DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

Arapahoe Square...they mention other areas had a catalyst but make no mention of identifying or promoting a catalyst for AS. Perhaps that is why 15 years later nothing much has happened, maybe ya know an actual square or kick ass park, a public/private partnership to get the area moving. Doesn't seem that complicated.

I think the difficulty with Arapahoe Square getting a, you know, public square is Broadway. The diagonal screws up a good number of blocks that could be candidates for a public space. But, the bigger consideration is which are of Arapahoe Square needs help. The south side is where the largest parking lots are and where the impediments to development are the biggest. The north side will capture the spill-over from Ballpark and will slowly become a sea of 4-6 story residential blocks. The south side could and should be an extension of the high-rise district and would be a great area for a public space surrounded by high-rises. See the image below:
Public Square Locations by Wong21fr, on Flickr

Public Square #1 would be the best location in the area to have a large public space. It's a site that allows for enough room to provide for multiple uses, would bring a presence to an area that desperately needs it, and removes one of the most blighted blocks in downtown.

[bunt_q]

See I disagree, I think broadway cutting through there actually enhances the possibility for a good public square exactly because it breaks up the grid, creates worthwhile sight lines, etc. Just taking a whole block surrounded by streets and turning it into a plaza is not a recipe for a great public space.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

See I disagree, I think broadway cutting through there actually enhances the possibility for a good public square exactly because it breaks up the grid, creates worthwhile sight lines, etc. Just taking a whole block surrounded by streets and turning it into a plaza is not a recipe for a great public space.

But you still need the large space and the Broadway diagonal, while having the potential to create some nice sight lines, limits the number of decent sites for a public square of any decent size. I don't think we want to create another Skyline Park or Union Station plaza in Arapahoe Square; what we're looking for is something like Washington Square in NYC,Post Office Square in Boston, Trafalgar in London, etc. We're not looking at more intimate squares like Pioneer Square in Seattle, though such a square would certainly be more doable in the area, and possibly more interesting.

[DenverPoke]

I was thinking something along the lines of Washington Square or a mini Grant Park, with public art and a small amphitheater(500 seats and a grass area for more). Obviously this wound require more than one block and closing a portion of a street or two, but lord knows there is ample space.

[Riverfrontbrewer]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

I was thinking something along the lines of Washington Square or a mini Grant Park, with public art and a small(maybe 500 seats and a grass area for more). Obviously this wound require more than one block and closing a portion of a street or two, but lord knows there is ample space.

I think the real problem for any public area, square, art exibit in this area is that it would be overrun with homeless, travelers, tweakers, drifters, etc within about 5 minutes. I think the proximity to the homeless population in Denver is really what is holding this area back so far.

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by Riverfrontbrewer

I think the real problem for any public area, square, art exibit in this area is that it would be overrun with homeless, travelers, tweakers, drifters, etc within about 5 minutes. I think the proximity to the homeless population in Denver is really what is holding this area back so far.

Ain't this the truth..

We're not living in Barcelona where thousands of tourists come to spend money sipping cafe on the Plaza Mayor..

On the contrary; we've got a large homeless problem that would use the open space and benches as temporary sleeping area. Denver would be better off with private development of the open lots to get greater density.

[mhays]

Ah, that's where dispersal theory comes in. Parks don't add bums, they simply concentrate those you have. The more parks and sitting spaces you have, the more the bums disperse. (Differentiating between actual needy types of course.) Of course it's not as simple as that...some bums like to be near services and panhandling opportunities, and it's possible that the pie grows when your region gains more pedestrian critical mass....

The design of parks is also key. If three guys on a bench are a problem for someone 70 feet away, it's probably a bad design. A good public square will often resemble a collection of "rooms" in a way.

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

Ain't this the truth..

We're not living in Barcelona where thousands of tourists come to spend money sipping cafe on the Plaza Mayor..

On the contrary; we've got a large homeless problem that would use the open space and benches as temporary sleeping area. Denver would be better off with private development of the open lots to get greater density.

Agreed, but clearly they aren't being developed in the private sector so I was suggesting a catalyst to help spur private development. But yes a park probably be inundated with unsavory types. AS is a difficult fix for sure, I guess we just have to wait until it's the only land left for development.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by Riverfrontbrewer

I think the real problem for any public area, square, art exibit in this area is that it would be overrun with homeless, travelers, tweakers, drifters, etc within about 5 minutes. I think the proximity to the homeless population in Denver is really what is holding this area back so far.

