Winnipeg | Exchange District | Developments & Discussions

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Unfortunate. The Pump House project was directly tied in to the parkade coming to fruition, regardless of other issues.

There are lots of projects in the immediate area that hinge on the development of a parkade. The Pumphouse project tried to incorporate the parkade into their project. That was just one proposal and as it turned out the Pumphouse project just wasn't feasible. The parkade will likely be a stand alone 4 to 5 storey structure with 400+ stalls.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by Biff

There are lots of projects in the immediate area that hinge on the development of a parkade. The Pumphouse project tried to incorporate the parkade into their project. That was just one proposal and as it turned out the Pumphouse project just wasn't feasible. The parkade will likely be a stand alone 4 to 5 storey structure with 400+ stalls.

Yes, I understand the importance of the parkade going forward in relation to future developments in the East Exchange, It's been discussed on numerous occasions.

The PumpHouse proposal had Red Flags surrounding it's feasibility from the day it was announced, or shortly after. No surprise.

I was responding more to this portion of your initial post.

Originally Posted by Biff

They are not issuing an RFP for Design or Construction which means if no developers want to touch this nothing will happen........just like where we are right now.

If a stand alone structure is what it will take to further development in the area so be it.
We seem to be at the start from scratch phase.

[Winnipeg Architect]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Yes, I understand the importance of the parkade going forward in relation to future developments in the East Exchange, It's been discussed on numerous occasions.

The PumpHouse proposal had Red Flags surrounding it's feasibility from the day it was announced, or shortly after. No surprise.

I was responding more to this portion of your initial post.



If a stand alone structure is what it will take to further development in the area so be it.
We seem to be at the start from scratch phase.

The only way to make this feasible is to tear down the structure and re-use the facade like they did at RRCC or 100 King where the re-built the old building brick by brick for the new parkade and main floor retail. Those both were economical as well as retaining the history of the building. (Government paid for that work so it was economical for the developer)

There is a large u/g pipe connected to the river as well that has to be dealt with.

20 years and counting and nothing has been done. This shows the city's lack of vision. Too bad because it is in the centre of Waterfront Drive.

[esquire]

^ I wonder if the Pump House is starting to become a millstone around Waterfront's neck. I understand that there are other development sites nearby for someone who wants to build, but this is arguably one of the last juicy city-owned sites, and it's in the middle of the action, right on Waterfront.

If someone came around with the right proposal and the jingle in their pocket to actually get it built, I think I could bear parting with it or seeing it redeveloped in the way that W_A described.

[Riverman]

Take one of the historic pieces out and put it in a glass case in Juba park. Then tear down the pumphouse and develop the site. There is no need to preserve the whole thing, really.

The first jet engine built in the USA is in a glass case in front of the GE plant at 1000 Western Ave in Lynn, MA. It is a significant artifact and people actually get to see it!

[Winnipeg Architect]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Take one of the historic pieces out and put it in a glass case in Juba park. Then tear down the pumphouse and develop the site. There is no need to preserve the whole thing, really.

The first jet engine built in the USA is in a glass case in front of the GE plant at 100 Western Ave in Lynn, MA. It is a significant artifact and people actually get to see it!

You are preaching the choir!!!!

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I wonder if the Pump House is starting to become a millstone around Waterfront's neck. I understand that there are other development sites nearby for someone who wants to build, but this is arguably one of the last juicy city-owned sites, and it's in the middle of the action, right on Waterfront.

If someone came around with the right proposal and the jingle in their pocket to actually get it built, I think I could bear parting with it or seeing it redeveloped in the way that W_A described.

There are issues with the East Exchange/Waterfront that go beyond just the Pumphouse. There's really nothing there. The West Exchange is actually growing much faster and it's happening organically with both services and residential density. The issue with the pumphouse is that CV wants money for it from what I understand. Naturally, this leads to what the value might be, but we can't forget that they're now into it for almost $1MM. Generally speaking, one might value the parking lot minus the cost of the Pumphouse remediation/demolition and there's your value. But that means negative value for CV and I don't think they have the political capital for a free delivery of the land to somebody after the Carlton Inn. Either way, there's still a difficult rental market unless you allow somebody to build a wood frame 4-storey building and give the land away for nothing, and I don't see that happening given the design review requirements of the district.

