The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[caltrane74]

So what the government built it?; government is responsible for building key infrastructure. If this was built by the private sector or sold off to the private sector everyone would be complaining just like the 407 disaster. Additionally, the rail improvements to the Milton/Kitchener line were the major (majority) cost of this project and on that respect even general commuters, not just the rich downtowners will benefit from the money spent on the line.

Also,

If you work for minimum wage take the subway and the airport express.

With the Metropass thats just 2 buck each way, or about 10 mins work.

[vid]

Thunder Bayers only use Pearson to get to somewhere other than Toronto. If Toronto is our destination, then unless something is forcing us to be in the suburbs, we're going to City Centre.

But keep in mind, not everyone in Canada has a flight directly to City Centre. Someone from Winnipeg has to use Pearson unless they're stopping in Thunder Bay first.

[1overcosc]

It should be emphasized that the bulk of the UPX construction cost was upgrading and grade separating the existing rail corridor through Toronto. The speed limit on the Georgetown subdivision tracks through Toronto will now be 160km/h--which is very fast for an urban railway. (Everyone who's been on VIA knows that while 160km/h is always reached in the rural areas, it always slows down, sometimes to quite a crawl, in urban areas). This will speed up VIA trains, GO trains, and also make building GO RER and HSR must easier.

[1overcosc]

Kingstonians will use UPX. Whenever Kingstonians travel overseas, we almost always fly out of Pearson. While we do have an airport with flights to Pearson, almost nobody ever takes it. We almost always drive, train, or bus to Toronto (or sometimes Montreal) and fly from there.

Kingston has a large population of out-of-province and international students. There's so many Calgary kids at Queen's that there's even a "COWTOWN" patch you can buy for your jacket at the campus clothing store. There's also loads of Chinese nationals who attend Queen's--you see them walking around campus huddling in a giant group reading a map together and chatting away in Mandarin. These people, when going to/from school at Christmas, summer break, etc. almost always fly out of Pearson and get there via VIA or Megabus. I can assure you, UPX will be well used, and well appreciated, by those students. I dated one for a while (a rural Albertan enrolled at Queens' engineering) and he practically fell off his seat in excitement when I told him that UPX was a thing that was being built. His reaction didn't change when I told him the price.

[vegeta_skyline]

I still have faith that common sense will prevail and that this is what we'll end up with for the Eglinton LRT through Scarborough...

Originally Posted by Klazu

[Chadillaccc]

A new rendering of Calgary's Tuscany Station. Tuscany will be the last station on the northwest leg of the CTrain System, as no development beyond the neighbrouhood of Tuscany is projected in the foreseeable future. The station and tracks are all but complete, awaiting testing for 4 car trains, train testing ongoing.

Tuscany will open on August 25, marking the end of Calgary's 13 years of constant LRT expansion.


http://www.dialogdesign.ca/projects/rocky-ridge-tuscany-lrt-extension/


And a construction update


http://www.montrealgazette.com/Tuscany+s...lgary+expansion+boom/10045462/story.html

http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/997870/...pected-to-slash-commutes-for-bus-riders/

[ssiguy]

So what will be the next big LRT project in Calgary?

I know the SE will be getting their transitway and if is built to Ottawa Transitway standards and not just a bus lane on the side of the road, then it will be very effective. Is the next LRT project going to be an extension to a line, a downtown tunnel, or the ever elusive Northern line?

Calgary has done a great job on it's transit. Calgary is a shinning example of how even very wealthy, relatively new, and high car ownership cities can create great transit with high transit ridership rates.

BTW.......latest APTA stats now has Calgary above Vancouver in transit rides per capita and closing in on Ottawa.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

So what will be the next big LRT project in Calgary?

I know the SE will be getting their transitway and if is built to Ottawa Transitway standards and not just a bus lane on the side of the road, then it will be very effective. Is the next LRT project going to be an extension to a line, a downtown tunnel, or the ever elusive Northern line?

Calgary has done a great job on it's transit. Calgary is a shinning example of how even very wealthy, relatively new, and high car ownership cities can create great transit with high transit ridership rates.

