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  #241  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2014, 8:35 PM
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Montreal is still the most impressive city in Canada by a longshot when it comes to overall language skills (bilingual, trilingual, multilingual, etc.). Ottawa-Gatineau is probably second.
If you are comparing knowledge of French and English then yes, otherwise no I have to disagree. Having lived in both cities (and having Anglophone and Francophone friends - I do speak French and have a Quebecois background), the diversity of languages one hears in Toronto are on a completely different level than in Montreal. What has personally inspired me in Toronto is the willingness of people (usually within their own personal circle of friends and family) to attempt other languages and play around in each others' languages. My experience in Toronto is one of diversity not just in statistics, but in everyday life. This is based entirely on my completely biased, personal opinion of course. Although such statements you used ("most impressive") are highly subjective and can never really be proven right or wrong.

But, can one truly speak of cities in terms of statistics? This is perhaps why it is important to live in the cities we are making assumptions about (while also keeping our mind's open). Our experiences of cities are deeply personal and subjective and maybe that is the point.
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  #242  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2014, 8:57 PM
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But the question wasn't "Why does everyone love Montreal because it's soooooooo European"?, was it?

Remove my reference as you suggested in bold, your exaggeration of soooooooooooo European. Doesn't change what I posted.
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  #243  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2014, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CANAUS View Post
the diversity of languages one hears in Toronto are on a completely different level than in Montreal.
the two phenomena are different and not directly comparable. in toronto, one hears the many languages of a diaspora metropolis. in montreal, two languages contend for actual control of the place.
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  #244  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2014, 11:58 PM
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the two phenomena are different and not directly comparable. in toronto, one hears the many languages of a diaspora metropolis. in montreal, two languages contend for actual control of the place.
I heard that if you go there on a good night you can hear authentic Jamaican patois in the Etobicoke Steak Queen.
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  #245  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2014, 12:08 AM
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the two phenomena are different and not directly comparable. in toronto, one hears the many languages of a diaspora metropolis. in montreal, two languages contend for actual control of the place.
No doubt. Montreal has a long history of rivalry between both languages that are at the heart of a lot of the tensions between the anglophone and francophone communities (I am still surprised by how both communities often inhabit two entirely separate spheres of the city's psyche, even if they do intersect from time to time). And let's be honest, there are a lot of tensions between the cultures of various immigrant groups (or more precisely, certain ethnic groups) and the dominant Quebecois culture. I don't dispute this, just the idea that one city has superior language skills compared to another.
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  #246  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2014, 3:01 AM
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Remove my reference as you suggested in bold, your exaggeration of soooooooooooo European. Doesn't change what I posted.
If so, then your comment was not really relevant to the thread topic.

It's as if in a thread about Toronto's greatnesss (or lack thereof), I launched a ''Well I don't know why everyone loves Toronto. I've been to NYC, and trust me, Toronto's no NYC''.
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  #247  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2014, 3:02 AM
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  #248  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2014, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
the two phenomena are different and not directly comparable. in toronto, one hears the many languages of a diaspora metropolis. in montreal, two languages contend for actual control of the place.
The main difference being that Montreal has scores of diaspora languages as well, but that the speakers of diaspora languages also tend to speak French and English as well.

Montreal is closing in on 30% trilingualism in its population.
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  #249  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2014, 6:11 AM
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^^ It is true that Montreal has the highest proportion of people who are trilingual 18.5% in 2006 compared to second place Toronto at 10.5%.
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  #250  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2014, 1:28 PM
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^^ It is true that Montreal has the highest proportion of people who are trilingual 18.5% in 2006 compared to second place Toronto at 10.5%.
I seem to recall seeing 26% or something for Montreal as a more recent figure.
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  #251  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 8:10 PM
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We were in Montreal again for our annual vacation trip to Quebec. There were various highlights, among them:

The botanical gardens across the street from Olympic Stadium is magnificent, with various exhibits that you can lose yourself in for a whole afternoon. Really fantastic, and I'm not even all that much of an arborphile compared to my wife.

Schwartz's. What new is there to say about the most legendary restaurant in the whole country? It's a tiny joint serving up mouth-watering smoked meat to carnivorous customers crowded around little tables. The waiter looked like he could have been the son of Duddy Kravitz (aka Richard Dreyfuss). We hadn't actually been there for several years, so we made a point of going this time. St. Laurent was closed to vehicular traffic for a street fair that day. We went late Sunday evening, when it wasn't quite as crowded, and savoured the sandwich itself (with pickle and cherry Coke, of course--we're not heretics) along with the delicious summery languor of the street itself.

Which was when it really hit me full force: Montreal feels lived in in a way that no other place does. Toronto's getting there, but it still doesn't quite take possession of its public space so effortlessly and naturally as Montreal does. People in Montreal don't seem to be flirting with urban living, or trying it on for size.

