Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by rsxstock

Vancouver is not building eastward any time soon. there are still many undeveloped and redevelopment opportunities in the core and tricities that there's no reason to build so far out

Are you kidding me?

Nearly all the growth of Vancouver is happening east of NuWest......Surrey, Langley, Cloverdale etc and to the north in PM & MR. Densification is great if you want to live in a shoebox but for those who actually want a house, the Valley is the only financial option.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Are you kidding me?

Nearly all the growth of Vancouver is happening east of NuWest......Surrey, Langley, Cloverdale etc and to the north in PM & MR. Densification is great if you want to live in a shoebox but for those who actually want a house, the Valley is the only financial option.

Can you please stop referring to apartments as shoe boxes? Lots of people choose to live in them because they want to, not because they're cheaper.

[usog]

Skytrain has been bunching up like crazy between Broadway and Waterfront, feels like it's gotten worse lately. I spent more than five minutes on a train waiting to pull into waterfront from Burrard last week.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The other thing re: commuter rail in Metro Vancouver, is that our commuting patterns are not all "in and out of the downtown core" like many head office cities - it's much more spread out than that.

****************

Big Bend may finally be getting a bus.

Article from 24hrs:

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/09/14/burnaby-has-huge-transit-gap


http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/09/14/burnaby-has-huge-transit-gap

Its worth it to at least run a community shuttle down there!

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Can you please stop referring to apartments as shoe boxes? Lots of people choose to live in them because they want to, not because they're cheaper.

No kidding. I'd hate to have to take care of an entire house on my own, or at least have to worry about hiring people to do it for me.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by usog

Skytrain has been bunching up like crazy between Broadway and Waterfront, feels like it's gotten worse lately. I spent more than five minutes on a train waiting to pull into waterfront from Burrard last week.

its that train to main thing...

[ssiguy]

Fair enough but doesn't change what I was saying.

The overwhelming majority of growth in Metro will be eastwards as it offers affordable housing and housing options that the older suburbs and city don't. Vancouver being located in a far tip of a basic peninsula shape makes commutes abnormally long for a city it's size. Expanding SkyTrain ever further is nice but expensive and due to the distance still is quite a commute. Also SkyTrain, like all rapid transit systems, has it's limitation and even expanded stations are going to fill up.......the trains will be packed by the time they get to Surrey Centre.

Vancouver should be looking at the Langley/Newton/Scott Road/Lougheed/Broadway/Waterfront rail corridor for more long term commuter rail needs. WCE has OK ridership but certainly couldn't be described as a run away success but the population it serves is far smaller than SoF. MR/PM only have about 100k combined while N.Delta/Surrey/Langley/WR is nearing 700,000. The Tri-cities are more populace but riders there have other options and drivers don't have to worry about paying for bridges.

The new Patulla and Massey are going to be tolled so with the exception of the terminally packed Alex Fraser, getting to Vancouver is getting damn expensive for anyone SoF. Just the savings from the tolls would help motivate people onto the trains as remember the new bridge to MR/PM is NOT a toll bridge. In other words WCE doesn't serve any areas with road tolls while a Fraser Valley route serves areas with nearly all tolls meaning the higher fare for the commuter rail will be off set by not paying road tolls. That's a damn big incentive to take the train.

Seeing the Patulla is going to be tolled but not have any more traffic capacity than it does now then people SoF should get affordable alternatives such as a commuter rail.

[rsxstock]

sure housing is more affordable out there but you'll have to deal with the cost and stress of travel if you work near the core. there is no reason for growth to move so far eastward when housing just outside of vancouver like burnaby or richmond is quite affordable. burnaby for example has only recently ramped up condo construction and there are still plenty of opportunities. do remember that there is also the option in renting which is arguably affordable as well.

[MIPS]

As much as I am iffy about our beloved SkyTrain not seeing expansion for the valley the cars available from Bombardier and all existing stations are simply not designed for very long distances and the cost to upgrade them to do so would make it completely impractical. You also run into logical questions because as the city thins out it opens to fields where running elevated makes no sense at all and at grade causes major divisions of regions. I'm almost tempted to say the SkyTrain can reach Langley/South Surrey and that's it. Build a transfer hub for rapid bus/SkyTrain and regular buses and run more conventional heavy commuter rail on new or existing lines and let those span out as far as Chilliwack or even Hope. You would need to have a decent amount of overlap with the existing SkyTrain station as to prevent a complete swampage of the system.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by MIPS

As much as I am iffy about our beloved SkyTrain not seeing expansion for the valley the cars available from Bombardier and all existing stations are simply not designed for very long distances and the cost to upgrade them to do so would make it completely impractical. You also run into logical questions because as the city thins out it opens to fields where running elevated makes no sense at all and at grade causes major divisions of regions. I'm almost tempted to say the SkyTrain can reach Langley/South Surrey and that's it. Build a transfer hub for rapid bus/SkyTrain and regular buses and run more conventional heavy commuter rail on new or existing lines and let those span out as far as Chilliwack or even Hope. You would need to have a decent amount of overlap with the existing SkyTrain station as to prevent a complete swampage of the system.