It can't be forgotten that legitimate groups have tried in the East Exchange and aren't coming back for more. I'm not generally a heritage proponent, but if CV wants to do something, get it to the point where it can be renovated for some leaseholds and get a brew pub or something in there. It really is pretty impressive and tearing it down really doesn't give the site that much more hope. There are still original units for sale in some of the other waterfront buildings. I'm not convinced there's any pent up demand for anything residential rising from that site. Whomever ultimately develops that site is going to be asking for money. Why not just keep the building, use that money to remediate, and get a tenant at a huge discount who's prepared to take on their leaseholds. Five years later if they're still operational, write a lease at market value...

[Winnipeg Architect]

Centre Venture should at least pressure wash the exterior and clean up the gravel parking lot.

It looks like sh!t.

They do not care. Ross left them with a $13M debt in purchasing those 2 hotels.

The new CEO will be left with a financial disaster.

I spoke with Take Pride Winnipeg to paint the Duncan Arena and to paint a mural on GW Metals but so far nothing. Tom did get most of the graffiti that was sprayed everywhere in the spring when I called.

I did have the city look at the Alexander Docks Sept 2013 and it is closed due to structural issues I raised back then. It is un-safe.

I also tried to purchase the Duncan Arena, and Parking lot from Cliff Loganberg but they never set a price. He paid like $170K for the parking lot and told my guy from Avision Young 4 years ago he wanted $750K. Nutz.

Simplicity is correct about wood-frame. Anything else for rental (and maybe condo now) is a losing proposition. Wood has increased 50% in the past year due to China stockpiling lumber. (They drove the price up)

H2O Phase 1 at 500 Waterfront Drive is 100% occupied as rental and Phase 2 at 480 Waterfront Drive is under construction and now has a waiting list. It will be 2 levels with 21 units.

You-Cube has 3 units for sale Phase 1 and I am not sure of the sales for Phase 2 but they have still not finished the 9 condos after over 2 years of construction.

The Spaceship Condo is still in outer-space with no site work to date but they have stated 50% sales.

Rental is the way to go as most young people do not have the money for the down-payment and prices and not going down.

Looks like home-ownership is not a priority for the young generation.

Also, Qualico has had minimal sales for 110 James after 7 years of marketing and their other building at 132 James also has sluggish sales. (About 50% sales to date)

They have no on-site parking even though they own the parking lot on Lily and James. (They should build their own lot like most)

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

There are issues with the East Exchange/Waterfront that go beyond just the Pumphouse. There's really nothing there. The West Exchange is actually growing much faster and it's happening organically with both services and residential density. The issue with the pumphouse is that CV wants money for it from what I understand. Naturally, this leads to what the value might be, but we can't forget that they're now into it for almost $1MM. Generally speaking, one might value the parking lot minus the cost of the Pumphouse remediation/demolition and there's your value. But that means negative value for CV and I don't think they have the political capital for a free delivery of the land to somebody after the Carlton Inn. Either way, there's still a difficult rental market unless you allow somebody to build a wood frame 4-storey building and give the land away for nothing, and I don't see that happening given the design review requirements of the district.

It can't be forgotten that legitimate groups have tried in the East Exchange and aren't coming back for more. I'm not generally a heritage proponent, but if CV wants to do something, get it to the point where it can be renovated for some leaseholds and get a brew pub or something in there. It really is pretty impressive and tearing it down really doesn't give the site that much more hope. There are still original units for sale in some of the other waterfront buildings. I'm not convinced there's any pent up demand for anything residential rising from that site. Whomever ultimately develops that site is going to be asking for money. Why not just keep the building, use that money to remediate, and get a tenant at a huge discount who's prepared to take on their leaseholds. Five years later if they're still operational, write a lease at market value...

The highest and best use for the pumphouse is as itself...
The area does not need that site to be anything other than landscaped under the east exchange engineering study guidelines.

There are easily 10 other sites waiting to be developed without the Pumphouse costs and challenges...

If there was demand, there would be more development.

You are right in that there is organic development unseen in years.

Please checkout the video art installations this year at Nuit Blanche at 125 Pacific, Sarurday 8:00 PM till 2:00AM. "Starlight"

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Winnipeg Architect

Looks like home-ownership is not a priority for the young generation.

