HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #9341  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 12:48 AM
wpipkins2 wpipkins2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Pass around the hat--Gateway Center is up for sale again:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...way-center-put-up-for-sale.html?page=all

It will probably just be kept office, but I always thought it would be cool to convert some of the space to residential (those towers were actually based on a residential design).
Gateway 1, 2, & 3 resemble NYC public housing projects. The stainless steel really compliments the design.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9342  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 1:29 AM
GeneW GeneW is offline
Northsider
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Pass around the hat--Gateway Center is up for sale again:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...way-center-put-up-for-sale.html?page=all

It will probably just be kept office, but I always thought it would be cool to convert some of the space to residential (those towers were actually based on a residential design).
I worked in Gateway 2 for a year and those buildings really don't work well as modern offices. The wings are kind of small and cramped and you can't really build out a open plan very well.

It didn't help that the landlord turned off the AC at 5 every day which made it a pretty inhospitable for a startup whose employees might want to work past the five o'clock whistle sometimes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9343  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 2:54 AM
Evergrey's Avatar
Evergrey Evergrey is offline
Eurosceptic
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 24,141
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneW View Post
I worked in Gateway 2 for a year and those buildings really don't work well as modern offices. The wings are kind of small and cramped and you can't really build out a open plan very well.

It didn't help that the landlord turned off the AC at 5 every day which made it a pretty inhospitable for a startup whose employees might want to work past the five o'clock whistle sometimes.
Easily my least favorite part of Downtown. This mid-century Le Corbusier nightmare is a fortress of cold sterility that dissipates the energy from the traditional streetwalls to the east.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Lubove
The expressionless stainless-steel facades of the Gateway offices tower over grass and walks: no shops, no entertainment, no restaurants of note, no nightlife"
-Roy Lubove from his 1969 book "Twentieth-Century Pittsburgh.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9344  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 3:25 AM
photoLith's Avatar
photoLith photoLith is offline
Ex Houstonian
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pittsburgh n’ at
Posts: 15,996
Yes, the front of downtown near the Point is a disaster of urban "planning". Its so lifeless and dead and horribly ugly, they should just tear all that horrible 🞵🞵🞵🞵 down, but that wont ever happen. Maybe someone at some point will have the foresight to maybe make it more pedestrian friendly and add density somehow.
__________________
Kill your lawn
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9345  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 4:15 AM
GeneW GeneW is offline
Northsider
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 657
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoLith View Post
Yes, the front of downtown near the Point is a disaster of urban "planning". Its so lifeless and dead and horribly ugly, they should just tear all that horrible 🞵🞵🞵🞵 down, but that wont ever happen. Maybe someone at some point will have the foresight to maybe make it more pedestrian friendly and add density somehow.
Well, like them or not (I do) by this time those towers are as historic as the 19th century buildings that they replaced were at the time. As a historic preservation advocate, I would protest loudly any plans to demolish Gateway Center.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9346  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 5:56 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
I agree Pittsburgh's "Little Modernia" has a lot of historic value at this point.

I also think Gateway Center north of Liberty, while not classically urban, is an oddly pleasing place. And fairly popular it would seem, as I usually see people hanging out there.

Which is almost a curse--the odd magic of Gateway Center impressed a lot of people, and yet has proven very difficult to duplicate. In fact it didn't even successfully make the leap south of Liberty.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9347  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 1:11 PM
wpipkins2 wpipkins2 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 422
Im a fan of mid century architecture. Gateway Center was the first post WW2 urban renewal project in the U.S.. I particularly like Gateway 4 for its modern simplicity. The Westinghouse building and 1, 2, & 3 Gateway held up pretty good over the years. The landscaping and fountains were a welcomed addition to the city in that time period. The former Alcoa and 500 Wm Penn Place along with Mellon Square were developed in the same decade. I appreciate both projects and they add to the diversity of downtown Pittsburgh architecture.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9348  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 2:04 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
In addition to the historic value, I'd make a few additional points:

(1) Although I agree the street-level design violates modern best practices, overall there is still a pretty good average intensity of land use. The underground parking helps a lot, and of course a lot of the park space is substituting for what would be roads in a more conventional design;

(2) Of course it is not particularly green to tear down usable structures; and

(3) The fact Little Modernia is on the western edge of Downtown with Point Park on the other side at least means it is not creating a gap within the urban fabric.

Given all this, I think it is clear far more net good can be done by focusing on developing all the existing surface parking lots in and around Downtown in a way consistent with modern best practices, rather than targeting Little Modernia for demolition.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9349  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 2:33 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: D.C.
Posts: 3,058
I love the aluminum-clad, imposing sleekness of 1, 2, and 3 Gateway Center.

