YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

it looks like they have changed the security for pier b - when i walked through yesterday after arriving it seemed different from the other side, will find out when i use it next week looks like there is more space for lining up now

security there has shifted, its been moved to the right and feels more open, the old security area is all blocked off now, it will be great if it is enlarged and more like the other gates which air canada uses - but waiting in there for a westjet flight feels so ghetto

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Looks like Westjet is really getting cozy with YVR's Asian carriers.

..........................
So WS now going to be code sharing with CI along with CZ, MU, KE, JL, CX ex YVR. Pretty much all non Star Alliance carriers (CA, BR and NH) (gee I wonder why). The only remaining carriers would be Philippine and Sichuan... But could see that happening too.

Really a good way of shoring up connecting traffic.

Do you think Westjet might join an airline alliance? Is it large enough?
Is there a possibility of its being accepted by Skytem or OneWorld?
Is WJ interested in doing so?

[Canadian74]

They probably need a proper premium cabin before joining any alliance.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Do you think Westjet might join an airline alliance? Is it large enough?
Is there a possibility of its being accepted by Skytem or OneWorld?
Is WJ interested in doing so?

I'm not sure it make a whole lot of sense to choose an alliance yet. In Vancouver, at least, Star Alliance is a super strong alliance. United, Air Canada, Air China, ANA, Air NZ, Lufthansa, EVA all have major routes here. WestJet actually needs both OneWorld AND SkyTeam to be able to compete with Air Canada internationally and grow up to be "Canadian Airlines 2.0"

OneWorld has traditionally been more premium/exclusive (BA, Cathay, JAL, Qantas...) and WestJet's not really there yet. By choosing Airlines, they can get the strengths of SkyTeam & OneWorld in Asia(JAL, CX, Korean Air) and the strength of OneWorld & SkyTeam in Europe(BA, AF, KLM). In addition, they scoop up China Eastern and China Southern to fill out the rest of Asia.

At this point, for an airline its size, its strategy is sound not to join an alliance and lose either BA & JAL or CX,KE,KLM and AF.

I suspect it may decide to join SkyTeam one day, but it would be a loss of prestige to lose both BA and JAL (not to mention AA for US connections). It really depends on how WestJet wants to position itself in the next decade. Also, the last year has seen some rough waters for SkyTeam... so I'd imagine WestJet would want to carefully consider such a big change before committing anyhow

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

as for flying out of seattle, my friends flew to new york last year from seattle it was $335 all taxes fees etc included each, even staying a night in seattle and the bus cost to get there worked out cheaper for them than taking the equivalent flight from YVR, the same flight at that time when they looked was just over $700 each and i think the only airport option was newark, they flew into JFK from seattle

From YVR, you'll typically fly into Newark, as it's a United hub. Cathay Pacific has a flight to JFK.

That being said, the two airports are pretty much identical timewise if you're taking the train into town.

$335 is dirt cheap, though. You typically will pay $500, though I've seen it around $450 from YVR.

[SpongeG]

i paid $635 taxes etc incl. to fly from edmonton to new york i had to fly via houston texas. they now have a direct flight from edmonton to new york (newark) which started about 2 months after i flew, i think its seasonal though. I might go to new york in october from edmonton again.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

I'm not sure it make a whole lot of sense to choose an alliance yet.

Exactly. Their strategy is best to stay out of an alliance.... for now at least. By carefully building up decent airline-by-airline agreements they can do that to best strategise their network. Join an alliance and, most likely, lose a huge chunk of those overnight. Some airlines do maintain code-shares outside their alliance though.

Seems to be working for them in YVR anyway.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

From YVR, you'll typically fly into Newark, as it's a United hub. Cathay Pacific has a flight to JFK.

From YVR you can fly non-stop to:

EWR on AC (year-round) or UA (summer seasonal)
JFK on CX (year-round) or DL (summer seasonal)

There are very strong hints that PR will also commence flights from Manila to New York via YVR. Whether these flights go into EWR or JFK though? If that does happen, this route may be getting just a tad crowded.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

they now have a direct flight from edmonton to new york (newark) which started about 2 months after i flew, i think its seasonal though. I might go to new york in october from edmonton again.

