Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion - Page 621

DKaz · #**12401** Posted **Sep 3, 2014, 4:39 PM**

Keep in mind that the first year Expo Line operated (except during Expo 86), ridership was around 21,000 ppd. Pretty similar to the numbers Seattle is seeing.

So I took the 555 this morning. Left the house at 7:50 and got to work at 9:05.

7:50 left house
7:59 arrived at 107 Ave, parked my car.
8:03 arrived at the bus stop, chatted with Translink and Coast Mountain Bus staff doing passenger counts. 19 passengers have boarded this bus so far that morning. The most passengers to board one bus was 3. They said not bad seeing how they made no effort to advertise it yet. I mentioned that the 337 bus drivers should really announce the express bus to passengers.
8:09 boarded the 555
8:16 got to the beginning of the Brunette Ave. exit.
8:22 finally arrived at Braid Station
8:27 boarded train to Waterfront. I could've probably saved 4-5 minutes going to VCC-Clark instead but meh.
9:05 - arrived at my office.

FYI, it took me around the same time yesterday via Scott Road Station Park & Ride, but some of it was due to the 5 minute lineup for the park & ride pay station.

Hoping for a bit of a quicker commute home tonight.

Fuel savings not as high as I thought, 42 cents vs. what I thought would be 63 cents. But I saved $3 on parking.

WarrenC12 · #**12402** Posted **Sep 3, 2014, 4:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

Keep in mind that the first year Expo Line operated (except during Expo 86), ridership was around 21,000 ppd. Pretty similar to the numbers Seattle is seeing.

They also have several billion in approved and funded expansion plans through to 2023...

logan5 · #**12403** Posted **Sep 3, 2014, 6:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKaz

Keep in mind that the first year Expo Line operated (except during Expo 86), ridership was around 21,000 ppd. Pretty similar to the numbers Seattle is seeing.

Where did you get that number from. That looks impossibly low.

DKaz · #**12404** Posted **Sep 3, 2014, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Where did you get that number from. That looks impossibly low.

I thought I saw it on a chart somewhere.

http://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/1986_01-Quarterly.pdf

Ridership on the first week of revenue service (January 3, 1986) was 40,000 ppd weekdays. By the end of the month, the average was 50,000 ppd weekdays. Oddly, Saturday ridership was even greater at 70,000 ppd.

Here's a chart for unlinked trips:

Source: http://voony.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/some-translink-statistic/

So I have a feeling the number I quoted was for unlinked trips.

So I learned my lesson on not throwing out a number I thought I may have saw three years ago. lol.

logicbomb · #**12405** Posted **Sep 3, 2014, 7:53 PM**

The 96 B Line sucks. Waited 25 min at Surrey Central until I sprinted for a 320. This is a normal occurrence here.

xd_1771 · #**12406** Posted **Sep 3, 2014, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logicbomb

The 96 B Line sucks. Waited 25 min at Surrey Central until I sprinted for a 320. This is a normal occurrence here.

The delay you faced yesterday probably had to do with some unannounced traffic signal installation at King George & 88th Ave, closing a lane and tying up the entirety of KGB NB from 72nd to 88th. If you meant today, I reckon it is probably also that.

I was caught in the delay too - was trying to get to Kwantlen U and was wondering what was going on until I passed the fray on the SB 321 and saw a traffic jam and bunched buses. The resulting bus bunching created a 30 minute gap in service, and further delays on 320, 321 and 337 service. Hopefully that was a one-time occurrence.... I haven't been into Surrey in awhile so if it has been occuring on a daily basis, I do know the construction has been ongoing for a few weeks (and they do it in the daytime, pretty much screwing over everyone in the process).

@Dkaz I took the 555 from 156 St earlier this afternoon - spotted a passenger deboard a mostly filled eastbound bus. Heading inbound, the congestion at the Brunette Ave offramp is really taking a toll on on-time commutes though (the new interchange design just really mucks things up - it's that new traffic signal), so I hope the Government St off-ramp opens soon to solve it. Until then the time savings are probably barely being realized.

go_leafs_go02 · #**12407** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 12:55 AM**

New details are up about the Carvolth to Chilliwack bus planned for BC Transit:

http://www.bctransit.com/transitfuture/fvx_latestupdates.cfm

A few details

REasonable fares, $6.00 cash per direction, $5.40 with a fare saver book.

Starts at Carvolth, note there seems to be no plans to open the 202 Street eastbound HOV ramps up, and the bus will loop around via 200 Street to get to Highway 1 eastbound. Hope they can change this, because this small improvement would save easily 3-5 minutes depending on the time of day.

Hope they can have highway coaches with built in wi-fi for additional passenger comfort. You're looking at minimum 30 minutes on the bus, at higher speeds. Not sure if BC Transit has highway coaches or not, so this could be introduced with conventional buses for starters.

memememe76 · #**12408** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 2:11 AM**

I LOVE the 96B. The frequency is really good. That 25 minute wait must have been due to a traffic/accident issue.