These are very important buildings in Pittsburgh's history.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9350  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 2:53 PM
Austinlee's Avatar
Austinlee Austinlee is offline
Chillin' in The Burgh
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spring Hill, Pittsburgh
Posts: 12,488
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
In addition to the historic value, I'd make a few additional points:

(1) Although I agree the street-level design violates modern best practices, overall there is still a pretty good average intensity of land use. The underground parking helps a lot, and of course a lot of the park space is substituting for what would be roads in a more conventional design;

(2) Of course it is not particularly green to tear down usable structures; and

(3) The fact Little Modernia is on the western edge of Downtown with Point Park on the other side at least means it is not creating a gap within the urban fabric.

Given all this, I think it is clear far more net good can be done by focusing on developing all the existing surface parking lots in and around Downtown in a way consistent with modern best practices, rather than targeting Little Modernia for demolition.
Great points! :-)
__________________
Check out the latest developments in Pittsburgh:
Pittsburgh Rundown III
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9351  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 2:59 PM
AaronPGH's Avatar
AaronPGH AaronPGH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: PGH
Posts: 1,800
I really think there could be some easy changes that take advantage of all the green space. A large restaurant/bar with patio that extends out into the heavy tree cover. Use garage doors at ground level near the Penn Ave entrance to the complex – it could be amazing if the right operator pulled it off. And it would liven up the middle sections of that "park" area. You'd accomplish an atmosphere there that isn't possible anywhere else downtown save for if someone plunked a restaurant down in Point State Park.

Also, count me in the group that is all for saving Gateway. It took me a while of working at Gateway 1 to really fall in love with the buildings. It was a sunny day that did it – the way the sun totally lit up the subtle textures of of the metal. Beautiful stuff.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9352  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 4:27 PM
themaguffin themaguffin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,312
I like the look of the complex - in a way. I can only imagine how modern it look in the mid 1950's. At least they weren't the beige "modern" bland stuff that was also built during that era
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9353  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 12:32 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
110 acre, $100 million development planned for Rostraver:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...inte-development-rostraver.html?page=all

The plan is to market "Concord Pointe" primarily to energy companies. This is the approximate location:

https://goo.gl/maps/f6FMu

Listing:

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18818298/Municipal-Drive-and-Lynn-Road-Belle-Vernon-PA/

I'll be honest--this is not exactly my favorite form of development. However, apparently there is a shortage of this sort of space in the market, and we are talking a lot of pretty good jobs, so that's good.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9354  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 2:58 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
The Hill CDC and Hill DCG are forming one joint development review body:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...-groups-establish-joint-development.html

That seems like very good news to me--it should help streamline complex negotiations with public officials and developers (such as are ongoing about the Lower Hill site).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9355  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 3:38 PM
Austinlee's Avatar
Austinlee Austinlee is offline
Chillin' in The Burgh
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Spring Hill, Pittsburgh
Posts: 12,488
Now Arriving at Pittsburgh International: Fracking

By MATTHEW L. WALDAUG. 11, 2014


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/12/busine...airport-in-pittsburgh.html?smid=fb-share

Quote:
PITTSBURGH — Where 600 flights used to take off and land every day here at Pittsburgh International Airport, there are now about 300. Partway down Terminal B, the moving sidewalk that used to lead to a dozen gates now stops abruptly at a plain gray wall.

Pittsburgh’s airport is struggling financially and mired in debt, with sharply lower traffic ever since US Airways began phasing it out as a bustling hub in 2004. Long gone are the days when British Airways flew 747s to London, and TWA flew to Frankfurt.

For salvation, airport officials are looking down — about 6,000 feet. The quiet runways, it turns out, are sitting on enough natural gas to run the whole state of Pennsylvania for a year and a half, and this month, Consol Energy will drill its first well here to tap the gas, which county officials say will bring them nearly half a billion dollars over the next 20 years.....
__________________
Check out the latest developments in Pittsburgh:
Pittsburgh Rundown III
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9356  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 3:46 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
The gas lease revenues should help the airport get its construction debt paid down, but we should really be revisiting their receipt of 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 revenues:

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/3349670-74/airport-money-county
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9357  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 8:35 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
The SEA has given out a contract to HDR to complete preliminary engineering on the Crosstown deck-park:

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/6578459-74/authority-arena-bridge#axzz3AJ2T2UkZ