You might want to get onto that quickly. United is discontinuing the route on 24 October due to the flight "not meeting their expectations." No indication this route is coming back or being made seasonal though.

[Johnny Aussie]

Nice little video update showing how this project is really taking shape and some more details of what's inside, above and underneath :-).

Also a good highlight of what they are doing to speed international <---> domestic connections as part of "The Gateway Project." This will come in handy for Westjet and all their code share partners ;-)

Looking good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

There are very strong hints that PR will also commence flights from Manila to New York via YVR. Whether these flights go into EWR or JFK though? If that does happen, this route may be getting just a tad crowded.

I took PR from EWR to YVR back when they flew the route using MD-11s before it got canceled. There were maybe 15 people on the entire plane. If my experience was anywhere indicative of their loads, PR was bleeding money big-time. With the added competition, I'm sure how different it would be for PR this time around.

[YYCguys]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Also a good highlight of what they are doing to speed international <---> domestic connections as part of "The Gateway Project." This will come in handy for Westjet and all their code share partners ;-)

Looking good!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPJDln6XY4g

What is the Gateway Project?

A recent guest on my plane (SFO to YVR) asked me about connecting in YVR to her flight to China and didn't use the words Gateway Project but was under the impression that she didn't have to clear Canadian customs in YVR as she was transiting to China. Is this the Gateway Project that she is referring to? And if so, how is it possible to avoid customs when one is entering another country?

[Cage]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

What is the Gateway Project?

A recent guest on my plane (SFO to YVR) asked me about connecting in YVR to her flight to China and didn't use the words Gateway Project but was under the impression that she didn't have to clear Canadian customs in YVR as she was transiting to China. Is this the Gateway Project that she is referring to? And if so, how is it possible to avoid customs when one is entering another country?

Yes pax can clear from us to international and international to international without seeing primary inspection line at CBSA. The sterile transfer area is located on international arrivals connecting corridor immediately to the right of the escalators to CBSA primary inspection line. The transfer pax still see CBSA Agent however just a brief stop to confirm appropriate documents and they are through to international departures area.
The above described process is not gateway project. I don't have a definitive description of the YVR gateway project, however it appears to be anything related to establishing YVR as the primary gateway to Asia.
As to the concept of having international or transborder pax arrive on the A-B side of the airport, bring your walking shoes folks. The only benefactor of this strategy would be WS ops, they could turn around aircraft a lot quicker by gating most inbound transborder flights on the AB side. However without secondary CBSA processing area, all pax would have to shlep over to international terminal. Connecting pax get a double dose of exercise as they walk back to AB concourse to catch their domestic flight.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Cage

Yes pax can clear from us to international and international to international without seeing primary inspection line at CBSA. The sterile transfer area is located on international arrivals connecting corridor immediately to the right of the escalators to CBSA primary inspection line. The transfer pax still see CBSA Agent however just a brief stop to confirm appropriate documents and they are through to international departures area. ..........

What is the sterile tansfer area, please?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by YYCguys

What is the Gateway Project?

A recent guest on my plane (SFO to YVR) asked me about connecting in YVR to her flight to China and didn't use the words Gateway Project but was under the impression that she didn't have to clear Canadian customs in YVR as she was transiting to China. Is this the Gateway Project that she is referring to? And if so, how is it possible to avoid customs when one is entering another country?

That's the term the engineer used in the clip. Perhaps something they are working on.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

I took PR from EWR to YVR back when they flew the route using MD-11s before it got canceled. There were maybe 15 people on the entire plane. If my experience was anywhere indicative of their loads, PR was bleeding money big-time. With the added competition, I'm sure how different it would be for PR this time around.

Yeah PR beats to a different drum for sure. Not sure how they'll do but they sure seem determined to do it. On the other hand the market has changed a lot in the last 10 years. Immigration from The Philippines has exploded since then. I don't doubt the YVR-MNL segment but with so many options from NYC-Asia I don't see this as a sure winner as any pax would have to one-stop somewhere. And like I said, the YVR-NYC route is gonna be crowded if it does happen... but really sounds like it is.

I wish that Tourism Report for Alberta had Philippines data as I bet that is one market that has increased one of the highest in that period. VFR mainly of course.

