PHILADELPHIA | W Hotel & Element by Westin | 617 FT | 51 FLOORS

[summersm343]

Woohoo! Can't wait for construction to start!

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by Kidphilly

now listed as a location on the w website

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/whotels/directory/hotels/all/detail.html?language=en_US

3 W's in Atlanta and 1 in Minneapolis before they open one in Philly? Yikes...

What a strange dichotomy the 1400 and 1500 blocks of Chestnut will be. The 1400 block will feature two sleak and chic 4+ star hotels as well as one of the region's most expensive and exclusive steak houses. The 1500 block will feature Dollar Fashion, cheap sneaker row, PopEyes Chicken, and a Wendys...

[1487]

Originally Posted by Londonee

3 W's in Atlanta and 1 in Minneapolis before they open one in Philly? Yikes...

What a strange dichotomy the 1400 and 1500 blocks of Chestnut will be. The 1400 block will feature two sleak and chic 4+ star hotels as well as one of the region's most expensive and exclusive steak houses. The 1500 block will feature Dollar Fashion, cheap sneaker row, PopEyes Chicken, and a Wendys...

I dont know that philly needs or could sustain 2 Walnut Streets. And the south side of the 1400 block isnt full of high fashion retailers. CVS, a sneaker store and a soon to be vacant FYE store. And to be fair, the wendys will be next to a bank in the first floor of a newly rehabbed semi luxury apt building- which is across from a nice condo conversion.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Londonee

3 W's in Atlanta and 1 in Minneapolis before they open one in Philly? Yikes...

What a strange dichotomy the 1400 and 1500 blocks of Chestnut will be. The 1400 block will feature two sleak and chic 4+ star hotels as well as one of the region's most expensive and exclusive steak houses. The 1500 block will feature Dollar Fashion, cheap sneaker row, PopEyes Chicken, and a Wendys...

Remember where Philly is coming from. Even as far as 10 years ago the majority of Center City was still on the come back. The city has made great strides and is changing, but I feel like people forget where the city was not too long ago.

Chestnut is on the way back. the 1600 and 1700 blocks are popping right now. Naturally, that is going to carry over to into the 1400 and 1500 blocks. Fast food chains are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money for location. Perfect example is the McDonalds on Walnut St on possibly the highest rent retail block in the city of Philadelphia.

The W coming online on this block is going to send shockwaves through this stretch of Chestnut Street. I guarantee that.

Watch this video if you're not familiar with how far the city has come in the past decade or two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoEYNANks-I

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Londonee

3 W's in Atlanta and 1 in Minneapolis before they open one in Philly? Yikes...

What a strange dichotomy the 1400 and 1500 blocks of Chestnut will be. The 1400 block will feature two sleak and chic 4+ star hotels as well as one of the region's most expensive and exclusive steak houses. The 1500 block will feature Dollar Fashion, cheap sneaker row, PopEyes Chicken, and a Wendys...

True. But there has already been an improvement on Chestnut. And it will continue to improve.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 1487

I dont know that philly needs or could sustain 2 Walnut Streets. And the south side of the 1400 block isnt full of high fashion retailers. CVS, a sneaker store and a soon to be vacant FYE store. And to be fair, the wendys will be next to a bank in the first floor of a newly rehabbed semi luxury apt building- which is across from a nice condo conversion.

But it could do with some more higher end stores like Joan Shepp (which got priced out of Walnut) and Uniglo. Which is what I think will happen as the W goes up and the area continues to improve.

[summersm343]

Now that W Hotel has set an opening date on their website of January 1st, 2018, I would say construction is imminent now to start this year. A 52 story tower is going to need at least two years of construction.

[Jawnadelphia]

Great, great video on the Center City District, thanks ! I think we all sometimes get a little unrealistic with our desires for Philly, and that's ok -- we all love this city, so we want the very best for it. It takes time, big time investment, belief, and patience. Just remember,... there was a looong period-the late 70s thru the 80s ..even early 90s- where people were convinced NYC! was heading towards bankruptcy. Steven Siegel on Flickr has beautifully documented the NYC he knew during this time period... wow, what a scene. These pics are Manhattan and Times Square ... circa early 80s. Love these pics....., it was still the badlands, wild... only a generation ago. And now, just some 30 yrs later, new condos are selling for $95 mil+ (432 Park Ave - about to top out at 1,379 ft).

