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View Poll Results: Which of the designs would you like to see become the new Lansdowne 'Front Lawn'?
Option A: "One Park, Four Landscapes" 12 11.88%
Option B: "Win Place Show" 23 22.77%
Option C: "A Force of Nature" 14 13.86%
Option D: "All Roads Lead to Aberdeen" 16 15.84%
Option E: "The Canal Park in Ottawa" 18 17.82%
None of the above. Please keep my ashphalt. 18 17.82%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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  #4701  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 1:59 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by JFFournier View Post
Been trying to have changes made for the past 18 months? This would have to go back well before the Lansdowne transportation plan then. What other issues have they been having on that street in terms of traffic?
Sniff - one time last spring - sniff - some guy tried to - sniff - get to - sniff -get to - sniff get to the Great Glebe Garage Sale by driving down that street. Sniff.

IT WAS HORRIBLE.
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  #4702  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 3:28 PM
alecz_dad alecz_dad is offline
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Chianello: In defence of NIMBYism: Why Lakeside Avenue is rightly peeved

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 9, 2014


While it's been a great party inside the stadium, some residents living a short distance from Lansdowne have cause to complain, writes Joanne Chianello.

Sometimes NIMBYism gets a bad rap.

Apparently, to avoid being tagged as indulging in Not-In-My-Backyard hypocrisy, we’re supposed to be thrilled when, say, a 15-storey condo goes up at the end of our leafy residential street. Density is great! We are likewise expected to jump for joy when the city reroutes hundreds of transit buses down our quiet blocks.

That is, of course, ridiculous. We don’t as a rule feign delight when our environs are disrupted. Yet we tend to shrug our collective shoulders at the annoyances other parts of the city might experience — the indifference that’s the flip side of the Not-In-My-Back-Yard mentality.

It’s a natural instinct. That’s not to say that NIMBYism is desirable — if we want the city to grow and improve, we all need to embrace change and, sometimes, inconvenience — but it’s understandable.

Not every complaint about new development can be reduced to mere NIMBYism, though. Case in point: the Lakeside Avenue residents’ protest against hundreds of football-game shuttles trundling down their normally serene residential street.

In an effort to get thousands of fans to Redblacks games, CFL-franchise owner Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group is running shuttles from four off-site parking lots to Lansdowne Park. The shuttles are a great idea. Lansdowne isn’t on any major transportation or rapid-transit routes, and there isn’t room for most fans to drive — or park — at (or even near) the TD Place stadium.

There’s only one catch, at least for the 20 or so homeowners who live on Lakeside: Their tiny street is being used by these shuttles to connect from Bronson Avenue to Queen Elizabeth Driveway. While OSEG employs 90 shuttles for each game, each vehicle makes multiple runs. That means more than 500 bus trips down the street for hours on game nights.

The central argument against the complainants seems to be that they should expect to be inconvenienced as they live near Lansdowne. This is not fair. One might make that argument in regards to, say, the folks who live on Holmwood Avenue and now face a wall of development where there used to be a park. You have to feel for those people. But they did locate right across from Lansdowne Park, where development was always a real possibility.

However, Lakeside Avenue is many blocks from Lansdowne. Residents aren’t complaining about mere noise, or more traffic. They’re upset because buses are clogging their street on game nights (and might for other big events at Lansdowne in the future, such as major concerts). This residential side street is not meant to be a thoroughfare, a fact that the city recognizes because cars travelling north on Bronson usually aren’t allowed to turn left onto Lakeside. But the city has made an exception for the OSEG shuttles.

There isn’t a person in Ottawa who wouldn’t be furious if this happened on his or her own street, even if it was only a dozen times a year.

Still, there are two sides to every argument. OSEG’s is also a valid one. Alternative routes that don’t use Lakeside to get to Queen Elizabeth Drive would take longer. If we want people to take the bus to games, then we need to make it as convenient as we can for ticketholders. That means keeping the commute brief. Well, as brief as possible.

