PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I go to the dirty bird. It's not bad like I had heard. Pretty standard quality and cleanliness, IMO.

Ditto. If I need something midweek that a convenience store doesn't carry, I'll sometimes walk over there from Downtown. Seems fine to me.

[DKNewYork]

Took this photo last night from my apartment. Appears that the memorial design has been changed now that the shell of 1 WTC is complete. Rather than the twin shafts of light shining up from the plaza, it now seems to be one shaft on the top of 1 WTC surrounding the surrounding the spire.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3889/14959896940_103136da6a_b.jpg

[photoLith]

^
Wow downtown Pittsburgh never looked so good.

[themaguffin]

The Forbes Ave health building redevelopment site in Oakland is now up to 389 apartments + the hotel, parking garage and more. That's a lot of units.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business...s/201409050082

This is interesting:

“Tenants won’t lease before the space is completed. We weren’t willing to be speculative on the office space,” he said.

Something's got to give here. Obviously more space is needed.

[BrianTH]

As is often the case, I think some topographic maps can help illustrate the fundamentals of Pittsburgh neighborhoods. So here is the East End:



And here is what I think more or less explains the fundamental appeal of East Liberty:



That circle is roughly between the Allegheny River and Forbes, and the Hill and Braddock, and basically within that circle, East Liberty historically was the undisputed epicenter, as reflected by the pattern of the main roads. And arguably you could also extend it further east along and around Penn, but at some point you run into Downtown Wilkinsburg being an historic (and hopefully future) rival, so I think Braddock works as a rough border.

And just to pile on the grounds for optimism--there is currently a lot of underutilized land in that circle, including in East Liberty itself, Larimer, Homewood, the Baum-Centre corridor, and Garfield. There are projects of various sorts in the works in all those areas, and I think there is a clear positive feedback cycle going between the redevelopment of those areas and the redevelopment of Downtown East Liberty.

In short, as I have suggested before, you can't really grasp what is happening, and what could happen, in East Liberty if you think of it as just another neighborhood. What we are witnessing is rather more like the rebirth of a new small city, with its own Downtown and a variety of satellite communities. And all on a scale that could actually make Greater East Liberty, seen in this way, one of the most important small cities on this side of the state. Which it basically used to be.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That circle is roughly between the Allegheny River and Forbes, and the Hill and Braddock, and basically within that circle, East Liberty historically was the undisputed epicenter, as reflected by the pattern of the main roads. And arguably you could also extend it further east along and around Penn, but at some point you run into Downtown Wilkinsburg being an historic (and hopefully future) rival, so I think Braddock works as a rough border.

And just to pile on the grounds for optimism--there is currently a lot of underutilized land in that circle, including in East Liberty itself, Larimer, Homewood, the Baum-Centre corridor, and Garfield. There are projects of various sorts in the works in all those areas, and I think there is a clear positive feedback cycle going between the redevelopment of those areas and the redevelopment of Downtown East Liberty.

In short, as I have suggested before, you can't really grasp what is happening, and what could happen, in East Liberty if you think of it as just another neighborhood. What we are witnessing is rather more like the rebirth of a new small city, with its own Downtown and a variety of satellite communities. And all on a scale that could actually make Greater East Liberty, seen in this way, one of the most important small cities on this side of the state. Which it basically used to be.

I understand what you're getting at here. I was just making a point with someone on another forum yesterday that East Liberty is pretty unique within Pittsburgh in that the commercial district isn't a strip but a grid - a planned downtown. Currently there's passable street life on Penn, Highland, Centre, Baum, and Broad, but more streets could be developed back into vibrancy over time.

Pittsburgh obviously had a few more districts like this in the past. This was how Allegheny Center was laid out before obliteration. And although much smaller, the West End Village was meant as a tight urban grid - which you can still barely see the remnants of. But the closest surviving parallel outside of Downtown is actually Downtown Wilkinsburg, as it has two major commercial streets along with some minor storefronts within its core. I do hope it stages a comeback soon, but I fear that some more dramatic action (like merger into PPS to bring down tax levels) will be needed.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I was just making a point with someone on another forum yesterday that East Liberty is pretty unique within Pittsburgh in that the commercial district isn't a strip but a grid - a planned downtown. Currently there's passable street life on Penn, Highland, Centre, Baum, and Broad, but more streets could be developed back into vibrancy over time. Pittsburgh obviously had a few more districts like this in the past. This was how Allegheny Center was laid out before obliteration. And although much smaller, the West End Village was meant as a tight urban grid - which you can still barely see the remnants of.