I don't think that's the case. I'm in my late 20's and most of the people I know own houses. If you were responsible, home ownership is very attainable. You just need to work a little bit. If all you do is go to the bar, well that's your choice.

Let me clarify, they own as opposed to renting. Detached house, condo, townhouse.

[Riverman]

^ The only way to get the house you want is to buy a starter, gain equity and move up.

[bomberjet]

^Exactly. I've been in my place 4 years now. Likely another 3 years of upgrades. Then we'll be looking to sell and move on up.

[h0twired]

Originally Posted by Riverman

^ The only way to get the house you want is to buy a starter, gain equity and move up.

Blasphemy!

I demand to have the standard of living my parents worked decades to earn... and a new iPhone!

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

^Exactly. I've been in my place 4 years now. Likely another 3 years of upgrades. Then we'll be looking to sell and move on up.

With 7 years total in your house, assuming a 30 year mortgage and minimum payments, you will more than likely have paid off 10-20% of the value of your home (depending on if the value went up or down). If you include the property tax, insurance, money you spent on upgrades, etc.etc.etc. you may have been better renting for the last 7 years and investing the difference.

Just a thought before everyone thinks home ownership is a "good investment".

[Cyro]

I found ownership and the purchase of properites easier to to deal with in the long term in my early 20's due to the fact I squirrel'd away/invested my $$$. The size of my initial down payment toward my investment drastically decreased what I had to pay over the long term.

I'm not saying this is the norm with 1st time buyers but with some early guidance in saving and a large lump sum placed on your initial purchase, life becomes a little easier.

[Riverman]

When you rent, you also pay homeowners insurance, property tax, mortgage payments and all the rest. You pay them through the landlord with a nice tidy profit on top of that.

Owning a home is a good investment.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Riverman

When you rent, you also pay homeowners insurance, property tax, mortgage payments and all the rest. You pay them through the landlord with a nice tidy profit on top of that.

Owning a home is a good investment.

Owning a home is a safe investment more than a good investment.

Rent may include "all the rest" as you say. But it is a significantly lower amount compared to being a sole owner.

Owning a home is far more expensive monthly and stressful generally than simply renting someone else's place.

However it is a luxury, as well as a safe way to squirrel away money in equity. It just costs you lots in interest, insurance, maintenance, taxes etc to get there.

All in all, if you invested the same monthly mortgage principal amount in a mutual fund or something similar, you likely be far better off financially than based what you would net following a house sale after 25 years.

All that being said, I have a house, the mortgage and all the fun with it - but I still respect those who do something different.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

If you include the property tax, insurance, money you spent on upgrades, etc.etc.etc. you may have been better renting for the last 7 years and investing the difference.

Just a thought before everyone thinks home ownership is a "good investment".

I question how many people actually have the discipline to sock away the difference religiously, though. Good for you if you can do it, but a mortgage gives you no practical choice - a bit of a forced savings plan, if you will.

Also, it's a lot harder to get an X hundred thousand dollar loan from the bank to invest in equities or whatever the way they will lend you that kind of money to buy a house, which - even better - is capital gains exempt! Seems pretty good to me.

[Cyro]

Minor announcement, most are already aware of the Market and Elgin improvements underway.

City, province partner on $7.8-M plan to improve Exchange District

A new program aimed at attracting more residents and retailers to the downtown's Exchange District was launched today.

The Exchange-Waterfront Neighbourhood Development Program will see the city and the province invest $7.8 million dollars over the next four years in things like new outdoor patios, new sidewalks, additional lighting and landscaping treatments, and additional foot patrols in the area.

The province has also purchased two new cars for a new car-sharing program for area residents.

A total of $1.9 million has been set aside for the first phase of the program. That phase is already underway and will include streetscaping improvements In the Market and Elgin avenue area of the East Exchange.

The kind of retailers they hope to attract to the area include a grocery store, more cafés and restaurants, and residential amenities such as a dry cleaner.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/C...ct-274769101.html?cx_navSource=d-tiles-2

[rypinion]

The new Peg City Car Co-op cars are at:

- Main and Bannatyne
- James and Lily

I've already completed submitting my membership application this morning.