PHILADELPHIA | Lowrise/General Developments Thread

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

The building will not actually be built on top of the garage. It will be built next to it. The area is not that big so whatever is being built will go vertical. The garage itself is 3 floors below ground, 5 above. Note that the first floor above ground will be rather large because it will serve as a bus station.

So the future building will be in front of the garage (when viewed from Civic Center Boulevard) as contemplated in GarCastle's post #1332?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=6451344#post6451344

And what kind of bus station? SEPTA? Or for Penn or CHOP buses circulating among the various campuses/facilities?

[Parkway]

Originally Posted by McBane

This project reminds me of Lancaster Sq in Univ City in that it's impact punches far above its height. Both projects are not that tall but are massive overall and contain significant retail components.

What's more is that the inclusion of a Whole Foods gives this stretch of the BFP a visible and legitimate retail/food component. Currently the only options are dudes selling drinks out of coolers and the poorly located Cafe Cret.

Well that and the existing whole foods around the corner. However it will be nice to have a bigger space for that store.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

^^^ You weren't kidding...

Awesome pics man! Thx!

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by Philly Fan

So the future building will be in front of the garage (when viewed from Civic Center Boulevard) as contemplated in GarCastle's post #1332?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=6451344#post6451344

And what kind of bus station? SEPTA? Or for Penn or CHOP buses circulating among the various campuses/facilities?

That's correct. If you are walking down Civic Center the building will block the garage. GarCastle is correct, the footprint of the building is about 1/3 the total site, maybe a little less than that when seeing it in person. Good news in the sense that it will go vertical pending the space needed/Brandywine decides to build.

The bus station will be for Penn and Chop. There will be the DLC shuttle buses and the Lucy bus. There may be others as I have not heard final plans on it. Basically instead of waiting out on the street as they do now from HUP51 lot, there will be a room or/and cover in case of bad weather. HUP51 and the new lot are co-owned by Chop and Penn and ran by Impark aka DLC.

[shadowbat2]

Here are the renderings posted by GarCastle back in February

I see the garage cladding has already changed (bummer they got rid of that diamond design) I just hope they keep that beveled glass....

[Aaamazarite]

Originally Posted by shadowbat2

Here are the renderings posted by GarCastle back in February

Thanks-- I new I had seen them somewhere-- I should have known it was right here!

[McBane]

Originally Posted by TallCoolOne

Thanks for all the updates!

One random question - and I'm sure this isn't an original thought - but with the Dilworth Plaza rebirth now almost complete,.. and I've read about future plans for LOVE Park ... so, why isn't the area around the Municipal Services Building re-done. It's just a huge piece on concrete with some monopoly pieces and Frank Rizzo (waving like the old Saddaam Hussein statue). If all that area to the east of the building was -- say a big lawn, trees, plants, a few wooden benches ... it could really beautify things, No?

Here's my take: The city does NOT need three public plazas on one street corner. http://goo.gl/maps/VAiXp.

There's only so many people to go around and at some point, the parks are going to cannibalize each other. And if there's one thing about parks - if they're not visited by "normal folk", they get taken over by the homeless. So better to have two crowded parks than three sparsely visited ones, you know?

The city should save their money and sell the MSB plaza to a developer - there is enough land here for a tall building. Better yet, give it AND the MSB away to a developer in exchange for development rights and a new MSB, because the existing one is hideous.

[MusicMan84]

Originally Posted by Parkway

Well that and the existing whole foods around the corner. However it will be nice to have a bigger space for that store.

[1487]

Originally Posted by McBane

Here's my take: The city does NOT need three public plazas on one street corner. http://goo.gl/maps/VAiXp.

There's only so many people to go around and at some point, the parks are going to cannibalize each other. And if there's one thing about parks - if they're not visited by "normal folk", they get taken over by the homeless. So better to have two crowded parks than three sparsely visited ones, you know?

The city should save their money and sell the MSB plaza to a developer - there is enough land here for a tall building. Better yet, give it AND the MSB away to a developer in exchange for development rights and a new MSB, because the existing one is hideous.

I would not sell MSB, that building has first class materials inside and whatever replaced it would be cheap by comparison. The building itself is not the issue, the island it was built on is the issue. Plus its tied into concourse and has lower levels specially designed for public functions. Where would you build a new MSB that would be so centrally located?

[McBane]

Sorry I wasn't clear 1487. In my "fantasy", the developer would level the entire site and build two structures, one of which would be a new MSB.

But agreed that the site (setback, grading, and needless plaza) is moreso the problem than the building itself.

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by 1487

The building itself is not the issue, the island it was built on is the issue.

Unfortunately the two are inextricably connected. The MSB's interaction with the city serves one person: Kling. The city somehow OK'd his monument valley (including Penn Center) and it's a complete failure. Sitting on some ridiculous pedestal that so harshly greets the actual street (not its worthless plaza) that unless your intention is to actually walk inside the structure you'll never actually get within 30 feet of it due to the granite fortifications. The dungeon entrance on Arch Street is offensive to people with brains. I mean shouldn't a building for the city, paid for by the people of the city be more inviting than that?

I'm just not sure how you can correct these woes without a total re-do (or a massive, massive street level renovation).