Well, okay, in the Plateau there probably are loads of hipster kids in their 20s and 30s indulging in Plateau-lives who will eventually decamp to the more suburban cities they originally came from, but still, my guess is that they're outnumbered by les vrais Montréalais and non-natives who have no plans or desires to leave.

I really like Rue St. Viateur, and Mile End in general. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I really like it. Not just due to the famous bagel shop, though that doesn't hurt. I think it's because it's just so bloody comfortable. The street has multiple stop signs, keeping traffic slow, such that you can wander here and there without feeling oppressed by speeding metallic missiles. It feels sort of like Mile End's living room. And could it be that the heightened anglophone presence and alternative/indie cache result in comparatively relaxed standards of dress? Wouldn't you say that St. Denis is more fashionably-attired than St. Laurent and points west?

That seemed to be my impression, though I could be projecting my own biases and/or expectations, which are admittedly shot through with stereotypes. Confirmation bias, in other words. Maybe there's not much difference. I wonder what Montrealers would say to this.

I can highly recommend Pizza St. Viateur, just west of St. Laurent. They make a great pie. Thin crust, of course, which is really the only way to make good pizza.

I did a bike ride on La Route Verte to Chambly and back. The asphalt is rough going through Longueuil, and it's not all that scenic, but once you get out of the city it's marvelous. You have these long tree-shrouded stretches with no contact with any other roads whatsoever, making riding a joy. Like a winding country road, but just for cyclists. I mentioned this to another cyclist making the trip out, and he agreed. We ended up leisurely pedalling our way to Chambly in tandem and enjoying an hour-long conversation. In Spanish, as it happens. Which was gratifying for me. The 75-year-old gentleman was from Colombia, and could speak only rudimentary French, though he'd lived in the Montreal area for more than forty years. He said "Chambly" with a hard, Spanish "ch." I couldn't help smiling at that.

Oh, this Airbnb thing is really quite something. We got three nights in a new one-room condo on Bishop just south of Ste. Catherine for just $90 a night. That's cheaper than a regular B&B or any hotel, and it was spacious, comfortable and right in the middle of the action. What a great option.
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  #252  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 8:46 PM
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I've been living in Montreal for 30 years and I have never been to Schwartz's. And I'm not saying this to brag or to be a snob, because I really love a good smoked meat, but I just never wanted it so bad that I could bring myself to line up.

The botanical garden is just magical. The Japanese garden is one of the most romantic and serene place you can be in the city. And thanks for the the tip about the bike path to Chambly. Duly noted.
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  #253  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 8:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
I've been living in Montreal for 30 years and I have never been to Schwartz's. And I'm not saying this to brag or to be a snob, because I really love a good smoked meat, but I just never wanted it so bad that I could bring myself to line up.
Go late on a Sunday evening. The place was full when we went, but there was no line-up outside. We got served right away.
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  #254  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 8:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Oh, this Airbnb thing is really quite something. We got three nights in a new one-room condo on Bishop just south of Ste. Catherine for just $90 a night. That's cheaper than a regular B&B or any hotel, and it was spacious, comfortable and right in the middle of the action. What a great option.
For anyone who likes to immerse themselves in urban neighbourhoods, airbnb is a game-changer. I've only started using it lately myself, but it is phenomenal. Quite often cheaper and better than staying in a hotel, and it opens up areas that don't necessarily have hotels in them.

Nice take on Montreal in general as well.
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  #255  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 9:09 PM
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I just realized that the OP has not posted in seemingly ages. I hope Rousseau has not abandoned SSP. I always enjoyed reading his posts and appreciated his many intellectual contributions to so many SSP threads.
(from the Rob Ford thread yesterday)
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  #256  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 9:24 PM
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Rousseau is back - wooo!

I'll third the airbnb sentiment. It's cheaper than hotels, you get a full apartment, and can stay in far more interesting neighbourhoods than ones hotels are usually located in. I use it pretty much exclusively when I travel now.
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  #257  
Old Posted Sep 12, 2014, 9:59 PM
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I'm impressed with MolsonExport's crystal ball!!!
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  #258  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2014, 1:46 AM
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Whoa, thanks for the kind words, fellow SSPers. A while back I was suspended for ranting off-topic about the U.S. military in another thread and telling a mod to eff-off for calling said ranting "juvenile." I rubbed the powers-that-be the wrong way, and their heavy-handed reaction rubbed me the wrong way.

So I took a break. Took long walks on the beach in my capri pants. Took up water-colouring. Took voyeuristic photos of a middle-aged gymnast named Bruce. But I got tired of all this taking and no giving. That's no way to live.
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  #259  
Old Posted Sep 13, 2014, 2:16 AM
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Now that you're back, show us some Stratford.
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  #260  
Old Posted Sep 14, 2014, 2:59 AM
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Now that you're back, show us some Stratford.
I'm not much of a photographer. See flar's photos of Stratford, he's got it covered.
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