Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Innsertnamehere]

Ottawas lrt will fairly easily get funding, the outside of GTA fund if anything needs more projects, its the inside GTA fund that has way more projects than money.

[S-Man]

The key to that HSR project is that it connects the tech. hub of Kitchener-Waterloo to the global gateway that is the GTA- making it much more attractive for Ontario to court Google/FB to build campuses in Waterloo if it's only 60 mins from Pearson.

Developing that tech. hub is very important to the success of the Ontario econ. going forward.

More or less.

Will those be another one of those high-tech companies Wynne is subsidizing to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per employee?

Hope the company sticks around for 30 years and their employees pay 150% of their income in taxes.

Between the billions in subsidies for select companies that might fail PLUS the billions in infrastructure needed to lure anyone International to a place one hour from Toronto (Horrors! Will there be bears?!), I'm sure there'll be tons of cash left over for projects in Ottawa. Oh, and those other places that are even FURTHER than an hour from Toronto.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Will those be another one of those high-tech companies Wynne is subsidizing to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per employee?

Hope the company sticks around for 30 years and their employees pay 150% of their income in taxes.

Between the billions in subsidies for select companies that might fail PLUS the billions in infrastructure needed to lure anyone International to a place one hour from Toronto (Horrors! Will there be bears?!), I'm sure there'll be tons of cash left over for projects in Ottawa. Oh, and those other places that are even FURTHER than an hour from Toronto.

Yeah like in northern Ontario, where it is impractical to have any form of public transit other than city bus systems. Roads and air are lifelines there.

Back on topic, yeah I think, especially for Orleans, the LRT will be the win or lose issue in the federal election as well. With the federal budget expected to be in surplus, there might be an incentive for Galipeau (and Harper).

[hwy418]

^^^
Noticed Ottawa-Orleans MPP Marie-France Lalonde (second from the left) took part in the tour as shown in the pic below...

[S-Man]

Noticed Ottawa-Orleans MPP Marie-France Lalonde (second from the left) took part in the tour as shown in the pic below...

Clearly you're not used to Ottawa-area infrastructure announcements. I'm surprised the MPP from Cornwall and Rockland didn't show up, too.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Clearly you're not used to Ottawa-area infrastructure announcements. I'm surprised the MPP from Cornwall and Rockland didn't show up, too.

Yes I am - these infrastructure announcements are a direct result of my line of work. Just stating the obvious. M.-F. Lalonde is my MPP and I like the fact she took the time to attend the tour. Too bad Bob Chiarelli, John Fraser, and Yasir Naqvi didn't.

[MalcolmTucker]

Ministers are busy. I don't think it shows a lack of commitment or anything.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

The key to that HSR project is that it connects the tech. hub of Kitchener-Waterloo to the global gateway that is the GTA- making it much more attractive for Ontario to court Google/FB to build campuses in Waterloo if it's only 60 mins from Pearson.

The HSR proposal still sounds like nothing more than a pipe dream.
It seemed to be more of an announcement to try to swing votes in the close K-W ridings rather than a practical transportation plan. It would appeal most to the frustrated Waterloo Region commuter more than anything else. I'm not sure how much interest it would generate for commuting from Toronto to the Tech Hub in K-W. 2-way GO service would probably satisfy that demand.

I would expect it would be quite difficult and expensive to upgrade the current Georgetown GO / Kitchener VIA line to HSR standards, particularly through the towns en route (Georgetown, Acton, Guelph, Breslau, Kitchener, Baden, New Hamburg, Stratford).

This intersection in Baden is terrifying enough with VIA and freight trains rolling though at 60km/h+.
http://bit.ly/1kC0j1g

[1overcosc]

It's uncertain if the HSR project is even alive at this point. It was very much Glen Murray's pet project, and now that he's no longer Minister of Transportation (good riddance btw. Yes he was an urbanite and he was very knowledgeable but was way too much of a loose cannon) the plan may be dropped. Especially because two-way all day GO service to Kitchener is already happening, and as you said, that provides most of the benefit anyway.

Yes, there would be massive infrastructure upgrades required to allow the track to reach HSR standards... but most of those upgrades are required for 2WAD GO anyway. The HSR project itself has very little capital spending between Kitchener and Toronto (and none at all between downtown Toronto & Pearson Airport)... most of the cost was building a brand new greenfield route from Kitchener to London.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Clearly you're not used to Ottawa-area infrastructure announcements. I'm surprised the MPP from Cornwall and Rockland didn't show up, too.

The MPP from Cornwall is a PC. Why would he show up? That would just be awkward.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Yes, there would be massive infrastructure upgrades required to allow the track to reach HSR standards... but most of those upgrades are required for 2WAD GO anyway. The HSR project itself has very little capital spending between Kitchener and Toronto (and none at all between downtown Toronto & Pearson Airport)... most of the cost was building a brand new greenfield route from Kitchener to London.

What are you basing that on?

