PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[photoLith]

https://www.facebook.com/youngpreservati...583578/10152756857943578/?type=1&theater

[eschaton]

Honestly, Third Avenue has already been degraded into a glorified service alley. By my count, there are only four buildings which predominantly front on it.

1. Point Park's Patterson building. Although it has a different parcel/owner, it seems like it's essentially the back side of the Red Cross building on Boulevard of the Allies

2. The PITC building, which is right next to the demolished structure. Note it has a parking gap on its other side, meaning the block is not intact. Also it's connected to a building on Fourth Avenue, which has the same owners, so it's unclear if the two buildings are truly separate at this point.

3. This small and unremarkable office building. Looks like it might have been reskinned during the mid 20th century. I find it hard to believe it was born that ugly.

4. The Chinatown Inn's two buildings. Technically the second building runs all the way to Court Place, but it's clear that is considered the "alley side" by the business.

There are a few more buildings which mainly face on the next block (or around the corner) but have an attractive rear or side facade - in a few cases much more attractive where the front has been remuddled but the back is left untouched. Nonetheless, Third Avenue is for the most part not too different from Exchange Way these days, and does not have a reasonable chance of becoming a decent urban street again.

First Avenue is where area preservation should be focused.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

First Avenue is where area preservation should be focused.

First Ave. is one of my favorite downtown streets -- bizarre as that may seem. I love the quiet "alley" streets that are right in the middle/on the edge of it all... made up of smaller, livery and wharf style buildings.

Ever since Froggy's closed, that section of downtown has been really quiet. I've always thought that this stretch of First has so much potential for limited development into a really cool, laid-back, and functioning mix of apartments, bars/cafes, and the existing commercial office/light industrial space, due to its immediate proximity to the core of the Golden Triangle, the Point, Mon Wharf, and close access to Station Square and Southside. A lot of buildings have been torn down around there over the years... and I hope Point Park is kept at bay, because there's no doubt they will continue to try to expand their footprint and demolish many of these small, "incompatible" buildings in their way.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

First Ave. is one of my favorite downtown streets -- bizarre as that may seem. I love the quiet "alley" streets that are right in the middle/on the edge of it all... made up of smaller, livery and wharf style buildings.

Ever since Froggy's closed, that section of downtown has been really quiet. I've always thought that this stretch of First has so much potential for limited development into a really cool, laid-back, and functioning mix of apartments, bars/cafes, and the existing commercial office/light industrial space, due to its immediate proximity to the core of the Golden Triangle, the Point, Mon Wharf, and close access to Station Square and Southside. A lot of buildings have been torn down around there over the years... and I hope Point Park is kept at bay, because there's no doubt they will continue to try to expand their footprint and demolish many of these small, "incompatible" buildings in their way.

Obviously I agree. Point Park has basically ruined the 300 block of First Avenue, but the other three blocks are still fairly intact, and have a nice mix of lower-scale buildings. Particularly when you consider the substantial number of similar scale buildings which still exist along Market (and the bottom of Smithfield, although they are in a sorry state).

There are particularly development opportunities when you consider how Boulevard of the Allies and Fort Pitt Boulevard are lousy pedestrian streets. For example, historic buildings along Fort Pitt which don't extend to First Avenue could have rear additions put on, making the First Avenue side the choice exit for pedestrians. And Boulevard of the Allies parking craters can be filled in with highrises, with a smaller-scale side which fronts on First.

As an aside, why has this building been abandoned so long? It's beautiful, and in a prime location. Floor plates aren't ideal for office use, but you could easily turn it into a 5-6 unit condo.

Edit: I should note that judging from the overhead shots from the 1957, most of the parking craters along First were already there. Clearly a few more buildings have been demolished since then for larger-scale structures, but this isn't an area which has been rapidly vanishing, but one which has essentially been in stasis for 50+ years.

[AaronPGH]

Interesting to read the Portland vs. Pittsburgh comparison from the Portland point of view for once:

http://bikeportland.org/2014/09/17/pitts...ity-that-portland-wants-to-become-110941


Also, if you aren't subscribed to Adam Shuck's daily 'Eat That, Read This' email roundup of Pittsburgh development, politics, happenings, etc.... you really should be on it. His commentary is hilarious and he routinely manages to track down articles from all over that everyone misses. It's the highlight of my email day:

http://tinyletter.com/eatthatreadthis

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I've always thought that this stretch of First has so much potential for limited development into a really cool, laid-back, and functioning mix of apartments, bars/cafes, and the existing commercial office/light industrial space, due to its immediate proximity to the core of the Golden Triangle, the Point, Mon Wharf, and close access to Station Square and Southside. A lot of buildings have been torn down around there over the years... and I hope Point Park is kept at bay, because there's no doubt they will continue to try to expand their footprint and demolish many of these small, "incompatible" buildings in their way.

Completely agree. I see it as sort of Cultural District 2.0, just without all the high brow cultural stuff (some galleries and such might be cool), and maybe a little more laid back as you suggest. I'd specifically love to see sensitive renovation and infill with smaller, less-expensive apartments, limited service hotels, and so forth. I don't think Downtown is ever going to be cheap, but this could be the more affordable side of town and yet still very lively and attractive. And I agree Point Park is a big threat to all that.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

As an aside, why has this building been abandoned so long? It's beautiful, and in a prime location. Floor plates aren't ideal for office use, but you could easily turn it into a 5-6 unit condo.

I always think the same thing when I walk past. But I sort of wonder that about the whole area--isn't it time people pay more attention to this area a skip and a jump from Market Square?

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I always think the same thing when I walk past. But I sort of wonder that about the whole area--isn't it time people pay more attention to this area a skip and a jump from Market Square?