That said, I wished the bus stops for 96B and 320 were closer together. 96B has better frequency but 320 stops closer to my place. As the stops are far apart, I have to make a decision to take 96B or 320. Usually, I take the 96B stop.

DKaz · #**12409** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 5:11 AM**

My 555 trip home:

6:02 left office
6:06 boarded expo line
6:14 boarded millennium line
6:35 arrived at braid
6:37 boarded 555, left right away
6:45 disembarked 555
6:49 got to car
7:02 got home

ssiguy · #**12410** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 6:55 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Ahh, grasshopper, you do not understand the Way Of Things. Capacity won't be increased unless it's outstripped by demand. Demand won't increase (as much) unless you build large scale developments.

Build it, and they will come.

"Build it and they will come"........that's the problem because once they come there is no where for them to go {or at least no train to get them there}. The Canada Line is already at capacity. It is running at 5500 pphpd and capacity is 6000, technically. That 6000 pphpd is basically crush load which means it assumes no one is carrying any bags or luggage........not a great assumption on a line heavily used by shoppers, students, and air travellers..........the line is at capacity.

I agree that having a train at the beginning of a station is prudent and very common and in most subway systems, the rule rather than the exception. This, however, is not a standard subway line, it's a system that was built on the cheap so the ideal of leaving a train at Waterfront greatly inhibits capacity on an already low capacity system.

With all the developments planned for the line there will simply not be enough trains to carry them and as I said earlier, the trains are not only short but thin and dangerously so. When I was commuting downtown I arrived at Bridgeport and there was always a line at where the doors are suppose to be when the next train arrives. If it came from Richmond, the line didn't move and then only trains you got on were from YVR.

At times it was down right dangerous because every line was long enough that they went across the station to the other track. People were standing on the yellow warning strip for the other track.

Until they get rid of the Waterfront trains, twin the Richmond City track and get a lot more trains then development on the line should be halted. It's one thing to be squeezed on the train but quite another when waiting for it becomes dangerous.

ssiguy · #**12411** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 7:04 AM**

On another note in regards to the Langley/Braid bus.

I've often wondered why Vancouver doesn't have any commuter buses for the Valley like Toronto's GO.

I totally understand that it was not an option before the new Port Mann because there were no HOV lanes to Langley and the Port Mann was so busy that the buses couldn't keep to any form of timetable. Now, however, there doesn't seem tom be much excuse.

Commuter buses from Aldergrove, Langley, Cloverdale, and Guildford could take HWY#1 and get off/on at Braid like the new bus does now but continue towards downtown via the HOV lanes. Currently there is no interchange for Broadway which is a good thing as one could be built strictly for buses to get on/off. The wouldn't need to go downtown but just to Commercial Station and then use that monstrous loop like the 99BLine does to head back to the suburbs.

The Valley to Braid station is already done and the HOV go all the way to Broadway so just a on/off ramp for buses and voila. It would greatly reduce time travel from the Valley to Vancouver City and would relieve a lot of the congestion on the Expo Line.

xd_1771 · #**12412** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 7:26 AM**

Took 555 home today and noticed another woman leaving the bus with me. Looks like there definitely is some exposure - she mentioned being very stoked for the stop's arrival.

The first promotional piece on the stop on The Province is now up!

bardak · #**12413** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 2:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

"Build it and they will come"........that's the problem because once they come there is no where for them to go {or at least no train to get them there}. The Canada Line is already at capacity. It is running at 5500 pphpd and capacity is 6000, technically. That 6000 pphpd is basically crush load which means it assumes no one is carrying any bags or luggage........not a great assumption on a line heavily used by shoppers, students, and air travellers..........the line is at capacity.

I agree that having a train at the beginning of a station is prudent and very common and in most subway systems, the rule rather than the exception. This, however, is not a standard subway line, it's a system that was built on the cheap so the ideal of leaving a train at Waterfront greatly inhibits capacity on an already low capacity system.

With all the developments planned for the line there will simply not be enough trains to carry them and as I said earlier, the trains are not only short but thin and dangerously so. When I was commuting downtown I arrived at Bridgeport and there was always a line at where the doors are suppose to be when the next train arrives. If it came from Richmond, the line didn't move and then only trains you got on were from YVR.

At times it was down right dangerous because every line was long enough that they went across the station to the other track. People were standing on the yellow warning strip for the other track.

Until they get rid of the Waterfront trains, twin the Richmond City track and get a lot more trains then development on the line should be halted. It's one thing to be squeezed on the train but quite another when waiting for it becomes dangerous.

The frequency on the canada line can be brought down to every 2 minutes without any real change to the line and it could be lower if they stopped storing a train at waterfront. The only reason the store a train at waterfront right now is because they can.