[IMG]NY in the 80s 21 by stevensiegel260, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]NY in the 80s 10 by stevensiegel260, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]NY in the 80s 1 by stevensiegel260, on Flickr[/IMG]
[IMG]NY in the 80s 351 by stevensiegel260, on Flickr[/IMG]

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Remember where Philly is coming from. Even as far as 10 years ago the majority of Center City was still on the come back. The city has made great strides and is changing, but I feel like people forget where the city was not too long ago.

Chestnut is on the way back. the 1600 and 1700 blocks are popping right now. Naturally, that is going to carry over to into the 1400 and 1500 blocks. Fast food chains are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money for location. Perfect example is the McDonalds on Walnut St on possibly the highest rent retail block in the city of Philadelphia.

The W coming online on this block is going to send shockwaves through this stretch of Chestnut Street. I guarantee that.

Watch this video if you're not familiar with how far the city has come in the past decade or two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoEYNANks-I

Cosign. And great video. While I would have liked to see things like that Wendy's move out entirely, it's just not feasible to get it out of that location completely right now. A friend of mine who works for Brook Lenfest told me that it's the most profitable Wendy's in the entire country.

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Remember where Philly is coming from. Even as far as 10 years ago the majority of Center City was still on the come back. The city has made great strides and is changing, but I feel like people forget where the city was not too long ago.

Chestnut is on the way back. the 1600 and 1700 blocks are popping right now. Naturally, that is going to carry over to into the 1400 and 1500 blocks. Fast food chains are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money for location. Perfect example is the McDonalds on Walnut St on possibly the highest rent retail block in the city of Philadelphia.

The W coming online on this block is going to send shockwaves through this stretch of Chestnut Street. I guarantee that.

Watch this video if you're not familiar with how far the city has come in the past decade or two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoEYNANks-I

good point. And Im not sure where people get the notion that fast food chains dont want to be located in up and coming, high traffic areas. I mean, the Kof P mall and surrounding area has fast food chains in abundance and that is the region's most upscale mall.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

But it could do with some more higher end stores like Joan Shepp (which got priced out of Walnut) and Uniglo. Which is what I think will happen as the W goes up and the area continues to improve.

I wouldn't presume that high rents = no fast food chains. They can pay the rents. Now I am inclined to believe that local restaurants and stores will keep getting pushed out, but I wouldn't expect the national chains to be scared off one bit. And the Wendy's is going to be all new and probably one of the nicest such places in the city when its done. People of all kinds want and like to spend money on "cheap" fast food. I havent been to Manhattan in a couple of years but I surely recall seeing fast food joints within blocks of Penn Station. Why would Philly be any different? The east side of chestnut needs FAR more attention that the 1400/1500 blocks of chestnut. There is construction in retail spaces all along chestnut and its not bad that you will be able to get pizza or a burger in some of these places.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 1487

I wouldn't presume that high rents = no fast food chains. They can pay the rents. Now I am inclined to believe that local restaurants and stores will keep getting pushed out, but I wouldn't expect the national chains to be scared off one bit. And the Wendy's is going to be all new and probably one of the nicest such places in the city when its done. People of all kinds want and like to spend money on "cheap" fast food. I havent been to Manhattan in a couple of years but I surely recall seeing fast food joints within blocks of Penn Station. Why would Philly be any different? The east side of chestnut needs FAR more attention that the 1400/1500 blocks of chestnut. There is construction in retail spaces all along chestnut and its not bad that you will be able to get pizza or a burger in some of these places.

I am more talking about places like Eternity Fashion and low end retail being priced off the street. There's an overall atmosphere and vibe to 15th and Chestnut that has already improved but is still not great. It's not just fast food chains.

[1487]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

I am more talking about places like Eternity Fashion and low end retail being priced off the street. There's an overall atmosphere and vibe to 15th and Chestnut that has already improved but is still not great. It's not just fast food chains.

I dont see it as an issue. Do you think someone will not book at W hotel because they find out you can buy sneakers in the next block? The stores need to make money to pay the rent, if the store is still there they must be selling a significant amount of merchandise. I dont shop in 95% of the stores in CC and have no interest in the products offered in those places, but if someone else does and the store doesn't look like crap from the outside I don't really complain just because I have no personal interest in the place. Walnut is the high end street and its doing pretty well right now. I dont believe all of center city necessarily should be a K of P duplicate.

