Canadian Retail Thread

[Acajack]

For the record, I do agree with bikegypsy that things are looking up in a big way for Ottawa in terms of food, drink, shopping and overall sophistication even.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Allan83

I have a number of family members who are longtime employees of the federal government in Ottawa, and when I lived there my girlfriend, who moved there with me, got a job with them as well, and as a result a lot of our friends through her also worked for the feds, so I have some firsthand experience with this question. None of my family members grew up in Ottawa, btw. Many cities in Canada suffer from civil servant-itis, as we call it. Regina, a government town, is more conservative/reserved than Saskatoon, for example, but nowhere has it like Ottawa. But that’s understandable. 10% of the total population sounds about right, but that would be about 15% of the working population, and a much higher percentage than that of the people who make above average wages. If you’re in a store shopping look around. One out of every four or five people you see shopping probably works for the federal government. Even your entry level CR-7s make a comfortable starting wage, not extravagant by any means, but certainly more than the guy behind the counter at the 7-11. W.r.t. anonymity, if you live and work in Ottawa then you are much more anonymous in Montreal or Toronto. Not everyone in Ottawa is conservative in this way, of course, but overall Ottawa is much more conservative than most Canadian cities.

As a side note, I would agree that Ottawa is more outdoorsy than Montreal, but it’s not very outdoorsy in the greater Canadian context, although there people there who do take pains to be outdoorsy. The civil servant thing to do is to rent a cottage in the Gatineau somewhere, which is great, but still quite civilized. Hiking in the Gatineau hills is also very nice, but again not exactly in the same league as people who hike in the mountains, or the wilds of Newfoundland, etc. There are a number of people who go canoeing in Algonquin, and that’s getting more outdoorsy, but again it’s not like canoeing on the Churchill in northern Saskatchewan, for example. In Algonquin there are specific camp sites that you have to use, and you have to make reservations in advance, and there are quite a few other people around. I’ve been on canoe trips in northern Saskatchewan where we didn’t see anyone else for days, and we made our own campsites wherever we saw an appropriate place.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It's by living 10 years abroad that I have found Ottawans to be among the most liberal canadians, easily. I will add that it's not a kind of boisterous liberalism a la Montreal, but rather a clever liberalism, akin to Woody Allen.

As for the outdoorsy fact, it ranks low in Canada as a whole as it is a large city after all. But it is topping the big urban centers probably equal to Vancouver and Quebec City in this characteristic.... The Rideau canal helps as you see people with attache cases skating to work in winter and the Gatineau national park has an entrance literally 10 minutes from downtown. It is also a a great cycling city. It does beat Montreal which does perform very well in this respect, more so than Toronto in my opinion.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

As for the outdoorsy fact, it ranks low in Canada as a whole as it is a large city after all. But it is topping the big urban centers probably equal to Vancouver and Quebec City in this characteristic.... .

I would add Calgary in there as well to round out the top 4.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I would add Calgary in there as well to round out the top 4.

Yes... Absolutely! I forgot Calgary... My bad.

[Allan83]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It's by living 10 years abroad that I have found Ottawans to be among the most liberal canadians, easily. I will add that it's not a kind of boisterous liberalism a la Montreal, but rather a clever liberalism, akin to Woody Allen.

As for the outdoorsy fact, it ranks low in Canada as a whole as it is a large city after all. But it is topping the big urban centers probably equal to Vancouver and Quebec City in this characteristic.... The Rideau canal helps as you see people with attache cases skating to work in winter and the Gatineau national park has an entrance literally 10 minutes from downtown. It is also a a great cycling city. It does beat Montreal which does perform very well in this respect, more so than Toronto in my opinion.

Woody Allen, in terms of his dress and deportment, is very conservative. Remember that we’re talking about small c conservatism, not big C. This isn't really about how liberal a person is.

In terms of outdoorsiness, Ottawa doesn’t even come close to Vancouver or Calgary. Being by the mountains is a big part of that, of course, because there is so much you can do within a very short distance of these cities. Ottawa, Quebec and Edmonton city have forested and wilder areas around them and this provides some opportunities to get outdoors and do some things, and I’m sure it puts them above Toronto and Montreal, but none of them come anywhere near Vancouver and Calgary.

Here’s just the latest thing to do in the Calgary area, for example.


http://travel.ca.msn.com/specials/themes/canada%E2%80%99s-best-new-summer-attractions?page=2

https://www.google.ca/search?q=via+ferra...5#q=via+ferrata+banff&tbm=isch&tbs=isz:m

[big W]

Originally Posted by Allan83

10% of the total population sounds about right, but that would be about 15% of the working population, and a much higher percentage than that of the people who make above average wages.

It appears that there are 136,000 federal government jobs in 2011. I would guess at that time the labour force for the area would be 725,000 with 675,000 employed. So that would be about 20% of the total jobs directly with the feds. Once you include teachers, nurses, and other provincial employees and then add all municipal employees, you would have numbers closer to 30% of the total employment directly by government. There are of course lots of jobs indirectly due to government presence such as lobbyists, law firms, accounting firms for government etc however they don't fit that same mold in this sense. Either way 30% of the total labour force is huge when you consider these are typically high salaries employees that are out of the market for their goods.

Federal Government Jobs by CMA
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/govt58a-eng.htm

Ottawa Labour Force Stats
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/lfss04d-eng.htm

[big W]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

Civil servants make up less than 10% of the total population in Ottawa and no, being a civil servant doesn't make you conservative. There is, however, a trend to underdress in Ottawa or to be more outdoorsy in style then places such as Montreal and Toronto.