Part of what I find fascinating about this topic is how much influence topography and transportation has had. Historic grids like East Liberty and Allegheny arose because they combined a combination of a lot of pretty flat land with being along key transportation links--the rivers in Allegheny's case, and the main land route to Philadelphia in East Liberty's case (with railroads eventually making an appearance both places for the same underlying reasons).

West End Village, unfortunately, lacks the same relative abundance of flat land. That is a problem for the western and southern portions of the City in general, it largely explains why the East End has been relatively successful in attracting investment and development, and I personally think it is a basic problem we need to be a little creative about addressing if we want to unlock the full potential of those regions.

But the closest surviving parallel outside of Downtown is actually Downtown Wilkinsburg, as it has two major commercial streets along with some minor storefronts within its core. I do hope it stages a comeback soon, but I fear that some more dramatic action (like merger into PPS to bring down tax levels) will be needed.

Yep, and it is basically the same story as East Liberty (along the same land route, in a relatively large flat area). There is also a lot of TOD potential given the very large park-and-ride lot and other nearby spaces.

Things are already getting better in Wilkinsburg--rising rental demand, rising property prices in key areas, new investments, better governance, county and state support, the PHLF taking a big interest, and so on are all gradually increasing the tax base and improving the financial condition of the municipal government, which should help tax rates go down. But I agree the school district is currently a huge problem and it would likely greatly accelerate Wilkinsburg's redevelopment if that situation was resolved.

[Don't Be That Guy]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I understand what you're getting at here. I was just making a point with someone on another forum yesterday that East Liberty is pretty unique within Pittsburgh in that the commercial district isn't a strip but a grid - a planned downtown. Currently there's passable street life on Penn, Highland, Centre, Baum, and Broad, but more streets could be developed back into vibrancy over time.

With one major exception. It's a street grid - a planned downtown - that is once again serving as a regional retail center. However, unlike the retail centers of yesteryear, there is still a lot of untapped demand for big-box retail. The East Liberty Target, Whole Foods and Home Depot are each top performers in terms of sales per square foot and this isn't lost on Costco, Lowes, Dick's, etc... It's no longer good enough to be in the North South East and Western suburbs, they've discovered that there is a lot of money to be made in the center of the city as well. The trick will be to find room for these retailers and making certain that they can be done in an urban context while accommodating the required parking.

[BrianTH]

By the way, you know where is going to be in a great location if we are ever drawing such circles around both Downtown East Liberty and Downtown Wilkinsburg? Homewood.

Of course the Hill/Uptown have proven being between two important downtowns is not necessarily a golden ticket. And yet I think all that is likely going to change too.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, you know where is going to be in a great location if we are ever drawing such circles around both Downtown East Liberty and Downtown Wilkinsburg? Homewood.

Of course the Hill/Uptown have proven being between two important downtowns is not necessarily a golden ticket. And yet I think all that is likely going to change too.

I think the Hill's problem despite proximity is its topography... which literally elevates the neighborhood out of sight, out of mind from the Downtown and Oakland orbits. It has poor linkages to other neighborhoods... though the cap over the Cross-Town Expressway should help mesh it with Downtown. (an incline to the Strip would be nice... or perhaps an aerial gondola?)

Uptown's problem is also topographical... its incredible narrowness. It is dominated by two very harsh, high-speed multi-lane one-ways (Fifth/Forbes)... which I hate... and bounded by a "limited-access" highway to its South before falling off a cliff. There are very few side streets... and much of the land is controlled by the worst types of owners... hospitals, universities and suburban slumlords... so parking lots have proliferated and obliterated the urban fabric.

Homewood is different... it is part of that relatively flat expanse in the East End... and can easily mesh in with development momentum in Greater East Liberty and Greater Wilkinsburg.

[Evergrey]

Exciting news for Beaver!

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...ilding-coming-to-beaver-county-seat.html

New office building coming to Beaver County seat

Sep 5, 2014, 2:15pm EDT



A development company led by the founder of Fort McIntosh Wealth Investors is building the largest new office building the county seat of Beaver County has seen in years.

Jeff and Ann Ingros have assembled a team and established a design for a new three-story, 21,000-square-foot building at 295 Third St. in downtown Beaver, two blocks from the town’s main business district and a location close to the couple’s home.

