The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[Chadillaccc]

So here is the extent of Calgary's rail transit at this point.

Yellow - current extent of urban development
Green - existing LRT network
Red - approved routing for future LRT network expansion





The future 203 Line (Green Line) from North Central to Southeast. Downtown funding not approved yet. It will be built as a bus transitway first, to be converted to LRT in the 2020s.



Sources: http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/mtgviewer.aspx?meetid=1396&doctype=AGENDA
http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/...uhzivdy4kkbo/28682709162014011803399.PDF
http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sirepub/...uhzivdy4kkbo/28683009162014011402410.PDF

[eemy]

McKenzie Towne (that spelling... ugh) will finally have rapid transit!

[rbt]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

McKenzie Towne (that spelling... ugh) will finally have rapid transit!

That's still listed as unfunded future work. The funded portion goes from 78N to Douglas Glen, a couple stops short.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

So if Lakeshore and Georgetown are grade separated in Toronto then when electrification comes they can run them as real subways.

They don't require EMU units especially as some subway systems don't use third rail but overhead catenary with Cleveland being the closest example.

EMU (electric multiple unit) means there are electric motors spread throughout the train built into the passenger cars rather than having unpowered cars pulled or pushed by a locomotive. It has nothing to do with whether the train gets power from 3rd rail or over head wires.

But yes, there are cetainly metro systems that use overhead wires rather than 3rd rail, just as there are commuter and intercity rail that use 3rd rail instead of caternary. It just isn't as common.

[ssiguy]

Yes I do know the difference between the powering of DMU and EMU and interesting as I never knew there were commuter rails with 3rd rail. When you get that kind of thing I guess service frequency becomes more of an issue as to what it is characterized by.

I think, for those corridors in Toronto itself, a catenary subway would be better for the TTC than an EMU. Not only would people view it more as a subway but also they are superior for faster loading/unloading of passengers. This will be a fewer stop subway system but still will have more stops than GO and not all the trips are going to be that long with some being only a few km.

It would be probably easier to have them as catenary subways as Toronto doesn't currently have any EMU so would require fewer large and completely separate maintenance and control. Building a connection to one of the current yards with catenary and tracks would still be cheaper than building a whole new subway main/garage and finding the land to do it.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Yes I do know the difference between the powering of DMU and EMU and interesting as I never knew there were commuter rails with 3rd rail. When you get that kind of thing I guess service frequency becomes more of an issue as to what it is characterized by.

I think, for those corridors in Toronto itself, a catenary subway would be better for the TTC than an EMU. Not only would people view it more as a subway but also they are superior for faster loading/unloading of passengers. This will be a fewer stop subway system but still will have more stops than GO and not all the trips are going to be that long with some being only a few km.

It would be probably easier to have them as catenary subways as Toronto doesn't currently have any EMU so would require fewer large and completely separate maintenance and control. Building a connection to one of the current yards with catenary and tracks would still be cheaper than building a whole new subway main/garage and finding the land to do it.

Just to clarify, EMUs use overhead electrification as well - most modern passenger trains are EMUs, even TGVs etc. The Eurostar had something like 3 or 4 different power systems, including 3rd rail, and Thameslink and RER trains are capable of running on both 3rd rail and OHLE also.

I don't think calling the Go lines subway is very accurate - metro maybe but subway definitely implies underground. A new brand name would be useful, similar to Paris' RER, German S-Bahns and London's Crossrail. The strategy with the lines is definitely going in the right direction though.

[ssiguy]

Subway may mean underground for Torontonians but not the rest of the planet. Truth is that digging underground subways/metros is now more the exception than the rule. Except in downtown areas, most lines can easily be built at grade or elevated. The odd thing to me is that Torontonians seem to think subway has to be underground but there are large sections of Yonge/Spadina/Bloor/Danforth lines which are at grade and the sky hasn't fallen.

I think those corridors should not be a RER but rather run as a regular subway by the TTC.