Perhaps Spock (with apologies to philosopher Jeremy Bentham) was right when he said that “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Delaying thousands of game-goers — and potentially prompting them to take their cars next time — wouldn’t help anyone. In fact, that might well cause worse traffic in the Glebe.

So what’s to be done? OSEG may try other routes later in the season. They absolutely should — at least to provide concrete metrics by which to judge the route that inconveniences the fewest people. Perhaps football fans wouldn’t protest spending an extra five minutes on a bus to spare their fell0w citizens on Lakeside, but a 20-minute delay would burn up any goodwill they might harbour toward the Glebe-ites.

There’s probably no perfect solution for this traffic conundrum. But dismissing the complaints of Lakeside Avenue as NIMBYism amounts to adding gratuitous insult to real injury.

[email protected]

twitter.com/jchianello
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  #4703  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 3:43 PM
alecz_dad alecz_dad is offline
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But HighwayStar if you keep throwing out inconvenient truths here it is possible occasionally to sow enough doubt to fracture the groupthink, and the weasels will start turning on each other. So, it's can be worth it sometimes.

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Welcome, and God help you for the wrath you have just unleashed upon yourself. On this thread, dissent is met with hostility. Just tell them you love it and everything will be fine.
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  #4704  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 4:12 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Sniff - one time last spring - sniff - some guy tried to - sniff - get to - sniff -get to - sniff get to the Great Glebe Garage Sale by driving down that street. Sniff.

IT WAS HORRIBLE.
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  #4705  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 4:42 PM
hwy418 hwy418 is offline
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Originally Posted by alecz_dad View Post
Chianello: In defence of NIMBYism: Why Lakeside Avenue is rightly peeved

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 9, 2014


While it's been a great party inside the stadium, some residents living a short distance from Lansdowne have cause to complain, writes Joanne Chianello.

Sometimes NIMBYism gets a bad rap.

Apparently, to avoid being tagged as indulging in Not-In-My-Backyard hypocrisy, we’re supposed to be thrilled when, say, a 15-storey condo goes up at the end of our leafy residential street. Density is great! We are likewise expected to jump for joy when the city reroutes hundreds of transit buses down our quiet blocks.

That is, of course, ridiculous. We don’t as a rule feign delight when our environs are disrupted. Yet we tend to shrug our collective shoulders at the annoyances other parts of the city might experience — the indifference that’s the flip side of the Not-In-My-Back-Yard mentality.

It’s a natural instinct. That’s not to say that NIMBYism is desirable — if we want the city to grow and improve, we all need to embrace change and, sometimes, inconvenience — but it’s understandable.

Not every complaint about new development can be reduced to mere NIMBYism, though. Case in point: the Lakeside Avenue residents’ protest against hundreds of football-game shuttles trundling down their normally serene residential street.

In an effort to get thousands of fans to Redblacks games, CFL-franchise owner Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group is running shuttles from four off-site parking lots to Lansdowne Park. The shuttles are a great idea. Lansdowne isn’t on any major transportation or rapid-transit routes, and there isn’t room for most fans to drive — or park — at (or even near) the TD Place stadium.

There’s only one catch, at least for the 20 or so homeowners who live on Lakeside: Their tiny street is being used by these shuttles to connect from Bronson Avenue to Queen Elizabeth Driveway. While OSEG employs 90 shuttles for each game, each vehicle makes multiple runs. That means more than 500 bus trips down the street for hours on game nights.

The central argument against the complainants seems to be that they should expect to be inconvenienced as they live near Lansdowne. This is not fair. One might make that argument in regards to, say, the folks who live on Holmwood Avenue and now face a wall of development where there used to be a park. You have to feel for those people. But they did locate right across from Lansdowne Park, where development was always a real possibility.

