Calgary Public Transit II

[Comet]

Just a question for those more knowledgeable on the subject: Now that we know the alignment what is everyone's opinion on Centre street development going forward? I would assume now that we have some level of certainty as to the route it would give developers/property owners a little more confidence.
Any thoughts? New Marda loop type area or 36 St NE type area (adjusted scale of course)?

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Comet

Just a question for those more knowledgeable on the subject: Now that we know the alignment what is everyone's opinion on Centre street development going forward? I would assume now that we have some level of certainty as to the route it would give developers/property owners a little more confidence.
Any thoughts? New Marda loop type area or 36 St NE type area (adjusted scale of course)?

Short answer is no, the plans for the Nose Creek alignment have been to this level for decades, until there is a tunnel boring machine in the ground nothing is for sure. Council could always completely overrule the studies and put it on edmonton tr or nose creek again.

Don't get me wrong I'm ecstatic that Centre was chosen; I'm just pessimistic that it will get funded before a change in government (city or provincial).

[MalcolmTucker]

If I was the city I would place a DP freeze on 100m from the corridor for a year until the near final corridor width requirements are known. No point having to buy out a higher density development unnecessarily.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

If I was the city I would place a DP freeze on 100m from the corridor for a year until the near final corridor width requirements are known. No point having to buy out a higher density development unnecessarily.

That and immediately begin concurrent work on a ARP (or revisions) for each major section, 2-3 of them total.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Short answer is no, the plans for the Nose Creek alignment have been to this level for decades, until there is a tunnel boring machine in the ground nothing is for sure. Council could always completely overrule the studies and put it on edmonton tr or nose creek again.

Don't get me wrong I'm ecstatic that Centre was chosen; I'm just pessimistic that it will get funded before a change in government (city or provincial).

No money until post 2017 doesn't mean no shovels. Hopefully simultaneous to the SE LRT. If the city holds off on committing to other new investments (beyond the current wave of rec centres, libraries, etc) I think it is very realistic.

Extend the $52 million fund tax to 30 years after opening day, feds step in with gas tax and building canada at around 10-15% (~500-700 million), and the rest provincial gas tax and msi. Would have to be a long term commitment, which the city and province may chafe a bit under.

It may make sense to wait to tender until after a bit of a market dip, but timing that is impossible (beyond the post 2020 oil sands new capital investment drop off), and the dip might not be as high as the years' you spent waiting construction inflation.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

No money until post 2017 doesn't mean no shovels. Hopefully simultaneous to the SE LRT. If the city holds off on committing to other new investments (beyond the current wave of rec centres, libraries, etc) I think it is very realistic.

Extend the $52 million fund tax to 30 years after opening day, feds step in with gas tax and building canada at around 10-15% (~500-700 million), and the rest provincial gas tax and msi. Would have to be a long term commitment, which the city and province may chafe a bit under.

It may make sense to wait to tender until after a bit of a market dip, but timing that is impossible (beyond the post 2020 oil sands new capital investment drop off), and the dip might not be as high as the years' you spent waiting construction inflation.

Oh I agree it could be done, just not sure if there is the political will to get it funded (through the means you mention) before the next provincial election, though the current turmoil at the provincial level could play into the projects favour.

[fusili]

If they start with dedicated transit lanes on Centre in 2017, I think they can really get the ball rolling on this.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Oh I agree it could be done, just not sure if there is the political will to get it funded (through the means you mention) before the next provincial election, though the current turmoil at the provincial level could play into the projects favour.

A new infrastructure deal will come before the provincial election. The question becomes does Calgary put transit at #1 (like Edmonton has done) and ignore other projects for a bit, or continue the current spread of projects and complain about the pot not being big enough to build everything on the wish list.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A new infrastructure deal will come before the provincial election. The question becomes does Calgary put transit at #1 (like Edmonton has done) and ignore other projects for a bit, or continue the current spread of projects and complain about the pot not being big enough to build everything on the wish list.

Ultimately rests on Farrell, Carra, and Keating getting enough votes from the non affected quadrants, since Chu can't seem to find his head on the topic.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/North+central+down+Centre+Street/10151597/story.html



Sean Chu defies common sense, facts and general logic once again. News at 11.

Worst. Councillor. Ever.

Wonder what he heard during his door knocking and if he listened....

[*Stardust*]

Here is the money for the Green Line. All we have to do is ask nicely

http://www.calgaryherald.com/touch/story.html?id=10153589

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Originally Posted by *Stardust*

Here is the money for the Green Line. All we have to do is ask nicely

http://www.calgaryherald.com/touch/story.html?id=10153589

I'm going to be mad if we don't ask .. There is an opportunity here! At least get funding for part of the NC/SELRT lines!!

[MalcolmTucker]

^ There isn't an opportunity there. Any extra spent from this budget year would mean either drawing down our rainy day fund (Contingency Account) or borrowing more.

[H.E.Pennypacker]

Well, shit .. Nevermind then

[*Stardust*]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^ There isn't an opportunity there. Any extra spent from this budget year would mean either drawing down our rainy day fund (Contingency Account) or borrowing more.

What about next years budget? And what about federal money?

[MalcolmTucker]

^ The provincial government has to catch up on MSI to fulfill the original funding plan to 2017. The coming budget could set the formula for 2017 onwards to allow projects to start. Federally there is money, it just isn't much. Don't expect more than $500 million for this over ten years.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by speedog

Memorial Drive versus Centre Street - not really a fair comparison as the environment/development along the sides of these two roads is completely different in nature.

Centre north of 24th already only has pedestrian crossings every few hundred metres, and this area is mainly residential - realistically how much pedestrian crossing traffic will there be, and should those few numbers be prioritised over the thousands using an LRT?

[joe498]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A new infrastructure deal will come before the provincial election. The question becomes does Calgary put transit at #1 (like Edmonton has done) and ignore other projects for a bit, or continue the current spread of projects and complain about the pot not being big enough to build everything on the wish list.

Frankly the only things that should be on this province and cities mind at the moment is: schools & infrastructure.

At the rate this province and city is growing, it is insanity to not be accelerating these things. (2040: Calgary 2.4 million, Edmonton 2.1 million)

Communities are popping up all over the city with no schools or transit and unfortunately those are the only communities new residents can afford. The further these communities go, the pricier future infrastructure costs will be. If quality transit is available, high density housing in proximity to transit makes more sense. People do compromise on choice of residence if they can get to work more efficiently.

Inner city is only going to continue to become more dense and expensive. By 2040 it will be that much denser, let alone the increased cost of construction. Acquire land while it is cheaper asap.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by *Stardust*

Here is the money for the Green Line. All we have to do is ask nicely

http://www.calgaryherald.com/touch/story.html?id=10153589

Funny thing is, the closer you examine the "surplus" you find it is actually a deficit of 3.1b+, not including deferred school repairs / construction. This is just sneaky PC accounting.

[*Stardust*]

This is very concerning. This Green Line and the downtown subway should be high priorities. Anything we can do? Maybe I should write to my MLA. I think if people speak up then it might make a difference?