Let's not forget the other problem we have: Denver never has enough money and property downtown is not cheap. We hardly have enough to keep up with our infrastructure demands as it is. This would be another plaza that parks and rec would have to maintain unless it were rolled into some kind of maintenance district, etc. Still I would think it would end up being a waste of time at this point. We really do need more density! Let's get that Sky House built and see what else pans out. It would be awesome if the Greyhound station sold to a developer who had the deep pockets to build something worthwhile and catalytic. Combo office/residential or hotel would be nice and something taller than what we've been seeing.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by Riverfrontbrewer

I think the real problem for any public area, square, art exibit in this area is that it would be overrun with homeless, travelers, tweakers, drifters, etc within about 5 minutes. I think the proximity to the homeless population in Denver is really what is holding this area back so far.

That's exactly what would happen, and what happened at Broadway & Lawrence. That is why Denver's urban park should be somewhere like the Federal Reserve. As for funding, make it part of a TIF district that would fund its construction and maintenance. Partner with local corporations for naming rights. The square is already in place outside Union Station, and has been fantastic so far.

[DenverPoke]

FYI, there is a rendering(albeit not a great one) of 1801 Wewatta over at DBJ. I would post it but I'm not sure how to do the picture thing on this forum.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

FYI, there is a rendering(albeit not a great one) of 1801 Wewatta over at DBJ. I would post it but I'm not sure how to do the picture thing on this forum.

Here it is, for what it's worth:
Denver Business Journal

Interestingly, the article does mention that Hensel Phelps will build a new 250,000 sq ft administration building for Denver Health at the NW corner of Sixth and Broadway. That's going to be in 4Q of this year. Given the parcels that Denver Health owns there, we could be looking at anywhere from a 5-8 story building.

[Denver]

Interestingly, the article does mention that Hensel Phelps will build a new 250,000 sq ft administration building for Denver Health at the NW corner of Sixth and Broadway. That's going to be in 4Q of this year. Given the parcels that Denver Health owns there, we could be looking at anywhere from a 5-8 story building.

It is going in at the corner of 6th and Broadway. They are demoing the existing building there with the parking lot fronting Broadway. I for one am happy to see that building go. It is an eyesore

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Here it is, for what it's worth:
Denver Business Journal

Mmmmm shitastic!

Interestingly, the article does mention that Hensel Phelps will build a new 250,000 sq ft administration building for Denver Health at the NW corner of Sixth and Broadway. That's going to be in 4Q of this year. Given the parcels that Denver Health owns there, we could be looking at anywhere from a 5-8 story building.

About time, that building has been vacant for years and is most definitely an eyesore!

[LAM]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Public Square #1 would be the best location in the area to have a large public space. It's a site that allows for enough room to provide for multiple uses, would bring a presence to an area that desperately needs it, and removes one of the most blighted blocks in downtown.

I don't know about square #1. Isn't it kind of like The dead block between the capitol and Civic Center Park? It even comes with a full complement of vagrants. Maybe they should change that from a "Park" to a "Square. I guess, it would lack any building adjacencies though that are so important for a square to be successful though.

[FrancoRey]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Here it is, for what it's worth:
Denver Business Journal

Well hello, 1984. We meet again.

[bunt_q]

Mmm, so very tech center.

[DownhomeDenver]

This is from the Cherry Creek Perspective by Bill James:

NAVA Real Estate is proposing to develop a 224-unit condominium building on part of the former site of St. Joseph's Central Hospital in west Denver. The 12-story building would be located across from Sloan's Lake Park on West 17th Avenue. The parcel would require rezoning and development is not likely to begin until 2015. The principals in NAVA are Trevor Hines and Brian Levitt. Prices have not yet been announced.


Did we know this was going to be condos???

[DenverPoke]

I seem to recall the phrase "architecturally significant" being thrown out on the Portman press release. Ha ha.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

This is from the Cherry Creek Perspective by Bill James:

NAVA Real Estate is proposing to develop a 224-unit condominium building on part of the former site of St. Joseph's Central Hospital in west Denver. The 12-story building would be located across from Sloan's Lake Park on West 17th Avenue. The parcel would require rezoning and development is not likely to begin until 2015. The principals in NAVA are Trevor Hines and Brian Levitt. Prices have not yet been announced.


Did we know this was going to be condos???

Previous article on the subject:

Condos may be coming to St. Anthony's

http://insiderealestatenews.com/2014/06/13/condos-may-be-coming-to-st-anthonys/