Time for Vancouver to Tear Down Its Viaducts? - Page 180

spm2013 · #**3581** Posted **Jul 29, 2014, 11:54 PM**

....

theKB · #**3582** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 12:32 AM**

So I would guess VV is holding off until after the election with this?

That development posted looks really cool!

rsxstock · #**3583** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 12:39 AM**

that viaduct actually looks pretty good when it's close to water

Pinion · #**3584** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 12:58 AM**

I haven't been to Darling Harbour in decades but Seattle's waterfront wasn't pleasant with cars roaring overhead on the Alaska Way viaduct. Vancouver's viaducts are better placed away from the shore.

Klazu · #**3585** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 2:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinion

I haven't been to Darling Harbour in decades but Seattle's waterfront wasn't pleasant with cars roaring overhead on the Alaska Way viaduct. Vancouver's viaducts are better placed away from the shore.

Darling Harbour viaducts are actually a good comparison to ours. They encapsulate a building between them like ours and they are pretty invasive of the waterfront area. I didn't like them, as they shadow the pedestrian area below quite a bit. They were pretty quiet though, as far as I can remember.

The whole Darling Harbour area seemed a bit over-hyped to me and I didn't find it as well implemented as our waterfront areas generally are. That IMAX re-gladding does look good, tough.

twoNeurons · #**3586** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 7:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsxstock

then you'll love the asian subways (hk, seoul, tokyo). similar scale but way newer

There isn't a big difference in age compared to Tokyo. Mind you, Tokyo subways are better maintained, kept clean, and used by people who generally have a respect for public infrastructure.

Tokyo's first subway was built in 1927, two years after the loop line (Yamanote)

New York's first was in 1904.

twoNeurons · #**3587** Posted **Aug 6, 2014, 6:22 PM**

A thought on the Viaducts...

If the viaducts were kept in their present form... what would be the chances of creating a tunnel portal where the viaduct traffic goes UNDER Georgia and Stanley park into North Vancouver?

Essentially this would be a downtown bypass where North Vancouver traffic would be funneled through to the East side. Lion's Gate would revert to a two-lane transit + cyclist/ped bridge. The road through Stanley Park could be made narrower, making the park board happy, the congestion on the Lion's gate would be eliminated by a new 4-6 lane crossing, and the traffic going through downtown to go North would bypass the core.

Pie in the Sky?

wrenegade · #**3588** Posted **Aug 6, 2014, 6:45 PM**

Pie in the sky. I would guess that a very small percentage of traffic goes east directly from the LGB through to Main Street/Prior. Way too high a cost and massive disruption during construction. Wouldn't be worth it in my opinion. I'd rather see a potential Skytrain/Canada Line connection to the North Shore, and even that idea can probably be filed under "Pie in the Sky" too.

Alex Mackinnon · #**3589** Posted **Aug 6, 2014, 6:49 PM**

Technically possible but hilariously expensive. It would need to be a EPBM like Seattle's big bertha and similar diameter to fit 4-6 lanes.

So yes, that is a pie way way up high. I'd look at it as 2-3 Skytrain lines of infrastructure money.

twoNeurons · #**3590** Posted **Aug 6, 2014, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Technically possible but hilariously expensive. It would need to be a EPBM like Seattle's big bertha and similar diameter to fit 4-6 lanes.

So yes, that is a pie way way up high. I'd look at it as 2-3 Skytrain lines of infrastructure money.

Fair enough. Unless Georgia was cut n' cover.

It's be a great case study to see how inexpensive rapid rail transit is in comparison. Not to get too off-topic... but has there been any estimation of costs of what another Northern East-west line would look like?

Extension East of Expo Line along Hastings or another route that could actually replace the viaduct.

Alex Mackinnon · #**3591** Posted **Aug 6, 2014, 8:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

Fair enough. Unless Georgia was cut n' cover.

It's be a great case study to see how inexpensive rapid rail transit is in comparison. Not to get too off-topic... but has there been any estimation of costs of what another Northern East-west line would look like?

Extension East of Expo Line along Hastings or another route that could actually replace the viaduct.

Cut and cover would be super hard even ignoring the access and disruption.

Think of all the walkways, utilities and tunnels under Georgia.

Jebby · #**3592** Posted **Aug 6, 2014, 11:14 PM**

They should build a line out to the North Shore. They could build it using cut and cover to cut down on costs.

jsbertram · #**3593** Posted **Aug 7, 2014, 1:02 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jebby

They should build a line out to the North Shore. They could build it using cut and cover to cut down on costs.

cut and cover across the harbour would be a bit difficult

Jebby · #**3594** Posted **Aug 7, 2014, 1:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsbertram

cut and cover across the harbour would be a bit difficult

That's why an Israeli contractor should be hired.

spm2013 · #**3595** Posted **Aug 7, 2014, 2:39 AM**

....

logan5 · #**3596** Posted **Aug 7, 2014, 2:48 AM**

Without even looking at the article, I know it's a submerged tunnel.

Pinion · #**3597** Posted **Aug 7, 2014, 3:30 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by spm2013

Not really, the Ted Williams Tunnel in Boston is cut and cover through the Boston Harbor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Williams_Tunnel

Interesting that it was only for commercial traffic for its first eight years. I could see Vancouver going the other way and making Lions Gate bike/bus only after a third opening is finished. That would get a lot of people on board.

Jebby · #**3598** Posted **Aug 7, 2014, 9:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Without even looking at the article, I know it's a submerged tunnel.

Yes, it was built on land then lowered into the water.

trofirhen · #**3599** Posted **Aug 7, 2014, 9:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

It's be a great case study to see how inexpensive rapid rail transit is in comparison. Not to get too off-topic... but has there been any estimation of costs of what another Northern East-west line would look like?

Extension East of Expo Line along Hastings or another route that could actually replace the viaduct.

How, precisely, would such a line replace the Viaducts? I'm simply interested in your concept.

twoNeurons · #**3600** Posted **Aug 8, 2014, 5:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by trofirhen

How, precisely, would such a line replace the Viaducts? I'm simply interested in your concept.

Replace its capacity. If you have another east-west line into downtown, it would likely go through another area of East Vancouver. A line along Hastings into the CBD, for example, would greatly increase the number of options.

That being said, I don't think the viaducts SHOULD be removed mid-life, just that it seems inevitable (and trendy) at this point.