a transit thread
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  #191  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 3:53 AM
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Plenty of threads out there for more transit plan discussions moved 1overcosc 1overcosc's posts and responses there
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/forumdisplay.php?f=262
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  #192  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 9:52 PM
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  #193  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2014, 11:32 PM
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I have this theory that it's only a matter of time until any thread turns into a transit thread
I dub this "Kitch's Law"
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  #194  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 1:06 AM
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Maguire's transit platform won't carry him to office

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: October 1, 2014, Last Updated: October 1, 2014 7:48 PM EDT


Mike Maguire insists he’s running to be the next mayor of Ottawa.

And some of his platform will no doubt appeal to some voters: bring back weekly garbage pickup, aim for a zero per cent property tax increase, lobby the provincial government to buy hydro electricity from Quebec.

But his transit plan — scrapping the second phase of LRT and replacing it with four commuter trains that run just four times in each of the morning and evening rush hours — is so out of touch with what the city wants that it’s difficult to believe that Maguire is serious about wanting our town’s top job.

“I don’t agree it’s a huge obstacle,” Maguire told the Citizen’s editorial board Tuesday morning when asked about the unsaleability of his rail plan.

“I’ve got weeks left to make this abundantly clear to the right number of people who will look at this and say either they agree or they disagree. This is a matter of public policy and what better way to (make) a decision on public policy than to have a vote.”

Fair enough. But the citizens of Ottawa have already voted on this particular point of public policy — in the provincial election last June.

It was during an Ottawa campaign stop just a week before the June 12 election when PC leader Tim Hudak said that, if elected, he wouldn’t go ahead with Ottawa’s planned second phase of light rail. That didn’t go over so well in most Ottawa ridings, where voters delivered larger-than-expected victories to many Liberal candidates (with some notable exceptions).

Why Hudak’s campaign failed to engage Ontario voters is an issue the Progressive Conservatives are grappling with as their search for a new leader evolves. But there is no doubt that the PCs’ pledge not to fund LRT was a key factor in their failure to break through in most of urban Ottawa.

If abandoning LRT was a political non-starter for Hudak, what makes Maguire think it’ll work for him?

It’s also hard to buy Maguire’s claim that people don’t really understand Phase 2 of LRT. What’s not to understand? From 2018 to 2023, the city wants to extend light rail east to Place d’Orleans, west to Bayshore Mall, southwest to Baseline and south to Bowesville.

If anything, it’s Maguire’s plan to use existing rail that’s complicated. (Full disclosure: My Monday column incorrectly indicated that Maguire’s Kanata line involved at-grade crossings at Merivale, Woodroffe and Greenbank. In fact, the grades are separated at these crossings, which Maguire also seemed unaware of when asked. However, his plan does call for trains to cross at, among other roads, Anderson, Renaud, Navan, Mer Bleue and Tenth Line, and includes the Barrhaven crossings that have been the subject of so much trouble this past winter.)

Now, Maguire is right when he says that light rail won’t make it out to Kanata in Phase 2, and that the federal funding for a third of the $3-billion bill is far from secured. Indeed, as it currently stands, the federal government’s infrastructure fund commits $10 billion over the next 10 years for all projects in the country. It’s difficult to foresee a scenario where Ottawa gets 10 per cent of the entire infrastructure budget for the next decade.

And perhaps it will turn out that we can’t build LRT out in all directions as quickly as we’d like, which would be disappointing.

But like Maguire told the Citizen’s editorial board about his obstacle-ridden rail plan, “There’s not going to be a problem-free solution. That doesn’t mean you just throw up your hands and walk away.”

That’s exactly what most people would say about light rail. In the 2010 municipal election, voters made it quite clear they wanted to move ahead with LRT. It would be bizarre if they now decided to abandon the 12.5 kilometres being built in the centre of the city and side with an entirely different plan.

Indeed, it’s hard to know at whom Maguire’s plan is aimed, other than, perhaps, the 3,200 people that his rail plan would accommodate, people who don’t care about transit or the environment, and people who, for whatever reason, don’t want to re-elect incumbent Jim Watson.

That might be as many as 30 per cent of voters. But the fact is, after taxes, transit is the issue that most concerns Ottawa residents, a Forum poll (and anecdotal evidence) shows.

And Maguire, like Hudak, doesn’t have a transit plan. And that means he doesn’t have a plan to be mayor for most of Ottawa.

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/1010-col-chianello
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  #195  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 1:53 AM
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Looks like the Hobbs endgame is underway.
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  #196  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 1:05 PM
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  #197  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 5:20 PM
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I think Maguire is playing hard for the rural vote, since I doubt they want to pay for the LRT costs and likely are alarmed by the price tags. But that is only about 15% of the electorate...and he would likely do even better by calling for rural secession.

What is the debt rating of the City of Ottawa, AAA?

Last edited by eternallyme; Oct 2, 2014 at 6:30 PM.
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  #198  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2014, 8:03 PM
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What is the debt rating of the City of Ottawa, AAA?
Yep. Perfect. This obsession that the right-wing candidates have with the city's supposed bankruptcy is not only annoying it's completely false.
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  #199  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 2:19 AM
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I'm not a Leiper supporter (or any of the candidates for that matter), but I doubt that these accusations are true. He hasn't been supportive of Claridge or this project at any height, and is understandably displeased that this section was outside the scope of the CDP, where he wanted 6-storey buildings along main streets. This is just slander to discredit him.
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  #200  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2014, 4:08 AM
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Ah, Kitchissippi. Every 4 years a new candidate is swept into office in that ward, usually from a community association, because they claim they'll veto everything and make everyone's dreams come true. Things get built/done because they don't have that power (and they know it, but want a councillor's salary), and they get booted out at the next election by people who shouldn't have been so naïve as to believe them.

Last edited by S-Man; Oct 3, 2014 at 4:53 AM.
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