If you reduce the headways to 2 minutes you increase the capacity by 57%. All that needs to be done is buying more trains to keep the spare ratio decent. During the Olympics I believe the headways were close to or less than every 2 minutes.

I'm a daily commuter on the line who uses bridgeport in the peak and I have never seen lineups like you have stated. People will wait for a train from the airport rather than getting on a train from richmond but anyone who wants to get on a train from richmond can and do go on.

go_leafs_go02 · #**12414** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 4:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

On another note in regards to the Langley/Braid bus.

I've often wondered why Vancouver doesn't have any commuter buses for the Valley like Toronto's GO.

I totally understand that it was not an option before the new Port Mann because there were no HOV lanes to Langley and the Port Mann was so busy that the buses couldn't keep to any form of timetable. Now, however, there doesn't seem tom be much excuse.

Commuter buses from Aldergrove, Langley, Cloverdale, and Guildford could take HWY#1 and get off/on at Braid like the new bus does now but continue towards downtown via the HOV lanes. Currently there is no interchange for Broadway which is a good thing as one could be built strictly for buses to get on/off. The wouldn't need to go downtown but just to Commercial Station and then use that monstrous loop like the 99BLine does to head back to the suburbs.

The Valley to Braid station is already done and the HOV go all the way to Broadway so just a on/off ramp for buses and voila. It would greatly reduce time travel from the Valley to Vancouver City and would relieve a lot of the congestion on the Expo Line.

Problem is with TransLink's coverage area (Metro Vancouver)versus GO Transit. GO Transit typically covers transit from a regional perspective, while there are still individual transit services in each company that they provide connections too.

GO Transit could extend service to Windsor, Ottawa if they wished. TransLink is largely limited by the Abbotsford/Langley boundary for their coverage area.

Hope the Fraser Valley Express is successful, and maybe there can be future extensions to connect directly to Skytrain, but I think a transfer to the 555 for now will be good, and see how demand is out to Abbotsford Chilliwack.

DKaz · #**12415** Posted **Sep 4, 2014, 7:27 PM**

Another triple 5 adventure this morning.

7:27 left house
7:41 arrived at 107 ave, parked car
7:44 arrived at stop
7:50 boarded bus
7:58 arrived at beginning of exit 40
8:03 arrived at braid
8:08 boarded train toward Waterfront (it came first)
8:43 arrived at office at Stadium

The backup on Exit 40 definitely delays the westbound trip, and the stars didn't align and all that other stuff. The Government St. bus ramp can't open soon enough.

ssiguy · #**12416** Posted **Sep 5, 2014, 3:57 AM**

It's true GO is more regional but mission isn't part of Translink but that didn't stop Westcoast Express.

Metro-One · #**12417** Posted **Sep 5, 2014, 4:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bardak

The frequency on the canada line can be brought down to every 2 minutes without any real change to the line and it could be lower if they stopped storing a train at waterfront. The only reason the store a train at waterfront right now is because they can.

If you reduce the headways to 2 minutes you increase the capacity by 57%. All that needs to be done is buying more trains to keep the spare ratio decent. During the Olympics I believe the headways were close to or less than every 2 minutes.

I'm a daily commuter on the line who uses bridgeport in the peak and I have never seen lineups like you have stated. People will wait for a train from the airport rather than getting on a train from richmond but anyone who wants to get on a train from richmond can and do go on.

I have this argument with ssiguy about once a month, dont waste your energy, he never listens.

I also use to use the Canada Line everyday and never had a problem.

He will also never admit that you have corrected him (He use to state that there is no expansion in mind, I informed him of the future 3 car 50 meter set up, he never admitted I was right).

So now i see he is claiming there is no plan to buy new cars, which there is in the mayors proposal, and even with our current setup frequency can be increased.

Wait, why am I doing this again, he will just spout the same lying bullshit about the Canada Line again in a few weeks.

MIPS · #**12418** Posted **Sep 5, 2014, 6:11 PM**

Someone left one of the doors open in the Bombardier building and I got to sneak a peek at a train and a half being refurb'd from the parking lot.

WarrenC12 · #**12419** Posted **Sep 5, 2014, 6:59 PM**

Slowest... project... ever.

officedweller · #**12420** Posted **Sep 5, 2014, 7:06 PM**

Thanks for the pic of the MKI!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I've often wondered why Vancouver doesn't have any commuter buses for the Valley like Toronto's GO.

Transit in GVRD / Metro Vancouver is under one agency - TransLink - so there is no duplication of service with Westcoast Express and regional buses.

TransLink buses feed into TransLink regional services.

Westcoast Express has a "train-bus" for those that miss the trains - and the transit buses feed into the WCE stations.

Similarly, duplication of service was eliminated for South of Fraser areas when Canada Line opened up and commuter buses from White Rock and South Surrey were fed into Canada Line.

The 555 also reflects this pattern, since it feeds into SkyTrain, rather than imposing the added cost and burden of the bus being driven all the way to downtown Vancouver.