However, Lakeside Avenue is many blocks from Lansdowne. Residents aren’t complaining about mere noise, or more traffic. They’re upset because buses are clogging their street on game nights (and might for other big events at Lansdowne in the future, such as major concerts). This residential side street is not meant to be a thoroughfare, a fact that the city recognizes because cars travelling north on Bronson usually aren’t allowed to turn left onto Lakeside. But the city has made an exception for the OSEG shuttles.

There isn’t a person in Ottawa who wouldn’t be furious if this happened on his or her own street, even if it was only a dozen times a year.

Still, there are two sides to every argument. OSEG’s is also a valid one. Alternative routes that don’t use Lakeside to get to Queen Elizabeth Drive would take longer. If we want people to take the bus to games, then we need to make it as convenient as we can for ticketholders. That means keeping the commute brief. Well, as brief as possible.

Perhaps Spock (with apologies to philosopher Jeremy Bentham) was right when he said that “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” Delaying thousands of game-goers — and potentially prompting them to take their cars next time — wouldn’t help anyone. In fact, that might well cause worse traffic in the Glebe.

So what’s to be done? OSEG may try other routes later in the season. They absolutely should — at least to provide concrete metrics by which to judge the route that inconveniences the fewest people. Perhaps football fans wouldn’t protest spending an extra five minutes on a bus to spare their fell0w citizens on Lakeside, but a 20-minute delay would burn up any goodwill they might harbour toward the Glebe-ites.

There’s probably no perfect solution for this traffic conundrum. But dismissing the complaints of Lakeside Avenue as NIMBYism amounts to adding gratuitous insult to real injury.

[email protected]

twitter.com/jchianello
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  #4706  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 4:47 PM
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phil235 phil235 is offline
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Originally Posted by JFFournier View Post
Been trying to have changes made for the past 18 months? This would have to go back well before the Lansdowne transportation plan then. What other issues have they been having on that street in terms of traffic?
They might not be far off. Lakeside was in the plans as far back as I can remember. It was certainly a big issue at the community meeting last winter.

Lakeside is a cut-through street for traffic heading south on the QED who want to get onto Bronson southbound. It is even signed that way. At peak times there is usually a line of cars waiting to turn off of Lakeside onto Bronson.
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  #4707  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 5:00 PM
alecz_dad alecz_dad is offline
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As a result, I can confidently predict that tax-dodging, expat, billionaire, and OSMUG-partner Bill Shenkman, is safe from OSMUG shuttle buses trundling past his home because he spends all his time in London and Monaco (local boy that he is, he rarely deigns to return to dowdy old Ottawa).


However, he had less luck when his local London pub got rowdier. Then, Shenkman became a pretty loud, NIMBY squeaker, when he and his neighbours in tony Mayfair took exception to noise and disruption from a local pub.

Seems a few years back Shenkman, and some of his wealthy neighbours in a block of flats in London's tony Mayfair neighbourhood channeled their inner-NIMBYs when they decided they didn't like how changes to a neighbouring pub were causing disruption in their quiet corner of the city, and set out (ultimately unsuccessfully) to shut it down.

For over a year we have been prisoners in our own homes... (w)e have lived here 15 years and never experienced this madness. WHAT CAN BE DONE? I am begging someone to help.
-- wrote Shenkman's wife, Maureen, in a 2009 email.

Oh, the humanity, indeed!

Apparently Shenkman and his well-heeled neighbours were upset by the extra traffic, noise, and disruption taking place on their quiet street, since Madonna's ex, Guy Ritchie, redeveloped the Punch Bowl pub from a sleepy local into a "world-class destination."



Now, some might say that the redeveloped pub is out of character with its quiet environs. That it is unfair to expect neighbouring residents to have to bear the negative aspects of commercial activity that is incompatible with its surroundings.

But surely, Mr. Shenkman could see that there was a pub there when he bought his property -- the pub had, after all, operated there since the 1750s -- and so one could reasonably expect that the nature of its activities might change over time. "If he is so disturbed by it," they would say, "he should move elsewhere. The pub was here first."

