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  #1  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 11:53 AM
CongoJack CongoJack is offline
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Ottawa as a Hockey Market

Came across this in the citizen:

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hock...gh-melnyk-says

Melnyk says that Ottawa fans are sensitive to price changes. Is it that Ottawa lacks a critical mass of wealthy people who can afford $500 tickets? Or is it cultural?

Last edited by CongoJack; Sep 17, 2014 at 1:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 1:22 PM
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It's also that the largest employer in the region (the Federal Government) cannot buy tickets, bring clients, or give tickets away to staff. This means Ottawa really lacks the corporate sales of suites/box-seats that every other team around the league has. I believe Ottawa ranks 29/30 for corporate seat sales.
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  #3  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 1:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MountainView View Post
It's also that the largest employer in the region (the Federal Government) cannot buy tickets, bring clients, or give tickets away to staff. This means Ottawa really lacks the corporate sales of suites/box-seats that every other team around the league has. I believe Ottawa ranks 29/30 for corporate seat sales.
I believe all of that is true, although the corporate seat numbers certainly fluctuate year to year.

When people talk about Ottawa as a hockey market, they often forget the success of the 67s and Olympiques, both of whom are extremely solid franchises. There isn't another metro area in Canada that supports an NHL team plus two major junior teams.
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Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 2:10 PM
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To be fair, Toronto has the Marlies and Steelheads, though Mississauga seems to struggle to support a team. On the whole though, you have a point. All three teams are stable, which is more than can be said for Toronto. Otherwise, I don't think any other metro has three teams in the major junior or above tiers.
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  #5  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
I believe all of that is true, although the corporate seat numbers certainly fluctuate year to year.

When people talk about Ottawa as a hockey market, they often forget the success of the 67s and Olympiques, both of whom are extremely solid franchises. There isn't another metro area in Canada that supports an NHL team plus two major junior teams.
The out of the way location of CTC has to be a big boost to these 2 franchises.
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  #6  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 2:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jeremy_haak View Post
To be fair, Toronto has the Marlies and Steelheads, though Mississauga seems to struggle to support a team. On the whole though, you have a point. All three teams are stable, which is more than can be said for Toronto. Otherwise, I don't think any other metro has three teams in the major junior or above tiers.
Yeah, good point. I wasn't thinking about the AHL.

It does remain to be seen whether those teams are viable. Mississauga's attendance is a constant problem. The Marlies have done better lately, but not sure of their long term prospects.

I guess I should have said that Ottawa is the only market to have two solid major junior teams.
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  #7  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 2:53 PM
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Originally Posted by YOWetal View Post
The out of the way location of CTC has to be a big boost to these 2 franchises.
Yep, it is no coincidence that they both play in central locations and both do well.
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  #8  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 3:13 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CongoJack View Post
Came across this in the citizen:

http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hock...gh-melnyk-says

Melnyk says that Ottawa fans are sensitive to price changes. Is it that Ottawa lacks a critical mass of wealthy people who can afford $500 tickets? Or is it cultural?
It is at least partly cultural. Middle-class Ottawans are about as economically secure as one can get, but they are famously careful about their spending. As in, they know how to squeeze a nickel until the beaver sh*ts!
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  #9  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 3:29 PM
c_speed3108 c_speed3108 is offline
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Yep, it is no coincidence that they both play in central locations and both do well.
..and the 67's had a nice test last year due to the lansdowne construction. The attendance at the CTC was terrible.



The thing with the Ottawa market is there is a ton of people with very good incomes in pretty secure jobs. What Ottawa doesn't have is many people in really high incomes.

You can sell a lot of average to slightly above average tickets here. Think 200-300 level stuff. You just can't make a ton of easy big corporate sales. It is more of the slow grind: seat by seat sales to individuals. You need to deliver value and a good experience.


It's the same reason in Ottawa big box anything does pretty well and stuff like Holts closes. There is shit loads of money to be spent in Ottawa - at a certain level - and that level isn't the high end stuff for the most part.
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  #10  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 3:31 PM
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It is at least partly cultural. Middle-class Ottawans are about as economically secure as one can get, but they are famously careful about their spending. As in, they know how to squeeze a nickel until the beaver sh*ts!
This article was frustrating to read after Melnyk just cashed in on not 1 but 2 major media contracts. A local one with TSN and his part of the Rogers national deal.