[Innsertnamehere]

They aren't subways in any way whatsoever, I don't know where you are getting that impression. the 15 minute GO service will replicate euro express rail networks (RER in Paris, S-Bahn in Germany, etc.), which are very far from metro networks.

you are right that metro lines can run above ground (as large portions of Torontos metro network does), however the GO lines are not metro networks. It will be a network of high frequency urban passenger rail operating in mixed rail conditions. It will operate beside and with CN, CP, Via, and Amtrak. Its not a subway line, its an urban mixed rail line. Low platforms for compatibility with Via trains for the shared stations (Oshawa, Guildwood, Oakville, Aldershot, Brampton), 15 minute frequencies, overhead power delivery designed for mainline use, etc. It is absolutely not going to be a subway line. it'll serve a different purpose from that. It will be designed to move people quickly, to get people downtown in essentially an hour or less no matter where they are in the GTA. Fast trains, few stops, etc.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Subway may mean underground for Torontonians but not the rest of the planet. Truth is that digging underground subways/metros is now more the exception than the rule. Except in downtown areas, most lines can easily be built at grade or elevated. The odd thing to me is that Torontonians seem to think subway has to be underground but there are large sections of Yonge/Spadina/Bloor/Danforth lines which are at grade and the sky hasn't fallen.

I think those corridors should not be a RER but rather run as a regular subway by the TTC.

As much as I hate arguments over definitions, metros may be overground but subways definitely have to have an underground element. You are right though that Torontonians have a peculiar ignorance of rail systems other than their own, and absolutely the same level of service can be achieved above ground as below.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Subway may mean underground for Torontonians but not the rest of the planet. Truth is that digging underground subways/metros is now more the exception than the rule. Except in downtown areas, most lines can easily be built at grade or elevated. The odd thing to me is that Torontonians seem to think subway has to be underground but there are large sections of Yonge/Spadina/Bloor/Danforth lines which are at grade and the sky hasn't fallen.

I think those corridors should not be a RER but rather run as a regular subway by the TTC.

The rest of the planet doesn't even use the term subway. That's mostly American with a few little pockets outside that. Almost everywhere else uses the term "Metro" for a rapid transit system. In places where they do use subway, not all of a subway system is necessarily underground, but it's never applied to a system that is entirely above ground.

Besides, electrified mainline trains with 15 minute frequency all day is neither metro level or even RER/S-Bahn level. RER and major S-Bahn systems are much more frequent at peak times and only drop to that level at slow times of day. They're just commuter trains or urban express trains with frequency higher than typical North American commuter rail.

[The Chemist]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

The rest of the planet doesn't even use the term subway. That's mostly American with a few little pockets outside that. Almost everywhere else uses the term "Metro" for a rapid transit system. In places where they do use subway, not all of a subway system is necessarily underground, but it's never applied to a system that is entirely above ground.

They do use it in Beijing for the English name of the system, though the rest of China seems to use Metro for the same thing (even though the word they use in Chinese is the same regardless of the English translation).

Of course, then there's the London Underground, of which large portions most certainly are NOT underground.

[caltrane74]

New Renderings of Bloor GO/UP Express Station





This is a rendering from Pearson looking towards the UP Express Station



Union UP Express Station



From the Union Peason Express Facebook Page

[matt602]

Looking good. Too bad Dundas West station is a few blocks away though. Maybe one day an underground connection can be made to access all 3.

[Innsertnamehere]

There is a planned tunnel to connect them, but it needs to run through the parking garage of the crossways building between the two stations, and the owners refuse to cooperate. Its been a long, drawn out process of trying to get it built and constantly gets delayed.

[ssiguy]

Sad thing is that those pics are as busy as you are ever going to see the stations........only about 5,000 passengers a day are expected to take this stupid line.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

There is a planned tunnel to connect them, but it needs to run through the parking garage of the crossways building between the two stations, and the owners refuse to cooperate. Its been a long, drawn out process of trying to get it built and constantly gets delayed.

I would guess it's about compensation and loss of control over that portion of the property? Or are there other reasons?

[Innsertnamehere]

they don't want to lose the parking, is what it comes down to.

[WhipperSnapper]

Then go below the underground parking. Time to get it done.

[caltrane74]

More New Trains arriving from Japan.

Entry in port at South Carolina (Charleston), heading to Illinois for Assembly, then by rail to Toronto.

From Union Pearson Express





https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/h...45964862094558_7006441781046747130_o.jpg

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=84...203442&set=pcb.845966258761085&source=48

[GreaterMontréal]

Laval Tramway

...eleven streetcar lines in four phases, crisscrossing the entire island with links to Montreal, as a more cost-effective, environment-friendly alternative to extending the Laval Metro to connect with Côte Vertu station in St. Laurent.

http://robertfrankmedia.blogspot.ca/2013/07/bordeleau-slams-bureau-blouins-metro.html