The new property will be called the Trinity Building, and is slated to hold a ground-breaking ceremony within the next two weeks for a $4 million construction project expected to be completed by the second quarter of 2015.

The investment firm of which Jeff Ingros is the founder will take the third floor of the building, with the 14,000 square feet of the first two floors being marketed for lease by R.T. Walker and Dave Stephenson of the Pittsburgh office of CBRE.

Dave Summers, the COO for Fort McIntosh, an affiliate of Raymond James Financial Services, Inc., said Ingros was motivated to pursue a larger building and lease the remaining space to other companies because of the business potential of the new cracker plant Royal Dutch Shell is considering to build in nearby Potter Township.

“With that looming out there, that’s why we decided to go larger,” said Summers of the cracker plant proposal’s influence on the Trinity building.

...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

The trick will be to find room for these retailers and making certain that they can be done in an urban context while accommodating the required parking.

Gotta be something like this, right?:

http://urbanland.uli.org/planning-design/walmart-goes-urban/

The 80,000-square-foot (7,400 sq m) store, built in partnership with JBG Rosenfeld Retail, is in a mixed-use building topped by four stories of apartments. Parking is located in a garage directly below the store. Another 10,000 square feet (929 sq m) of retail space is wrapped around the outside of the Walmart; initial tenants include a Starbucks and a bank.

The residential portion of the building contains 303 apartments, a fitness center, a lounge area, a roof deck, and a swimming pool. The store’s main entrance sits at sidewalk level, and shoppers use an escalator to reach the store level. The store offers more groceries than a typical Walmart, and traditional glass windows—a rarity for traditional big-box stores—let in daylight to illuminate the shopping floor.

I say we can line a bunch of those up between Beatty and Euclid from Station St to Baum. And redo the strip malls along Penn too.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Homewood is different... it is part of that relatively flat expanse in the East End... and can easily mesh in with development momentum in Greater East Liberty and Greater Wilkinsburg.

I completely agree.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

With one major exception. It's a street grid - a planned downtown - that is once again serving as a regional retail center. However, unlike the retail centers of yesteryear, there is still a lot of untapped demand for big-box retail. The East Liberty Target, Whole Foods and Home Depot are each top performers in terms of sales per square foot and this isn't lost on Costco, Lowes, Dick's, etc... It's no longer good enough to be in the North South East and Western suburbs, they've discovered that there is a lot of money to be made in the center of the city as well. The trick will be to find room for these retailers and making certain that they can be done in an urban context while accommodating the required parking.

You nailed it. Flat land = big box stores.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

West End Village, unfortunately, lacks the same relative abundance of flat land. That is a problem for the western and southern portions of the City in general, it largely explains why the East End has been relatively successful in attracting investment and development, and I personally think it is a basic problem we need to be a little creative about addressing if we want to unlock the full potential of those regions.

I'm not sure we need to "unlock the potential" quite honestly. A rising tide will lift all boats in the longer run. I mean, I've seen plenty of hilly neighborhoods in San Francisco which are quite desirable. Not to mention some of the hilltop areas have their own amenities (e.g., the Brownsville Corridor) which should be appealing in terms of reinvestment.

Some gondolas would undoubtedly help though.

Originally Posted by Don't Be That Guy

With one major exception. It's a street grid - a planned downtown - that is once again serving as a regional retail center. However, unlike the retail centers of yesteryear, there is still a lot of untapped demand for big-box retail. The East Liberty Target, Whole Foods and Home Depot are each top performers in terms of sales per square foot and this isn't lost on Costco, Lowes, Dick's, etc... It's no longer good enough to be in the North South East and Western suburbs, they've discovered that there is a lot of money to be made in the center of the city as well. The trick will be to find room for these retailers and making certain that they can be done in an urban context while accommodating the required parking.

I'd be fine with that, as long as they are either designed more like the Target, or not in Penn Circle, but a nearby area. There's plenty of land in Larimer, for example. Or Washington Boulevard, which can never be anything but an autocentric corridor. Hell, I think Baum-Centre is a better place to put driving-based businesses - the road design means while they'll always have foot traffic, they'll never be pleasant places to walk.