[Flyers2001]

-Just as we were talking, Crane on site at Penn Garage site on Civic Center. Expect work to move very fast on this.

- Driving by Mormon Temple each day it is very impressive looking. This building is going to be awesome looking when completed and a welcome addition along Vine. I can not wait to see what it will look like at night.

- Does anyone know the status of approval for Canal Street Project? They have gutted the building and replaced much of the glass. They are now replacing rooftop. I am super excited for them to redo this building as it was a huge eye sore. This are transformation is down right amzing from 5-7 years ago.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

Driving by Mormon Temple each day it is very impressive looking. This building is going to be awesome looking when completed and a welcome addition along Vine. I can not wait to see what it will look like at night.

Indeed--the details will be stunning. It will look as if it's been there for a century or more (and hopefully will have revealing uplighting at night):

[Guipos08]

Looking at the Mormon Temple rendering above ^, I finally just realized in the rendering that they have they expressway capped over. Maybe this is something in the future that they will do. I think it needs to be capped from Broad St. to 21st.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Guipos08

Looking at the Mormon Temple rendering above ^, I finally just realized in the rendering that they have they expressway capped over. Maybe this is something in the future that they will do. I think it needs to be capped from Broad St. to 21st.

I would like to see it capped from 10th Street to 22nd honestly and we shouldn't settle for any less.

Think, with this section of the Vine Street Expressway capped, it would connect the Ben Franklin Parkway to the future Reading Viaduct Park with continuous green space. One could walk along the Reading Viaduct Park, through Vine Street Parkway, through the Ben Franklin Parkway, through Fairmount Park, through the Wissahickon. Miles upon miles of continuous green space.

[Guipos08]

Has there been any movement on the Reading Viaduct?...and yes that would be a massive amount of green space that each park could play off one another creating a city wide greenway

[rricci]

Originally Posted by summersm343

I would like to see it capped from 10th Street to 22nd honestly and we shouldn't settle for any less.

I attended a presentation by PennDot and they assured that capping would never happen beyond the section they plan to do in front of the library/old family court because the infrastructure could not support that kind of weight.

I know this will be an unpopular comment, but if we get too much green space, especially concentrated green space, we will start to lose urban flavor. We already have the largest urban park in USA. When is enough green space enough green space? It's time to focus on development that will lend to urban vibrancy and contribute to the city coffers through taxes, not development that will make it feel like you're in a cow pasture, and drain the city coffers with upkeep costs.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by rricci

I attended a presentation by PennDot and they assured that capping would never happen beyond the section they plan to do in front of the library/old family court because the infrastructure could not support that kind of weight.

I know this will be an unpopular comment, but if we get too much green space, especially concentrated green space, we will start to lose urban flavor. We already have the largest urban park in USA. When is enough green space enough green space? It's time to focus on development that will lend to urban vibrancy and contribute to the city coffers through taxes, not development that will make it feel like you're in a cow pasture, and drain the city coffers with upkeep costs.

You know PennDot is saying that because they know they're the one who is responsible for the cap. There is plenty that can be done to support a park capping the Expressway. See Big Dig in Boston.

Andddd really? So you would rather a gaping hole where an Expressway runs through then some nice green space capping it and covering it up and connecting the neighborhoods to the south with the neighborhoods to the North? Hmmm... okay then.

[bawdycav]

Originally Posted by summersm343

You know PennDot is saying that because they know they're the one who is responsible for the cap. There is plenty that can be done to support a park capping the Expressway. See Big Dig in Boston.

Andddd really? So you would rather a gaping hole where an Expressway runs through then some nice green space capping it and covering it up and connecting the neighborhoods to the south with the neighborhoods to the North? Hmmm... okay then.

I agree with summersm. This isn't just about green space, it's about connection and knitting together the urban fabric from its current fragmented form.

This is also about thinking on a more macro level than block-by-block or neighborhood by neighborhood. Once you start talking about linking the viaduct park to the parkway to Fairmount Park (and by consequence all the diverse neighborhoods along its path), you create a truly powerful and navigable urban experience.

It doesnt take a ton of creativity to see what a unique urban experience this cap could create. It just takes a world class city mindset and commitment to seeing past lot-by-lot development.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by rricci

I attended a presentation by PennDot and they assured that capping would never happen beyond the section they plan to do in front of the library/old family court because the infrastructure could not support that kind of weight.

I know this will be an unpopular comment, but if we get too much green space, especially concentrated green space, we will start to lose urban flavor. We already have the largest urban park in USA. When is enough green space enough green space? It's time to focus on development that will lend to urban vibrancy and contribute to the city coffers through taxes, not development that will make it feel like you're in a cow pasture, and drain the city coffers with upkeep costs.

I don't think we are in any danger of that anytime soon. CC is generally ok on this front, but the tree cover on some streets in other areas -- and even in some center city areas -- is laughable. I also don't think any of the existing green areas detract from the urban nature of Philly. I, for one, would like to see more grassy areas in addition to cement. Beyond just an increase in tree cover. Green and tall buildings is the perfect combination. Nothing feels like a cow pasture with [well-designed] skyscrapers.