Its actually more than 10% of the total population and 20% of the work force are directly employed by the feds. Then add provincial and municipal employees and those numbers are significantly higher. For a company like Holts the 45% of the population that is unemployed, seniors or children, they are not part of the target market. Therefore you are left with only 25% of the population that is employed and in the target age, however how many have the income to buy such items. It shrinks significantly after that. However even with all that I still cannot see how 1.4 million in the Ottawa area do not have enough people to support a store if they have the product and market. It should be able to support it.

[isaidso]

A lot of seniors buy luxury. They're certainly more monied than people under 40 and have no dependents. I do agree that Ottawa should be able to support a Holts... easily. I'm shocked that it can't.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by isaidso

A lot of seniors by luxury. They're certainly more monied than people under 40 and have no dependents. I do agree that Ottawa should be able to support a Holts... easily. I'm shocked that it can't.

Not as wealthy as you calculated perhaps?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Not as wealthy as you calculated perhaps?

As explained previously, it's not about wealth, it's culture and lifestyle choice.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

As explained previously, it's not about wealth, it's culture and lifestyle choice.

I didn't realize that Ottawa Shopping Culture was so different than Calgary and Toronto. Must be that whole public sector frugality thing going on,......... I guess.

[Taeolas]

Is it really that different? Or is it, as others have pointed out, the fact that whoever was in charge of scouting the location and store size *really* dropped the ball on it. It's one thing to abandon a market because the market doesn't support you. It's an entirely different thing to abandon a market because your only location is a small store in an office tower on the edge of pedestrian traffic, far away from the main shopping meccas of the region.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

As explained previously, it's not about wealth, it's culture and lifestyle choice.

Absolutely. Anyone who has spent time in Asia will know this. Luxury labels are highly valued there... to the point where you will see secretaries and clerks and such walking around with Louis Vuitton bags that must have taken them months to save up for. (The rough Canadian equivalent would be the guy in a warehouse who pays $200 to go watch a NHL game live.)

Most Canadians don't seem to go for the luxury stuff quite as much. We seem to prefer spending our disposable income on other frills... it's just a matter of taste. It's hardly a surprise that much of the designer/ luxury retail growth is taking place in cities where there is a lot of Asian wealth, i.e. Vancouver and Toronto.

There are tier three Chinese cities with designer boutiques that you would never see in a Canadian city despite the likelihood that on a per capita level there would be far more wealth in a similarly sized Canadian city. For instance, Ningbo has a Louis Vuitton store and per capita GDP of US$12,000 ... by contrast, Sask has a per capita GDP of CDN$72,000. If Sask ever decided to buy Dior clothes with as much enthusiasm as when they buy Weston Dressler jerseys, there would be several high end designer boutiques lining the Cornwall Centre and Midtown Plaza. But that's not where their tastes lie.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ When you can easily do a day trip to Montreal and hit 10 stores, Montreal will win out. It isn't like Calgary where the closest larger shopping destination is to fly to Vegas/Toronto/New York/Vancouver/Seattle to shop

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ When you can easily do a day trip to Montreal and hit 10 stores, Montreal will win out. It isn't like Calgary where the closest larger shopping destination is to fly to Vegas/Toronto/New York/Vancouver/Seattle to shop

Vegas is ridiculous. So is New York...

Ridiculously Expensive, like the whole place is made up of Louis Vuitton and Gucci...

[memememe76]

There are plenty of Old Navy's and H&M's in NYC. And other stores like Uniqulo that are not widely found in NA (yet) but still affordable.

[caltrane74]

Hudson Bay Chief doesn't see Saks Fifth Ave stores in Quebec or Ottawa

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/hu...ajor-markets-for-luxury-retail-1.2003785

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Hudson Bay Chief doesn't see Saks Fifth Ave stores in Quebec or Ottawa

http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/hu...ajor-markets-for-luxury-retail-1.2003785

Confirming our previous discussion re Ottawa on this thread. I found his comments about Nordstrom overly dismissive - if it's not a "luxury" chain, it's certainly at the very highest level of "mid-tier".

[speedog]

Originally Posted by Allan83

Here’s just the latest thing to do in the Calgary area, for example.

Really?

Maybe for a very small subset of Calgarians but for the majority, they just aren't heading out west to the Rockies to do some climbing.

[SpongeG]

Winners Coming Soon to Tri-City Mall, Cold Lake Alberta!

Sitings is pleased to announce Canada’s discount fashion retailer, Winners, has leased 20,000sf at Tri-City Mall in Cold Lake, Alberta and will be opening February, 2015. Get ready to find items like designer clothing, footwear, furniture, bedding, toys, beauty products and more.

Strategically placed, Tri-City Mall is located along Highway #28, between North and South Cold Lake to service the entire residential populace as well as the many tourists that visit. Moreover, it’s no secret that the oil and gas industry is booming in Northern Alberta. Cold Lake is Alberta’s second largest oil sands deposit next to Fort McMurray, with nearly $3 billion of oil expansion projects currently underway. Recent economic growth in the region surrounding the Cold Lake oil sands has had national retailers rushing to secure their footholds in this strong economic region.

...

http://sitings.ca/sitings-news/winners-coming-soon-to-tri-city-mall-cold-lake-alberta/