I think it's due to its situation that it has largely been ignored... between the Blvd. of Allies and Ft. Pitt Blvd/376... it's really hemmed in by major thoroughfares and it is walled off at Grant by a 376 entry ramp.

As for your comparisons with the Cultural District... yes, I fully agree and was going to mention that in my initial post. Definitely on a MUCH smaller and quieter scale obviously.

[Evergrey]

Some of the superfluous lanes on Blvd of the Allies should be converted to bike lanes... a less harsh Blvd would really help out the "FirstSide" section of Downtown.

[Evergrey]

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/6819533-74/hotel-concord-mcgraw

'First-class' hotel planned in Oakland

By The Tribune-Review
Thursday, Sept. 18, 2014, 12:03 p.m.
Updated 1 hour ago


A North Carolina developer is planning to build a high-end hotel on a large parking lot behind the Pittsburgh Athletic Association's iconic club in Oakland, a local partner with the firm said Thursday.

“It would be a first-class, full-service hotel. This is an iconic location,” said Keith McGraw of Sewickley, a partner with Concord Hospitality Enterprise Co. of Raleigh, N.C.

McGraw said the association's board voted Tuesday to grant a 99-year lease to Concord. Board President John Freyvogel III did not return a call, and several board members declined comment. The lease deal hinges on Concord moving forward with the development, McGraw said.

McGraw said the developers haven't selected a hotel brand. He said the four-star luxury hotel would sit on top of a parking garage. It's unknown how many hotel rooms or parking spaces might be developed.

...

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I always think the same thing when I walk past. But I sort of wonder that about the whole area--isn't it time people pay more attention to this area a skip and a jump from Market Square?

I'm pretty sure they finished turning that three-story building on the corner of First and Market into a mix of condos and apartments, so there clearly is some interest in refurbishing some of the smaller buildings down there.

It's sort of remarkable how little residential activity there is down there. I mean, there's that big ugly condo building down closer to the point, but besides that, not much. I think only one of the Firstside block is a condo, and there's that one near where the new hotel is going to go. There may be two buildings down near Smithfield which have a few apartments in them. Plus of course the Point Park dorms.

IMHO though, the area needs more residents yet. A few commercial ventures (that Thai place closed right?) will follow once there's enough evening foot traffic. But there's just too few offices on that side of town to bump up demand.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Interesting to read the Portland vs. Pittsburgh comparison from the Portland point of view for once

Very interesting. My brother now lives in Portland, and on some visits to Pittsburgh, we have walked around Downtown Pittsburgh. He always comments Portland really has nothing like it.

What I have noticed in visits the other way is that they do have is a lot of early 20th Century neighborhoods that remind me of our neighborhoods from the same era. More wood construction and less brick, but otherwise very familiar-feeling.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I think it's due to its situation that it has largely been ignored... between the Blvd. of Allies and Ft. Pitt Blvd/376... it's really hemmed in by major thoroughfares and it is walled off at Grant by a 376 entry ramp.

Maybe it is just me, but I don't find BoA to be that big of a barrier. I wouldn't necessarily want to live right on it, but in terms of just walking past, I don't find it an issue.

That said, I recall at one point, Point Park was proposing turning a good chunk of it into a true boulevard with a median strip and such. People have also talked over time about possible bus lanes and bike lanes. Stuff like that could make it a lot more pleasant. (edit: and I see Evergrey made the same point in the next post)

[AaronPGH]

The Oakland hotel...... reboot of the W plans for the area near CMU maybe?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

'First-class' hotel planned in Oakland

Cool. That is a deeply irksome surface parking lot, and a great place for a hotel. Personally, I would also love to see Pittsburgh get a new luxury hotel brand (meaning one not yet represented here).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

IMHO though, the area needs more residents yet. A few commercial ventures (that Thai place closed right?) will follow once there's enough evening foot traffic. But there's just too few offices on that side of town to bump up demand.

Agreed, although I think hotels would work too.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Agreed, although I think hotels would work too.

Yeah. The new hotel, IIRC, is going to be pretty small though. And honestly with the crazy number of hotels in the works over the next 1-2 years, I have to wonder if we're going see a slowdown soon. Just counting the projects I know about in the works, I can think of four downtown, plus one in the lower strip and one on the North Shore. We may not actually fill all the unmet demand, but soon developers may want to wait out the current rush of projects and see how vacancy levels look.

Not to mention, there's only really one place to build a big hotel on First Avenue without knocking down anything. Some of the old office buildings (e.g., Four Smithfield Street) might be nice conversions though.

[BrianTH]

I'm no expert on the hotel market so take this for what it is worth. But what I still see as an unsatisfied need Downtown is smaller, less expensive, limited-service hotels of the sorts I tend to favor when we travel to expensive cities (and if we are not using vacation rental apartments). There can actually be quite a range in this sort of market, anything from simple inns and B&Bs to rather swank "boutique" hotels. But when you compare equally nice rooms/locations with bigger hotels, you should see savings because you are not paying for a lot of on-site amenities and services.

Anyway, that is sort of what I see filling into First Side. And that Fort Pitt Holiday Inn seems like a fine start.

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Who is the loading dock for? Point Park University?

It's not a Point Park project. Apparently the owner of Commonwealth Trust building intended to apply for a demolition permit. He was talked out of that and will now renovate the building. The portion torn down, which was built in the '40s as the parking entrance, is to be rebuilt as the service entrance/loading dock for the Fourth Avenue building but will have occupied floors above.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

It's not a Point Park project. Apparently the owner of Commonwealth Trust building intended to apply for a demolition permit. He was talked out of that and will now renovate the building. The portion torn down, which was built in the '40s as the parking entrance, is to be rebuilt as the service entrance/loading dock for the Fourth Avenue building but will have occupied floors above.

Is that E.V. Bishoff? (sp?)