Melnyk just doesn't have the unlimited funds anymore and it's this reason more than any why we are hearing him say this.

That being said, while attendance is very good, the biggest complaint I hear is location. I agree that Ottawans are somewhat frugal, but the traffic is by far the biggest reason I hear for not going.

A casino next to the CTC would have solidified the franchise, and its advertising and corporate revenue streams. The 2 businesses are so complimentary. Hitting the casino and betting on the sens game then going to watch it live would appeal to many.

Sadly, melnyk and Watson have been fighting and I think a lot of it had to do with Landsdowne though this is never publicly stated.
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  #11  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 3:57 PM
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Originally Posted by daud View Post
This article was frustrating to read after Melnyk just cashed in on not 1 but 2 major media contracts. A local one with TSN and his part of the Rogers national deal.

Melnyk just doesn't have the unlimited funds anymore and it's this reason more than any why we are hearing him say this.

That being said, while attendance is very good, the biggest complaint I hear is location. I agree that Ottawans are somewhat frugal, but the traffic is by far the biggest reason I hear for not going.

A casino next to the CTC would have solidified the franchise, and its advertising and corporate revenue streams. The 2 businesses are so complimentary. Hitting the casino and betting on the sens game then going to watch it live would appeal to many.

Sadly, melnyk and Watson have been fighting and I think a lot of it had to do with Landsdowne though this is never publicly stated.
Good point about the huge broadcast contracts. Melnyk seems intent on using the franchise (which is pretty clearly profitable and has definitely increased in value quite dramatically), to fund his other ventures.

Not sure about a casino 25 km from where the vast majority of tourists and business travellers stay. We've made a mistake with the arena, I don't know about reinforcing that mistake by putting more attractions out there.
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  #12  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 4:24 PM
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Not sure about a casino 25 km from where the vast majority of tourists and business travellers stay. We've made a mistake with the arena, I don't know about reinforcing that mistake by putting more attractions out there.
I agree the opinions as it relates to casino locations are all over the map as a separate discussion and 2 wrongs don't make something right.

But...Sports and Gambling go hand in hand though-like chocolate and peanut butter. Any casino there with new games and ways of betting on sports could have sent attendance and traffic (and traffic) through the roof. Done right it could have worked better than any casino that currently exists in Canada. IMHO. But I do see the arguments against a casino altogether or one downtown. Back to the Sens, I really wish they would make a move to Lebreton though I guess that's not very likely.
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  #13  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 4:27 PM
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Back to the Sens, I really wish they would make a move to Lebreton though I guess that's not very likely.
When the current arena reaches the end of its life span, I think you will see efforts to move downtown, or somewhere central like Hurdman as part of a mega-development. Unfortunately that is still 20 years off.
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  #14  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 4:47 PM
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But its quite possible that with redevelopment there won't be many spaces left in the central area in 20 years. So we need to have this discussion now and if necessary reserve space somewhere.
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  #15  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 5:04 PM
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But its quite possible that with redevelopment there won't be many spaces left in the central area in 20 years. So we need to have this discussion now and if necessary reserve space somewhere.
Agreed. The City should always have an eye on sites for major civic facilities, which would include the arena.

I wouldn't expect that Hurdman will be developed soon, unless it is part of a large-scale project with a big centrepiece like an arena.
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  #16  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 5:46 PM
Fatty McButterpants Fatty McButterpants is offline
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When the current arena reaches the end of its life span, I think you will see efforts to move downtown, or somewhere central like Hurdman as part of a mega-development. Unfortunately that is still 20 years off.
Come on now, you and I both know that's when it's reno time. A dab of paint here, some new fixtures there and Bob's your uncle
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  #17  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 6:02 PM
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Come on now, you and I both know that's when it's reno time. A dab of paint here, some new fixtures there and Bob's your uncle
Do you just lie in wait all day?
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  #18  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 6:47 PM
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Come on now, you and I both know that's when it's reno time. A dab of paint here, some new fixtures there and Bob's your uncle
Different story. The general consensus is that Lansdowne is a good place for an arena. When you're rebuilding in the same spot, renovations are more attractive than a rebuild. But with the Senators their existing arena is in an atrocious location and pretty much everyone agrees.
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  #19  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 11:53 PM
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Pro sports can't, and shouldn't, depend on government ticket sales

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: September 17, 2014, Last Updated: September 17, 2014 7:42 PM EDT


When Eugene Melnyk bought the bankrupt Ottawa Senators in 2003, senior public servants regularly dined at some of the region’s finest restaurants, expensing tabs for hundreds of dollars. Provincial government agencies bought golf club memberships, and Hydro Ottawa had its own Senators’ corporate box.

