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Originally Posted by Syndic
Not when their beliefs are humanistic and in the spirit of peace and equality.
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Sorry, but I do not believe that your beliefs serve humanistic goals, nor do they best serve peace and equality. Empirically, this is shown by experience and the facts.
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Originally Posted by Syndic
Like Sweden and Norway, right? Those brutal, totalitarian regimes where cops walk around without guns, no one serves a prison sentence greater than 21 years, and everyone has free health care, college education, and even massages! Sounds terrifying! Someone should fight back against these oppressors in the name of true liberty and justice. Oh wait. |
Sweden and Norway are social democracies which use capitalize systems heavily regulated by governments. They are NOT socialist. In fact, both countries are currently led by center right governments... but ofcourse you wouldn't know that, would you, because you're so blinded by your ideological rose colored glasses.
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Originally Posted by Syndic
Do you really not understand that the problem is the division of land into individually-owed parcels? How can a herd of elk or elephants freely migrate the land when they're constantly running into fences?
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Have you seen what capitalist countries such as Canada have done? The answer to this is quite easy: require low lying fences, make sure that roads are not an encumbrance to wild-life movement through various techniques, and expansion of wildlife preserves. Private property can easily coexist with environmentalism.
But you obviously don't see the need to try.
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Originally Posted by Syndic
Is that why so much of Cuba is such pristine ecology? Because of socialist overdevelopment? Gimme a break. It's only government action that can designate vast areas of the Earth off limits to development. Look at Google Maps. The only undeveloped fertile parts are national parks and reserves.
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Cuba's situation is quite different than most other socialist economies given the embargoes placed against that country by western democracies for perfectly valid geopolitical reasons. Look, instead, to the development patterns in Russia before perestroika or China prior to the opening of their economy. Ofcourse, you lack the historical knowledge to even bother doing so. But even if you do include Cuba, not that mass genocide and exodus of its people into a capitalist country (the United States) speaks volumes about the relative success of economic systems.
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Originally Posted by Syndic
I'm not surprised that went over your head. I'm in favor of development in the right places and no development in the wrong places.
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Over my head? You are so way out of your depth here it isn't even funny.
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Originally Posted by Syndic
In hierarchical industrial civilization (of which capitalism is a predominant feature), cities require the importation of resources from rural areas. It causes cities to become more expensive, thus leading poorer citizens to move to the outskirts. Supply and demand coupled with privatized land ensures that housing will be built out there. Short of economic collapse or widespread crime, it's impossible for these citizens to move back into the city. So, it's never-ending. Cities just sprawl and sprawl under capitalism. It's unsustainable. Unregulated capitalism is unsustainable on this planet. It just doesn't work. It's not a coherent system.
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I am not advocating for unrelated capitalism. In fact, I have been quite clear that I believe that a strong capitalism requires frequent and strong governmental regulation. But, ofcourse, you choose to ignore that in favor of construing my argument in the best possible way for you to argue against (e.g. you are trying to create a straw man).
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Originally Posted by Syndic
People like you get scared when someone utters the word 'socialism'. But it's not scary. You just don't know the definition. You're thinking of communism. Socialism is just the general principle that all people should be protected from the deleterious effects of the market and that wage labor is fundamentally unfair. The poor stay poor and the rich get richer. They bleed us dry then throw us out with the waste.
This isn't a debate you can win. I've debated thousand of capitalists and, from what I can tell, you've never even encountered a real socialist before.
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You are so absolutely wrong. Socialism is the political system that leads directly to communism, in the words themselves of the great communist thinkers. Therefore, socialism and communism are by definition inseparable ideas. But, ofcourse, you aren't exactly up to speed on these things, so I'll take pity on your poor self and just say:
Move on, you're wrong, give it up, and drop it.
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