Hamilton Waterfront

[Beedok]

The wall should be along the lakeshore.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Beedok

The wall should be along the lakeshore.

Where.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Yeah, a couple towers would be nice, as long as it doesn't emulate the disaster that is Toronto's waterfront. 26 storeys is excessive, though and I'm not sure why it has to be 26 exactly. Would 25 be okay?

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by ScreamingViking

Where.

Out Stoney Creek way between the shore and the highway. There's lots of room for intensification out there. The Bayliners are already out there as precedent for highrises.

[king10]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Yeah, a couple towers would be nice, as long as it doesn't emulate the disaster that is Toronto's waterfront. 26 storeys is excessive, though and I'm not sure why it has to be 26 exactly. Would 25 be okay?

Why do the towers in Toronto make the waterfront a disaster? Do you suggest the same for Chicago and New York's waterfront?

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Out Stoney Creek way between the shore and the highway. There's lots of room for intensification out there. The Bayliners are already out there as precedent for highrises.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=43.239263,-79.720123&spn=0.011489,0.026157&t=h&z=16

I believe this land has been slated for development for a long time, and for one reason or another it's yet to happen. It is the largest empty parcel along that stretch of the lakeshore in Hamilton and could fit a number of new buildings.

But New Horizon Homes (builders of City Square and the condo at Aberdeen & Dundurn) has advertised a development for it called Waterfront Trails in the March edition of their sales magazine (p.14-15). It's not on their website yet, though the magazine notes "Coming soon" (which could mean anything until we see a sales centre). Also from the magazine: "The Waterfront Trails neighbourhood will have a fashionable lakeside condo, an intimate woodland trail condo, as well as two and three-storey towns." It also notes enhancing the waterfront and improving the trails, creating parks, keeping the woodlots... and the shoreline condo is described as being 4-storeys tall.

Does anyone know more about this development? I didn't see a thread about it on the forum.

EDIT: the June 2013 subdivision map for Stoney Creek lists it as draft approved... "Green Millen Shore Estates" will have 148 apartment units and 127 townhouses. The lots facing North Service Rd. are green space and "completed registered", though nothing has been built there yet.
http://www.hamilton.ca/CityDepartments/P...ngAnalysis/subdivision-and-condomaps.htm

[Dr Awesomesauce]

Originally Posted by king10

Why do the towers in Toronto make the waterfront a disaster? Do you suggest the same for Chicago and New York's waterfront?

Chicago's waterfront is the envy of many North American cities - parks, beaches, etc as far as the eye can see. Toronto's, on the other hand, is a curtain of concrete and glass. They did it wrong and they know it.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Out Stoney Creek way between the shore and the highway. There's lots of room for intensification out there. The Bayliners are already out there as precedent for highrises.

It has already been rejected and the last piece of developable land is going to be single family homes and townhouses. Just another lost opportunity to get more people closer to the water.

[masterwhite]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

Yeah, a couple towers would be nice, as long as it doesn't emulate the disaster that is Toronto's waterfront. 26 storeys is excessive, though and I'm not sure why it has to be 26 exactly. Would 25 be okay?

26 floors seems to be the limit in Hamilton (actually 25 because of the stupid thing of no 13th floor) with only 2 building being 43 and 33 floors in the entire city.

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[palace1]

Originally Posted by MeIsThomas

[SIZE="3"]The site was zoned for 13 high-rise buildings in the 70's, but only 2 were built. It's a shame the site is going to be wasted for townhomes, you could fit a neighbourhood similar to downtown Burlington on the site.

Does anyone know why the site was downsized from 13 high-rise buildings to only 127 townhouse units and 148 apartments?

According to the IBI Group website
http://www.ibigroup.com/projects/green-millen-shore-estates
"The 13.66 ha site represented the largest piece of urban waterfront from Kingston to Niagara and resulted in the dedication of over 500 m of waterfront to the City for a multi-use trail along with 4.88 ha of Environmentally Sensitive Area for preservation."

There was obviously a fight between city and developer to get the waterfront and ESA land donated so why not more height/units?

[movingtohamilton]

Today's Business section of the Toronto Star has a feature on Hamilton's Waterfront. It certainly paints a rosy picture of the future, if developments proceed.

If we elect some politicians with smarts and vision, we might just have a waterfront that's not like how Toronto's ended up.

I'll leave it to you long-time Hamiltonians to debate the merits of the article.

http://www.thestar.com/business/2014/08/..._next_great_frontier.html?app=noRedirect

[movingtohamilton]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Hamilton north-end group takes waterfront decisions to OMB
(CBC Hamilton, Samantha Craggs, Apr 4 2014)

"A group of north-end residents will battle the city at the Ontario Municipal Board (OMB) to stop a plan that includes new commercial buildings along the bay front, and a parking garage tucked under a city park.

The North End Neighbours (NEN) say they weren’t consulted when the city adapted a new zoning bylaw for the west harbour. The zoning bylaw includes four businesses — a “power centre,” as the NEN calls it — at the foot of James Street.

The NEN are concerned about the power centre, as well as a plan to put a 400-vehicle car park at Bayview Park, with the park being located on top of the garage. But the group is primarily upset that it wasn’t consulted on any of this...

Have there been any developments on this since April?