Supposedly it will take about nine months, and I will be very interested to see what they come up with.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9358  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2014, 10:58 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
Speaking of the Lower Hill negotiations, a lot of open issues remain, but apparently we may see a deal in 2-3 weeks:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/201...ex-Civic-Arena-site/stories/201408140203
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9359  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2014, 11:07 AM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
The "World Trade Center" plan for the airport is getting a state grant:

http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/6611158-74/airport-international-space#axzz3AMWrTRDG

Quote:
The public-private partnership will help develop a brownfield site into a “world-class” trade center, according to the governor's office. The site will include office space, room for research and development work, and a 400-room hotel with convention space, according to Corbett's office.
Also:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...ade-center-to-be-announced-thursday.html

Older article on the plan:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region...rt-development-plan/stories/201207100213

I believe this is the proposed location (between Montour Trail and the expressway, just west of the parking lots):

https://goo.gl/maps/4BqlB

Back in 2012 there were no developers involved yet, and they just wanted the state grant to do site prep before marketing it. I suspect that is all that is happening now, but it would be big news if they actually had a deal with a developer.

By the way, I think Kasarda's "aerotropolis" theory, mentioned in the older article, is largely BS. But I do think development around the airport makes sense and so this is the sort of greenfield (or I guess brownfield, in this case) development I don't mind.

Last edited by BrianTH; Aug 14, 2014 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9360  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2014, 2:23 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,078
Another random eyeball report: the ELTC is coming along nicely, and they are working on the last section of the parking structure on the Penn Avenue end. Having looked at it quite a lot while visualizing the planned buildings, it has become clear to me that from the Busway/Shadyside view, it is going to be a lot more visually impressive than I originally realized.

For reference, this is a typical rendering of that side:



I have realized there are at least a couple things that such three-quarter/bird's-eye views of that side fail to convey.

First, the site is very, very long. Intellectually that is obvious from such renderings or overhead views, but unless you are actually moving along beside it at Busway level, I don't think it is easy to realize just how much the site seems to keep going on and on. Overall, I think it is like 1100 feet long--for comparison, I believe the David Lawrence Convention Center is about 900 feet long:



So 1100 feet is really long.

Second, from that side, the buildings are going to seem pretty tall. Renderings like the above sort of mask the parking structure, which is undoubtedly the intent and I am sure they will in fact try to screen it. But in person, it becomes clear it is basically adding two stories to the complex--and in fact the height of the parking structure actually increases in the middle. On top of that will be 5-6 story buildings, and although they are going to be set back a bit it really won't be that much, so overall it is still going to look more like 7-8 stories from that side.

The difference between 5-6 stories and 7-8 stories may not seem like that much, but it sort of crosses a psychological threshold. Consider this handy set of buildings Downtown--subject to variances in floor heights and ignoring the addition on top of the last building, this is more or less the height comparison we are talking about:



And while the buildings on the right are substantial, to me the buildings on the left are just tall enough to start creating a bit more of a tower/wall effect.

Similarly, look again at the image of the DLCC above. There is a six-story building in the bottom right, which helps indicate that the river-side facade of the DLCC is about six stories itself. Conveniently, the level under the DLCC all the way down to the river adds around the same amount as the ELTC parking levels. So now imagine a structure like the river side of the DLCC but going all the way down to river. And now also imagine it another 200 feet wider. That is approximately what they are building right now alongside the Busway in East Liberty. And that's much more than I expected from the sort of rendering above.

Indeed, the closest I have seen in the public documents is probably the bottom part of these images in the City Planning proposals:



Interestingly, though, by putting them under the traditional three-quarter/bird's eye view, it still counteracts whatever visualization you might have gotten with just the bottom part alone. In fact unlike in the top part, in the bottom part there is an apparent lack of any scaling items (human figures, vehicles, etc.) which would aid in visualization (it would be interesting to see something like a city bus at scale in such renderings--I think it would look surprisingly small). And of course they are greying out the parking levels (the nominal purpose is to highlight the particular building they are seeking approval for).

To be fair, it is hard to do a great rendering along the lines of just the bottom part because it is so long that getting it all in requires an apparent view from a long distance (as in, we are at an apparent distance something like being across the river from the DLCC). Still, I don't recall seeing something like a Busway-level rendering looking down the whole length of the site with the buildings towering up above along one side. And I almost wonder if that is deliberate, meaning they have tried to avoid illustrating just how much visual impact this is going to have on, say, Shadyside.

Anyway, we'll all see it for real soon enough. But I am personally even more excited than before.

Last edited by BrianTH; Aug 14, 2014 at 3:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Global Projects & Construction > City Compilations
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:26 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.