BTW.......latest APTA stats now has Calgary above Vancouver in transit rides per capita and closing in on Ottawa.

Well, there's the LRT projects that are politically possible, and the LRT projects that are really needed and there doesn't seem to be much overlap between them. North-central Calgary has the ridership to justify an LRT line, Centre Street sees substantially more transit users than either single-occupancy or carpooling passengers. Furthermore, there is currently a serious issue of LRT congestion on the downtown portion of the LRT, where the enitre system interlines. Headways in Calgary during rush hour are currently limited by the switching that happens at either end of the downtown section, and separating the two current LRT lines is crucial for future growth.

Both aren't really politically possible though, so the South East is getting LRT instead. Even though the current express bus to the South East fails to achieve sufficient demand to run 60' buses outside of peak time, or even 40' buses on the weekend.

[Chadillaccc]

I'd say the next projects are either a south extension, the 8th Avenue Subway, or the SE line.

Also, Ssi, you are right that it is planned to be a transit way similar to Ottawa's. It's just that the SE doesn't need an LRT yet. The reason it is likely to get an LRT before the North Central area does, is because it's easier. Building an LRT up centre street would result in the road being mostly/totally closed for years, while it is a primary traffic route for the city. It will also involve the construction of likely the longest bored tunnel in Alberta's history (from approx 2nd Avenue S to around 18 avenue N)... and no one really wants to take that risk at this time, even though it is all but required. It's needed almost as much as the downtown subway is.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The reason it is likely to get an LRT before the North Central area does, is because it's easier. Building an LRT up centre street would result in the road being mostly/totally closed for years, while it is a primary traffic route for the city.

Are there no parallel streets that could be followed?

[Chadillaccc]

In this day and age, there is not a chance in hell a single family residential community would allow an LRT to run up their street and annihilate the tranquillity of their community, and rightly so. It should go up Centre Street, there is no other sensible option. The only other option the city of considering is Edmonton trail. However, that option brings the LRT several blocks away from the population/transit user density of Centre Street, rendering the effect of the LRT on pedestrian (transit) friendliness partially inert.

With a bored tunnel up to 17th or 18th ave, at least the intersection of Centre and 16th (one of the busiest intersections in the city) would be saved from the construction closure. Everything south of 16th would be fine. However, most people using Centre Street are going much farther north than 16th. So the city would have to make arrangements for years of heavy traffic flow along 4th Street West and Edmonton Trail, as those are the alternate routes for drivers heading north.

[milomilo]

Calgary has always favoured coverage over quality of service improvements - which arguably has helped the system's success. My prediction is it seems likely the trend will continue, with the SE line being built first. It also helps that the SELRT has been well planned for, and there is an easy route for it to take (except for the downtown tunnel).

In some ways, IMO, the priorities are wrong, as all these extensions to far out suburbs reward people for moving to places which aren't good for the city. Meanwhile, the trains are packed by the time they get halfway into the city so users who live in the good places are punished. In regards to the SELRT, everyone knows the deep SE has crappy roads and transit, but people want a cheap big house so they move there and then bitch about how bad their commute on Deerfoot is.

I do support the SELRT, as clearly the SE is the worst connected, but I also want the NCLRT to be built to a high standard (i.e. underground), so the existing transit users there are given improvements also. I also want to see more service improvements, so everyone benefits (8th Ave, some grade separation, speed increases).

I also don't see why we can't build this soon. Calgary and Alberta is a very wealthy place (as everyone is so tired of hearing!). What's the point of all our damaging industry if we're not going to reap the benefits with value-adding infrastructure? We can afford it, even if it means some guys might have to delay lifting their F350 or buy a 2500sqft house instead of a 3000sqft one.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

With a bored tunnel up to 17th or 18th ave, at least the intersection of Centre and 16th (one of the busiest intersections in the city) would be saved from the construction closure. Everything south of 16th would be fine. However, most people using Centre Street are going much farther north than 16th. So the city would have to make arrangements for years of heavy traffic flow along 4th Street West and Edmonton Trail, as those are the alternate routes for drivers heading north.