[thistleclub]

Hamilton looks to its waterfront as next great frontier
Two redevelopment sites expected to draw interest from Toronto condo developers
(Toronto Star, Susan Pigg, Aug 19 2014)

Excerpt:

The City of Hamilton is now in the final stages of preparing one of the last major stretches of urban waterfront in Southern Ontario — more than 18 hectares over two sprawling sites — for redevelopment.

In all, the city will spend about $39 million to transform two bayfront sites, some $13 million of that just in roads, sidewalks, sewers and other infrastructure to make the so-called West Harbour area in the city’s once-busy shipping port shovel-ready, says Chris Phillips, head of waterfront redevelopment for the city.

That $500 million, 10-hectare redevelopment is slated to include 1,600 residential units in condo towers no more than eight storeys high, as well as 13,000 square feet of retail, hotel and other commercial space aimed at creating a Halifax-style shopping, eating and living hub on edge of Hamilton Harbour, but within easy walking distance of the transforming downtown.

In time, the existing marine warehouses will likely be converted into shops and restaurants. And the 350-slip marina is slated to double in size with the aim of bringing people — and life — to a stretch of Hamilton waterfront that, until just a decade or so ago, was basically a no-go zone unless you were a member of the sailing or yacht club.

It will remain, in parts to the east of the site, very much a working port, with what steel factories remain continuing to belch smoke in the way that Redpath Sugar on Toronto’s waterfront unloads ships full of sugar in view of pricey waterfront condos.

As if the West Harbour revitalization plan wasn’t ambitious enough for a city relatively new to the condo development game, the City of Hamilton is determined to go to market at the very same time with another major waterfront-area project.

The so-called Barton-Tiffany lands are on a former industrial site that was originally acquired by the city for its Pan Am Games stadium.

Now that the facility is being built elsewhere, the city has proposed a new, eight-hectare live-work community in its place. The proposed condo towers, which have been scaled back to a maximum of eight storeys, would be steps from the city’s new GO Train station. The new neighbourhood would also connect via a pedestrian bridge, waterfront walkways and bike paths to the popular Bayfront Park area and the West Harbour redevelopment site just to the northeast.

For simplicity’s sake, think of the West Harbour site as a much smaller, and far less dense, version of Toronto’s mixed use, but predominantly residential, Harbourfront area — as much a place for downtown workers and downsizing baby boomers to live as a destination for locals and tourists.

The Barton-Tiffany lands could be likened to Toronto’s railway lands development: CN Rail shunting lines, as well as the main CN and GO Train tracks, now run along the shoreline at the north end of site. That means any condo, office or retail development would simply overlook the harbour rather than be right on the water.

There are hopes that, in time, many of those rail lines will be moved elsewhere, with the exception of the main CN and GO lines, says Phillips, allowing residents of the new neighbourhood, on what are now overgrown blocks of razed former factories, easier access to the developing waterfront.

“This really is one of those blank canvases — a landmark setting, adjacent to a downtown, where you can really make a statement,” says Phillips.

The city expects to seek requests for proposals from developers in the next year or so and hopes to see the bulk of construction underway by 2018.


Read it in full here.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

I do wonder how that rail yard would get moved. It would require a massive handout from all levels of government, I'd imagine. They should be cautious with development until that gets sorted many years from now.

Pier 8 is more of a slam dunk at this point.

[block43]

Here is the plan for the middle part of the waterfront... www.hamilton.ca/waterfront-plan

[durandy]

Originally Posted by Dr Awesomesauce

I do wonder how that rail yard would get moved. It would require a massive handout from all levels of government, I'd imagine. They should be cautious with development until that gets sorted many years from now.

Pier 8 is more of a slam dunk at this point.

not while the north end nimbies are opposed to anything that's not a reflective pool or, possible, art installation (so long as unobtrusive). They'd even oppose that if it wasn't properly referred through the NEN, which believes it is the only voice of the neighbourhood.

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[SteelTown]

LETTER: Bratina's idea for west harbour railway yards

http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/4862950-letter-bratina-s-idea-for-west-harbour-railway-yards/

The need to deal with the west harbour railway yards has never received the attention it deserves. The last good relocation opportunity was lost when council approved the rezoning of the Waxman lands on Centennial Parkway North for a shopping centre. Currently, we're spending over $10 million dollars to provide better access to that property, with the side benefit of providing rail infrastructure for all-day GO train service to Stoney Creek and east.

With no other sites available, the best and quickest solution is to build a deck over the entire yard and part of the Barton-Tiffany lands. This is actually being done right now in New York City in a project called Hudson Yards, which will cover over a Long Island Railroad 30-track commuter train storage yard. Interestingly, the project emerged after the failed New York Olympic bid, which called for a stadium over the yards, similar to our Commonwealth Stadium proposal back in 2003 for the 2010 Games. Further, we have in Hamilton the expertise required to build the deck structure, whose crucial element is the caissons or foundation pilings that would hold the thing up.

The New York project will see the construction of three skyscrapers over the 26-acre site totalling six million square feet. Ours would be much smaller in scale, but to make the financing work for such a project, some consideration would have to be made for the height of the structures built on the deck. One side benefit would be the reduced requirement for contamination cleanup if the ground level south of Stuart Street was used for parking. Projects of this scale and transformational effect would attract international interest, and could start with a modest investment by the city in a design charrette.


Mayor Bob Bratina, Hamilton

[mattgrande]

Love that he's throwing out the big ideas when he's two months from the end of the term.