[Genauso]

Canada Post sorting facility at Sea Island

In this month's Globe and Mail magazine, they did a feature on Canada Post and the location to best exemplify their strategy was the new Richmond sorting facility. The online version does not have the photographs, but it does have a quirky video.

Video (make sure to enable all cookies)
Article

Judging by the photos/video, the sorting lines only had 20-50% of the trays occupied. I think the downtown location is still in use, perhaps just for downtown deliveries, but I am guessing they would prefer to switch over to the new automated facility before the Christmas season surge.

Judging by the article's comments, Canada Post's e-commerce/parcel strategy is still but a veneer and leaning heavily on unique integration with their largest shippers. They do after all enforce copyright on postal code maps or the use thereof.

Still, they are the better than the alternative at UPS for customs brokerage fees, speed that doesn't involve multiple stops on the way to their single hub in Louisville, and price. I hope they do well, soon offer the same services to small businesses as they are doing with their biggest clients, and contribute to significantly reducing the price differential of retail items across the border.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

What is the sterile tansfer area, please?

Sterile transfer area is a space behind security where pax from international origins walk to primary inspection line. The are is considered sterile because pax cannot mix with other types ( eg domestic, international departures, etc.).

However the YVRAA calls this area intransit facility. In transit facility processes the following connecting passenger types, international origin pax destined to USA, international arrival pax destined to international city.

[Johnny Aussie]

This seems to be the biggest jump in capacity in winter scheds for years, if not ever at YVR.

So about 68 daily - 43 mainline (including rouge due to size of a/c) and about 25 Express-ish.

Comparing to last winter:

GAINS

AIR CANADA

HNL - rouged - 1 daily 763 (up from 6 weekly 763 mainline)
OGG - rouged - 1 daily 763 (up from 6 weekly 763 mainline)
LAS - rouged - 2 daily 319 (up from 1 daily mainline 320)
LAX - rouged - 1 daily 763 and 2 daily 319 (up from 4 daily E90s)
PSP **NEW** - 3 weekly rouge 319
PHX **NEW** - daily rouge 319
SFO - rouged - 3 daily 319 (up from 3 daily mainline E90s)

ALASKA

LAX - increase in capacity due to 739s on most flights

AMERICAN

LAX **NEW** - 2 daily CR9s

DELTA

LAX **NEW** - seasonal daily E75 for about 3 weeks over peak Xmas period
SEA **NEW** - 4 daily CR7
MSP - up 2 weekly to 14 weekly E75s

UNITED

ORD - increases to 3 daily for 3 weeks over peak Xmas period. Increases to 4 daily effective 12 Feb (about 2 months earlier than usual for that increase)
SFO - increases to 5 daily for 3 weeks over the peak Xmas period (more Express flying during this period)

WESTJET

PSP - increases by one weekly over the peak winter period. Westjet seems to have put the brakes on transborder capacity this winter.

LOSSES

DL - SLC - down 4 weekly to 7 weekly only
UA - IAH - down 1 weekly to 7 weekly only

And I think that's it.... for now

[Genauso]

I thought I was being emphatically positive by going out of my way to format and explicitly compare YVR to HKG. Yes YVR has good service today. I care less about direct flights to Europe, it does make sense to go through at least one hub in my opinion and that's unlikely to change. I wasn't asking for direct flights throughout the southern hemisphere, a better connection to Miami or a Texas hub would be smart though.

If I veered negative, it was just to build a moment of tension to set the stage for a future of positive change.

North Pacific air route development: Part 4. Japan's hub role diminishes; Partnerships remain weak
CAPA > Aviation Analysis > North Pacific air route development: Part 4. Japan's hub role diminishes; Partnerships remain weak
26th August, 2014
summary: Japan is still competing hard, but the USA and China are now paying more attention and resources to growing market share.


Wanting to be better is not a bad thing. I think Copenhagen is similar enough in many ways for it to be a good place for Vancouver to learn from. Look at where they were 94 years ago = )
With trans-polar flights at the testing stage and the northwest passage opening to Arctic shipping, Vancouver will think differently of itself in the future. There's room to bring add a Finland, Sweden, and Norway to our coasts to fly back and forth with.
Principal Airline routes of the world.
source: London Geographical Society, circa 1920