Too bad in Ottawa Shenkman didn't exercise the same standard of consideration to his prospective future neighbours -- such as the residents of my own little street in the Glebe who thanks to Shenkman and his pals will have an 8-storey high googleplex cinema squatting at the end of our street, spewing out a miasma of fake butter and thousands of cinemagoers a day -- that he clearly expected of his own commercial neighbour in London.

To paraphrase F. Scott Fitzgerald, the rich think that they are better than we are. So I suppose it should come as no surprise that in the end what member of the the 1% (or the .001%, I should say) such as Shenkman expect on his street -- consideration -- is too much for the oft-maligned residents of the Glebe to hope for on theirs.

I hope that in some reflective moment, his experience in London gave Shenkman some tiny appreciation of the frustration and sense of helplessness that his actions and those of his OSMUG partners have caused Lansdowne's neighbours to live with for the last several years, as they saw the Lansdowne scheme railroaded through with nothing other than a gigantic middle-finger offered to them by the developers and the City.

(Although maybe Shenkman got the last laugh, as Ritchie sold the Punchbowl in 2013, and it is apparently now closed permanently. Hopefully now he and poor Maureen can sleep soundly on their mattresses stuffed with money.)

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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
That's funny. People in my neighbourhood squeak, too, but the city blithely ignores them. I'm sure it's entirely unrelated to the income levels in the two different neighbourhoods.
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  #4708  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 5:15 PM
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phil235 phil235 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alecz_dad View Post
As a result, I can confidently predict that tax-dodging, expat, billionaire, and OSMUG-partner Bill Shenkman, is safe from OSMUG shuttle buses trundling past his home because he spends all his time in London and Monaco (local boy that he is, he rarely deigns to return to dowdy old Ottawa).


However, he had less luck when his local London pub got rowdier. Then, Shenkman became a pretty loud, NIMBY squeaker, when he and his neighbours in tony Mayfair took exception to noise and disruption from a local pub.

Seems a few years back Shenkman, and some of his wealthy neighbours in a block of flats in London's tony Mayfair neighbourhood channeled their inner-NIMBYs when they decided they didn't like how changes to a neighbouring pub were causing disruption in their quiet corner of the city, and set out (ultimately unsuccessfully) to shut it down.

For over a year we have been prisoners in our own homes... (w)e have lived here 15 years and never experienced this madness. WHAT CAN BE DONE? I am begging someone to help.
-- wrote Shenkman's wife, Maureen, in a 2009 email.

Oh, the humanity, indeed!

Apparently Shenkman and his well-heeled neighbours were upset by the extra traffic, noise, and disruption taking place on their quiet street, since Madonna's ex, Guy Ritchie, redeveloped the Punch Bowl pub from a sleepy local into a "world-class destination."



Now, some might say that the redeveloped pub is out of character with its quiet environs. That it is unfair to expect neighbouring residents to have to bear the negative aspects of commercial activity that is incompatible with its surroundings.

But surely, Mr. Shenkman could see that there was a pub there when he bought his property -- the pub had, after all, operated there since the 1750s -- and so one could reasonably expect that the nature of its activities might change over time. "If he is so disturbed by it," they would say, "he should move elsewhere. The pub was here first."

Too bad in Ottawa Shenkman didn't exercise the same standard of consideration to his prospective future neighbours -- such as the residents of my own little street in the Glebe who thanks to Shenkman and his pals will have an 8-storey high googleplex cinema squatting at the end of our street, spewing out a miasma of fake butter and thousands of cinemagoers a day -- that he clearly expected of his own commercial neighbour in London.

To paraphrase F. Scott Fitzgerald, the rich think that they are better than we are. So I suppose it should come as no surprise that in the end what member of the the 1% (or the .001%, I should say) such as Shenkman expect on his street -- consideration -- is too much for the oft-maligned residents of the Glebe to hope for on theirs.