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Uptown's problem is also topographical... its incredible narrowness. It is dominated by two very harsh, high-speed multi-lane one-ways (Fifth/Forbes)... which I hate... and bounded by a "limited-access" highway to its South before falling off a cliff. There are very few side streets... and much of the land is controlled by the worst types of owners... hospitals, universities and suburban slumlords... so parking lots have proliferated and obliterated the urban fabric.

Most of the negatives on this list are equally true for the Strip District, which is white hot right now for development. Indeed, the primary difference I see between the Strip and Uptown is Uptown actually has a reasonable proportion of its original urban fabric still there, while the Strip is something like 90% post-1920 (and 70% post 1945).

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Homewood is different... it is part of that relatively flat expanse in the East End... and can easily mesh in with development momentum in Greater East Liberty and Greater Wilkinsburg.

I think the railroad tracks provide a psychological barrier which will be hard to cross. I do think you'll begin to see some change in ten years if Larimer does begin to gentrify, but as of right now I'm expecting Larimer to more stabilize the way the Lower Hill has.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Exciting news for Beaver!

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...ilding-coming-to-beaver-county-seat.html

Thanks Evergrey.

Anyway, Beaver always builds at a decent quality. It is far and away the nicest old town in BC.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

It is dominated by two very harsh, high-speed multi-lane one-ways (Fifth/Forbes)... which I hate...

I don't think Fifth & Forbes are any worse in Uptown than they are in Oakland. Do you hate them there too?

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'm not sure we need to "unlock the potential" quite honestly. A rising tide will lift all boats in the longer run. I mean, I've seen plenty of hilly neighborhoods in San Francisco which are quite desirable. Not to mention some of the hilltop areas have their own amenities (e.g., the Brownsville Corridor) which should be appealing in terms of reinvestment.

Some gondolas would undoubtedly help though.



I'd be fine with that, as long as they are either designed more like the Target, or not in Penn Circle, but a nearby area. There's plenty of land in Larimer, for example. Or Washington Boulevard, which can never be anything but an autocentric corridor. Hell, I think Baum-Centre is a better place to put driving-based businesses - the road design means while they'll always have foot traffic, they'll never be pleasant places to walk.



Most of the negatives on this list are equally true for the Strip District, which is white hot right now for development. Indeed, the primary difference I see between the Strip and Uptown is Uptown actually has a reasonable proportion of its original urban fabric still there, while the Strip is something like 90% post-1920 (and 70% post 1945).



I think the railroad tracks provide a psychological barrier which will be hard to cross. I do think you'll begin to see some change in ten years if Larimer does begin to gentrify, but as of right now I'm expecting Larimer to more stabilize the way the Lower Hill has.

There are many parallels between the Strip and Uptown... but I think there are some key differences:

• The Strip is connected to a 'nice' part of Downtown while Uptown spills into an area that's a ghost town after hours.
  
  
• The Strip has a riverfront while Uptown has a cliff (admittedly I love the view from Blvd of the Allies).
  
  
• The Strip while adjacent to... has zero connectivity to the Hill District... while Uptown is often mistaken for being part of the Hill District by less knowledgeable folks. (Mostly a negative for the past as the Hill is on an upward trajectory).
  
  
• The western end of the Strip (which is admittedly mostly barren) blends into Lawrenceville while the western end of Uptown is a no man's land... a weird climb to Oakland or a bridge crossing to the South Side. I see a Lawrenceville/Strip integration as far more likely than Oakland impacting Uptown.
  
  
• The Strip's mostly worthless building environment does give it the advantage of being a bit of a "blank slate"... it truly is a neighborhood where development can be maximized (particularly in the depressing Eastern half away from the markets where misguided opposition could potentially sprout "save the parking lots for the suburban warriors!").
  
  
• The Allegheny seems to be the favored recreational river in Pittsburgh.
  
  
• The Strip also has harsh high-speed roads... Liberty is an abomination... but the heavy street parking along the western half of Penn tends to calm traffic.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I don't think Fifth & Forbes are any worse in Uptown than they are in Oakland. Do you hate them there too?

Yes.

The developer of that huge 350+ unit apartment building even called Fifth "not retail friendly"... because it's clogged with harsh vehicular traffic and really brutal on the pedestrian experience.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Yes.

The developer of that huge 350+ unit apartment building even called Fifth "not retail friendly"... because it's clogged with harsh vehicular traffic and really brutal on the pedestrian experience.

Brutal Pedestrian Experience is my favorite Finnish black metal band.