Those were the days, my friend!

Well, not for you and me — we just footed the bills — but for many already bringing in comfortable salaries in the bureaucracy, luxe lunches and gratis sporting events were par for the course. Thankfully, however, our concept of the responsible uses of public funds and appropriate behaviour of public servants has changed dramatically over the past decade.

The demand for more transparency and accountability at every level of government has resulted in a culture shift for the better. No one can honestly believe federal bureaucrats needed to spend $140 of taxpayers’ money to do their jobs. But that doesn’t mean there hasn’t been collateral damage from the changes in practice.

Clair de Lune and Café Henry Burger closed in the mid-2000s partly due to an expense-account scandal that ignited closer examination of how some senior federal public servants spent tax dollars.

Also hurt by our demands for more responsible spending of public money is the Ottawa Senators.

Or so says Melnyk, who this week told Toronto radio station Sportsnet 590 that “selling tickets is particularly difficult in Ottawa because the city’s two biggest employers — the federal and municipal government — are not permitted to purchase tickets … or give tickets.”

Nor, he should have added, can the employees of the city’s two largest employers accept tickets from the few corporations who do buy tickets.

Indeed, the City of Ottawa’s auditor general launched an investigation in 2007 after it was reported that a waste-management company looking to make controversial changes to a landfill gave Stanley Cup playoff tickets to senior bureaucrats.

To be fair to Melnyk, he wasn’t arguing that governments should start buying tickets. But he’s right.

Consider that in 2011, Mayor Jim Watson was “very unhappy” with the revelation that Hydro Ottawa — which is wholly owned by the city — had purchased $28,450 worth of Senators tickets in 2010-11 even while it was trying to hike hydro rates to cover what it said were increasing business costs. Watson ordered the practice stopped immediately.

It’s not that a city such as Ottawa can’t carry professional sports. Glen Hodgson, the chief economist for the Conference Board of Canada and co-author of the sports-economy book Power Play, believes the capital is large enough to support the Sens and the Redblacks, but only if you factor in the 1.3 million people in the entire Ottawa-Gatineau region.

But making it work is really hard — and we haven’t exactly helped the situation by not locating two professional sports venues on our rapid transit system.

And, let’s be honest, we’re not very loyal sports fans, which is a hallmark of a smaller market that can’t rely on the corporate sector to fill seats. Strong corporate ticket sales is why Toronto’s AC Centre is regularly sold out for Leafs games, despite the outrageously priced tickets and the team’s ability to make the playoffs about once a decade.

The Ottawa sports market, on the other hand, “has a smaller corporate sector and many fewer head offices than a city of comparable size like Calgary,” Hodgson said earlier this year. “This puts added pressure on team ownership and management to put a quality product on the rink or field.”

That’s a nice way of saying that if our teams don’t win, we don’t go. It’s also a way of saying that Melnyk should shell out for a more successful team.

Whether Melnyk’s pointed comments this week are an excuse for lower-than-average player salaries, or a veiled threat to move the team, is for others to speculate. But he reminds us of the key realities of the Ottawa market.

We don’t have the luxury in Ottawa. We have to rely on individual ticket sales more than most cities, and those sales are fickle. So why do we keep pretending we’re a different kind of town?

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http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ol-chianello-2
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  #20  
Old Posted Sep 17, 2014, 11:54 PM
EdFromOttawa EdFromOttawa is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
Good point about the huge broadcast contracts. Melnyk seems intent on using the franchise (which is pretty clearly profitable and has definitely increased in value quite dramatically), to fund his other ventures.

Not sure about a casino 25 km from where the vast majority of tourists and business travellers stay. We've made a mistake with the arena, I don't know about reinforcing that mistake by putting more attractions out there.
Do you have figures to back this up? I've heard Ottawa is the only Canadian team to lose money year after year. They DID go bankrupt in 2003 after all...
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