I hope that in some reflective moment, his experience in London gave Shenkman some tiny appreciation of the frustration and sense of helplessness that his actions and those of his OSMUG partners have caused Lansdowne's neighbours to live with for the last several years, as they saw the Lansdowne scheme railroaded through with nothing other than a gigantic middle-finger offered to them by the developers and the City.

(Although maybe Shenkman got the last laugh, as Ritchie sold the Punchbowl in 2013, and it is apparently now closed permanently. Hopefully now he and poor Maureen can sleep soundly on their mattresses stuffed with money.)
This is even more interesting now than when you posted about it in March.
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  #4709  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 5:41 PM
JFFournier JFFournier is offline
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Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
This is even more interesting now than when you posted about it in March.
This is one of those rare times when I disagree with you.
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  #4710  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 6:15 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil235 View Post
This is even more interesting now than when you posted about it in March.
Well it is at least a bit more relevant now.
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  #4711  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 6:31 PM
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This is one of those rare times when I disagree with you.
Oh well, the group think had to fracture at some point.
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  #4712  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2014, 7:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JFFournier View Post
Been trying to have changes made for the past 18 months? This would have to go back well before the Lansdowne transportation plan then. What other issues have they been having on that street in terms of traffic?
Barry cough cough clears throat Hobin lives on that street. Enough said.
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  #4713  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 12:37 AM
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Glenlivet Ave Glenlivet Ave is offline
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Barry Hobin lived at 35 Lakeside Ave from 1984 to 2010. He then designed and moved to 3 Grosvenor Ave.

http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/ottawa-interiors/ottawa-interiors-2011/2011111102/39.html#38
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  #4714  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 4:18 PM
JFFournier JFFournier is offline
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From CFRA:

Quote:
Lansdowne Park officially opens this Friday but the city is hosting a celebration Saturday, including a community picnic and a fair.

This is the first time the new urban park will be open to the public on a weekend after the reconstruction of Lansdowne Park.

There is free admission to the celebration which runs from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m.

OC Transpo routes 1 and 7 provide direct access to the park and the city is encouraging residents to use a day pass. These can be purchased from the driver for 8 dollars and 10 cents.

On the weekends the day pass can be used by two adults and up to four children.
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  #4715  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2014, 4:57 PM
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I believe Holmwood St. should be renamed Lansdowne Back Alley and Lakeside St. renamed Bronson QED Connector.

Perhaps they could widen Lakeside to make it a four lane.

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  #4716  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2014, 2:09 AM
Fatty McButterpants Fatty McButterpants is offline
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I guess a sports analogy would be those franchises who operate in these "regression to the mean" cycles where they get a sniff but then ultimately resign themselves to being fixtures in that "pretty good" strata. Those franchises have nothing to brag about.

And also, unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck
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  #4717  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2014, 2:24 AM
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  #4718  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2014, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
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I hardly fit into this category... but I have to honestly say I've never been crazy about the veil. Really doesn't seem functional in any way, shape or form. I can only picture the water streaming on to those underneath during a rainy day.
I like it ... somewhat. And considering the general lack of anything interesting or risky in this city, my moderate approval translates on the bell curve to wholehearted affection for the darn thing.
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  #4719  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2014, 4:05 PM
Fatty McButterpants Fatty McButterpants is offline
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They say a franchise needs on-field success and an alluring facility to maintain consistently good attendance/interest. Well, the on-field product is clearly not worthy of a devoted fan base. So, will the stadium be enough to keep the fans coming? Let's just say this team better get good fast.
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  #4720  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2014, 5:34 PM
YOWetal YOWetal is online now
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Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants View Post
They say a franchise needs on-field success and an alluring facility to maintain consistently good attendance/interest. Well, the on-field product is clearly not worthy of a devoted fan base. So, will the stadium be enough to keep the fans coming? Let's just say this team better get good fast.
We will see. I am pretty sure great stadium architecture is not a key attraction. The overall experience of TD place (central location, restuarants and shopping in the complex) compared to say the CTC should be very beneficial to their attendance.
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