The stations would still almost certainly be cut and cover even if the line was bored so there would still be major disruption. AFAIK, the ground there is mainly loose gravel, so we can't do as Ottawa have done by digging out the caverns underground.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by vegeta_skyline

I still have faith that common sense will prevail and that this is what we'll end up with for the Eglinton LRT through Scarborough...

An elevated line?!? A big no thank you.

It's freakin' ugly. It absolutely sucks in winter. It will no doubt be more commuter focus with far flung stations backed by a local Eglinton bus. Eglinton as a whole needs to be urbanized. A hybrid elevated lrt that acts as metro/communter rail is not an answer.

[VIce]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Calgary has always favoured coverage over quality of service improvements - which arguably has helped the system's success. My prediction is it seems likely the trend will continue, with the SE line being built first. It also helps that the SELRT has been well planned for, and there is an easy route for it to take (except for the downtown tunnel).

In some ways, IMO, the priorities are wrong, as all these extensions to far out suburbs reward people for moving to places which aren't good for the city. Meanwhile, the trains are packed by the time they get halfway into the city so users who live in the good places are punished. In regards to the SELRT, everyone knows the deep SE has crappy roads and transit, but people want a cheap big house so they move there and then bitch about how bad their commute on Deerfoot is.

I do support the SELRT, as clearly the SE is the worst connected, but I also want the NCLRT to be built to a high standard (i.e. underground), so the existing transit users there are given improvements also. I also want to see more service improvements, so everyone benefits (8th Ave, some grade separation, speed increases).

I also don't see why we can't build this soon. Calgary and Alberta is a very wealthy place (as everyone is so tired of hearing!). What's the point of all our damaging industry if we're not going to reap the benefits with value-adding infrastructure? We can afford it, even if it means some guys might have to delay lifting their F350 or buy a 2500sqft house instead of a 3000sqft one.

I'm not sure I would use the word "favored" with respect to coverage vs quality; I think 'forced' might be more appropriate. Calgary's original transit plans were for a grade-separated metro, which was killed by rising labor costs. Ditto on the original 8th ave subway. The fact is that, like everyone else, CT has to deal with the hand its given.

Part of that goes into serving far-flug communities. On one hand you might rightfully say it promotes urban sprawl. But on the other hand, converting suburbanites from car users to transit users has a much larger value in terms of pollution and carbon reduction, in terms of congestion reduction than an otherwise equivalent urban commuter.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ There was no original plans for an 8th Avenue subway, just future proofing to make sure when the ground was dug up for something else, things were moved or built to reduce the disruption in the future. Unfortunately this recently led to the access tunnel and the entire city hall parkade being flooded, and having their post tensioned cables replaced — ooops.

[J.OT13]

While Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson was announcing that the DOTT was now 50% excavated during a field trip with Kathleen Wynn and Royal Galipeau, the O-Train derailed at Carleton University.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/o-train-service-temporarily-suspended

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

An elevated line?!? A big no thank you.

It's freakin' ugly. It absolutely sucks in winter. It will no doubt be more commuter focus with far flung stations backed by a local Eglinton bus. Eglinton as a whole needs to be urbanized. A hybrid elevated lrt that acts as metro/communter rail is not an answer.

And what is wrong with elevated transit? It used in many large cities throughout the world (especially in Asia).

And the last time I checked, trunk corridors are the perfect places for a metro. Also, station spacing along urban corridors are no different from traditional subways when using elevated rail such as skytrain. it is only in the long, non urbanized / suburban stretches where station spacing becomes wide.

Also, if you think elevated rail is ugly (which IMO it is not, it ads a nice urban texture) then you must really hate the Gardner.

[caltrane74]

Everyone in Toronto hates the Gardiner. Very big mistake that will cost billions to fix.

I'm also not a fan of elevated. Either street level or underground.

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Everyone in Toronto hates the Gardiner. Very big mistake that will cost billions to fix.

I'm also not a fan of elevated. Either street level or underground.

Elevated has a nice view