[Jawnadelphia]

Originally Posted by 1487

I dont see it as an issue. Do you think someone will not book at W hotel because they find out you can buy sneakers in the next block? The stores need to make money to pay the rent, if the store is still there they must be selling a significant amount of merchandise. I dont shop in 95% of the stores in CC and have no interest in the products offered in those places, but if someone else does and the store doesn't look like crap from the outside I don't really complain just because I have no personal interest in the place. Walnut is the high end street and its doing pretty well right now. I dont believe all of center city necessarily should be a K of P duplicate.

Agreed - esp. with the last sentence. Walnut St is our high end shopping avenue. That's great. All big time cities have one.

As for Chestnut, we don't need a complete Disney-ifcation, corporate retail store/chain take over everywhere. A little character is good. An odd store here and there is cool. It's what makes a city unique (I almost wrote uniqlo...).

[Baconboy007]

To use the KOP analogy, they have high end (Walnut) and low end (Chestnut... not that Chestnut is very low end) rent locations within the mall.

Also to TallCoolOne's point those little unique stores that end up being really successful sometimes expand and become the corporate retail chain store.

[summersm343]

There are plenty of stores out there to fill both Walnut and Chestnut. Walnut is sort of filled to capacity guys. There isn't very many store openings available. And there are stores like Destination Maternity which will be moving to Chestnut to make room for higher end stores. I can see this happening with a few other storefronts as well.

[1487]

Originally Posted by summersm343

There are plenty of stores out there to fill both Walnut and Chestnut. Walnut is sort of filled to capacity guys. There isn't very many store openings available. And there are stores like Destination Maternity which will be moving to Chestnut to make room for higher end stores. I can see this happening with a few other storefronts as well.

im more concerned about lingering vacancies than the fact that Eternity fashion is on Chestnut. There are still at least 3 vacancies on the 1500 block, although one is going to be filled by a Halloween Store for a while. I cant recall if 1400 block has any empty storefronts. Also it seems construction on the relocated Pizza place that was formerly in the first floor of the soon to be Avenir Apts has halted due to L&I intervention. The south side of the 1500 block is pretty booked though.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by 1487

I dont see it as an issue. Do you think someone will not book at W hotel because they find out you can buy sneakers in the next block? The stores need to make money to pay the rent, if the store is still there they must be selling a significant amount of merchandise. I dont shop in 95% of the stores in CC and have no interest in the products offered in those places, but if someone else does and the store doesn't look like crap from the outside I don't really complain just because I have no personal interest in the place. Walnut is the high end street and its doing pretty well right now. I dont believe all of center city necessarily should be a K of P duplicate.

Well, I live near the area and don't much like the atmosphere walking around Chestnut from about 15th through 11th street. Maybe not quite that far down. But you guys get the idea. I think it will improve as (1) higher end stores both fill the vacant spaces and then (2) rents as a whole on the other stores increase, pushing some of the less desireable ones to move elsewhere. Higher end stores do not necessarily equate to chains for me. I'd prefer cool boutiques that can't afford Walnut Street rents but are still nice. I'm not hoping for a second Walnut Street.

[Insoluble]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

Well, I live near the area and don't much like the atmosphere walking around Chestnut from about 15th through 11th street. Maybe not quite that far down. But you guys get the idea. I think it will improve as (1) higher end stores both fill the vacant spaces and then (2) rents as a whole on the other stores increase, pushing some of the less desireable ones to move elsewhere. Higher end stores do not necessarily equate to chains for me. I'd prefer cool boutiques that can't afford Walnut Street rents but are still nice. I'm not hoping for a second Walnut Street.

15th through 11th???? The 1300 block has the Wanamaker Building/Macy's and several high end furniture stores. Chestnut Street between Broad and 11th street is fine. I think the biggest drag on Chestnut Street is that intersection with 15th, and that should be drastically improving with this W development.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by Insoluble

15th through 11th???? The 1300 block has the Wanamaker Building/Macy's and several high end furniture stores. Chestnut Street between Broad and 11th street is fine. I think the biggest drag on Chestnut Street is that intersection with 15th, and that should be drastically improving with this W development.

Yeah, probably just 15th and 14th/Broad is meh. 16th has improved already. I agree that the W will change much of that. As Summers said, it will send a shockwave.