Why do you say the cars are not designed for long distances? All they'd need is better seats.

[DKaz]

The Bombardier Skytrains tend to be very noisy and also transfer a lot of vibration and harshness into the passenger cabin. The MK2 and 2.5s are a bit better with noise levels only steps below the heavy rail Canada Line trains but you can tell the Canada Line trains are a lot better at absorbing vibration and harshness which leads to a much more comfortable ride.

Then you take the Bombardier Bilevel trains which are well insulated from outside noise and have even better isolation from vibration and harshness. But then you get these cliques within the West Coast Express community that have formed over the years and they can get quite noisy chatting away with each other.

When I rode the O-Train years back, I noticed they were quite comfortable. A Canada Line like ride with a bit better noise insulation. Likely a lot cheaper to purchase and run than the Bilevel cars. We should definitely go with these trains if the Interurban ever gets revitalized.

[WarrenC12]

The Canada Line is more comfortable, but the track screeching around the corners is the worst part of the rapid transit system by far.

I ride the Expo line from Waterfront to Surrey a few times a week, so a pretty lengthy trip. It's just fine. It would be even better cranked up to ~100 km/h on longer straight section like what we'd see if it ran out to the valley.

[MIPS]

At the end of the day the Innovia ART design is still based on the original Intermediate Capacity Transit System. The particular style that the SkyTrain uses has always been designed on the assumption that passengers won't be on the train for long periods (Metrotown to Waterfront for example) but when you start separating stations by 10km+ the need for sitting space outweighs the need for standing space. Consider how much on the West Coast Express is standing only. The Mk II's are also too narrow for better seating arrangements, plus they still have various electronics nested away under the central seating. They're just not designed for a system being proposed to serve the valley unless you are running a LOT of trains to keep up with demand and you simply could not allow them into the Expo Line past Scott Road or you're going to overburden the original stretch from Columbia and Waterfront.

It would be even better cranked up to ~100 km/h on longer straight section like what we'd see if it ran out to the valley.

Mk I's apparently had their speeds reduced on straight stretches in the late 80's due to excessive cabin wobble. I'm not sure if the later trains rectified this issue.

[st7860]

I noticed that the MK 2 and 2.5 cars smell better than the Canada Line. (the Canada line air conditioning systems cycles on and off too much. The Bombardier cars do that as well, but at least when they are not actively cooling or heating, they still keep the fans running.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by st7860

I noticed that the MK 2 and 2.5 cars smell better than the Canada Line. (the Canada line air conditioning systems cycles on and off too much. The Bombardier cars do that as well, but at least when they are not actively cooling or heating, they still keep the fans running.

Yes! The Canada Line smells terrible. Stale air. Keep the a/c at least circulating all the time.

[Steveston]

IMO the solution lies not in transit infrastructure, but in land use. If, due to the long, narrow shape of the commuting corridor, it puts excessive strain on the 'main lines', then the objective must be to reduce the concentration of employment at one end of the corridor.

We have to dramatically increase the size of the employment nodes along the lines (Richmond/YVR, Metrotown/Edmonds, Surrey, etc.) so that a lower percentage of the rides are 'end to end', and more are counterflow during the peak hours.

Better utilization of infrastructure, less need to keep expanding capacity, and better distribution of jobs.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yes! The Canada Line smells terrible. Stale air. Keep the a/c at least circulating all the time.

I don't even have OCD. ie: of course on public transit you can expect that some people don't shower. But still. the canada line is gross sometimes because there isn't a fan thats always on. even the old mark 1 bombardier cars at least have a fan running at all times.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by DKaz

The Bombardier Skytrains tend to be very noisy and also transfer a lot of vibration and harshness into the passenger cabin. The MK2 and 2.5s are a bit better with noise levels only steps below the heavy rail Canada Line trains but you can tell the Canada Line trains are a lot better at absorbing vibration and harshness which leads to a much more comfortable ride.

IMHO any difference in ride quality is tiny compared to the vastly more pleasant experience of the elevated view compared to being stuck in a subterranean tunnel. And the elevated guideway doesn't reflect all the train noise back into the cabin.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by st7860

I don't even have OCD. ie: of course on public transit you can expect that some people don't shower. But still. the canada line is gross sometimes because there isn't a fan thats always on. even the old mark 1 bombardier cars at least have a fan running at all times.

They have open windows, which helps a lot. Makes me want to open the windows on the Canada Line trains.

I've already sent a complaint in to Translink, I recommend more people do the same.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by st7860

I don't even have OCD.

I have CDO. That's OCD but with the letters in alphabetical order the way they're supposed to be.