The 2009 environmental assessment identifies a number of improvements necessary for two-way all day service
http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/ea/georgetown-kitchener/Rail_Expansion_ESR.pdf

These include adding a 3rd track on sections shared with the CN mainline, adding a 2nd track on most of the rest of the line, adding signals, straitening out a curve, replacing a few junctions, etc. The report identifies the specific objective of increasing the maximum speed to 80mph (128 kph).

80mph is below the existing maximum operating speed of GO locamotives of 93 mph (http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/publications/quickfacts/Quick_Facts_GO_Trains_EN.pdf) so there is no need for new rolling stock and express trains from KW can share track with other go services and VIA trains.

I guess it depends what one's definition of "high speed" is, but wikipedia identifies a number of sources that set a 200kph minimum. If that's what the premier means by "high speed" then a whole new set of upgrades are necessary, including new rolling stock (such as a Bombardier Jettrain), additional grade separation, additional safety features and probably a lot of new track (so these new trains can bypass slower moving GO, VIA and UPExpress trains).

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by acottawa

What are you basing that on?

The 2009 environmental assessment identifies a number of improvements necessary for two-way all day service
http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/ea/georgetown-kitchener/Rail_Expansion_ESR.pdf

These include adding a 3rd track on sections shared with the CN mainline, adding a 2nd track on most of the rest of the line, adding signals, straitening out a curve, replacing a few junctions, etc. The report identifies the specific objective of increasing the maximum speed to 80mph (128 kph).

80mph is below the existing maximum operating speed of GO locamotives of 93 mph (http://www.gotransit.com/public/en/docs/publications/quickfacts/Quick_Facts_GO_Trains_EN.pdf) so there is no need for new rolling stock and express trains from KW can share track with other go services and VIA trains.

I guess it depends what one's definition of "high speed" is, but wikipedia identifies a number of sources that set a 200kph minimum. If that's what the premier means by "high speed" then a whole new set of upgrades are necessary, including new rolling stock (such as a Bombardier Jettrain), additional grade separation, additional safety features and probably a lot of new track (so these new trains can bypass slower moving GO, VIA and UPExpress trains).

I'm basing it on all the speculation I've read about on UT. People have made some pretty solid analyses of it.

It won't really be true high speed for most of the route. They have some sample travel times, and at UT people calculated that means that 320km/h will be reached only between Kitchener and London, the speed east of Kitchener is more like 150-200. So not really true HSR for most of the trip.

The bulk of HSR costs come from grade seperation requirements, electrification, and corridor acquisition. All of the first two and most of the third would be done to Kitchener as part of RER. Keep in mind that we've moved beyond simply having 2 way all day GO, we're now talking about metro-like electric high-frequency service that is a lot fancier.

At least that's what I've heard. Toronto transit is complicated. Head over to UT for a more complete story.

[citydwlr]

This isn't an Ottawa-based article, but I think it still applies nonetheless:

Improve LRT stations by adding retail services, says Edmonton engineer (via CBC)

...

Matt Brassard is an environmental engineer with Urban Systems Ltd. He says LRT stations could be made more neighbourhood-friendly by adding features like grocery stores, coffee shops and yoga studios, which could also help increase ridership while integrating with the surrounding community.

“Just imagine a station where the biggest challenge is actually finding it,” Brassard said. “There’s so many things happening around it – there’s large amounts of retail, there’s residential towers vertically above the station and employment nodes. Just an amazing opportunity that we have in front of us.”

Brassard said cities like Vancouver have had success building developments right next to transit stations in order to take advantage of commuter traffic.

“Right on the platform, you walk out of the train you take 15 steps and you walk through the grocery store doors to pick up your dinner for the evening,” Brassard said.

...

[1overcosc]

Last I heard the city is making allowances for retail at some of the stations. Anyone know more about this?

[PokerPukka]

Originally Posted by S-Man

Oh, I'd also like to add....

HIGH SPEED RAIL TO LONDON??!!

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/bulletin/new-york-to-london-in-an-hour-by-train/
- perhaps we could ask them to include a stop in Ottawa

[1overcosc]

If a project like that is even feasible, building something like that to connect all of Canada's cities would be a godsend to our country.

[Kitchissippi]

Pffft. They can't even get California HSR going, and that's just from SF to LA. Hollywood has had better luck, though, well sort of

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Last I heard the city is making allowances for retail at some of the stations. Anyone know more about this?

Hopefully the city didn't spend much more for the space. The retail space in Calgary and Edmonton has sat empty since at least the late 90s. A tiny space in one station will now have a coffee shop.

Not a success.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Last I heard the city is making allowances for retail at some of the stations. Anyone know more about this?

If you click on the stations under and you check the "Other station features" list (below station rendering and description) you can see weather or not the station will have built in retail.

Tunney's, uOttawa, Hurdman and Tremblay are the ones with retail. Lyon, Parliament, Rideau and St-Laurent are directly connected to retail buildings so it's not necessary IMO.

[S-Man]

The MPP from Cornwall is a PC. Why would he show up? That would just be awkward.

Whoopsies, never mind then. The point I was making was that almost anyone will show up at 'good news' announcements if there's an off-chance that some residue of the glowing spotlight will rub off on them.

Carry on, all! And high-speed rail ain't happening. It just is not.