Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[kool maudit]

i have heard montreal italians make fun of ottawa italians by putting on a corny, "hoser"-type accent (and by saying they are "basically not italian at all," i guess because they don't have a big, st-leo/woodbridge-type "home base.")

the funny thing, italians say the same thing about all italian-americans/canadians. i was at a dinner a few months ago where a couple from new york were explaining "jersey shore" to a guy from vicenza, telling him what a guido is and all ("i hope this isn't, like, offensive, but..."). he was perplexed, and said something like "really, don't worry. none of this has anything to do with me."

also: "marry" and "merry" are different to me. the first one has more of a short a, like "ah", "m-ah-rry" but the second is like "air"... "m-air-ry".

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

i have heard montreal italians make fun of ottawa italians by putting on a corny, "hoser"-type accent (and by saying they are "basically not italian at all," i guess because they don't have a big, st-leo/woodbridge-type "home base.")

the funny thing, italians say the same thing about all italian-americans/canadians. i was at a dinner a few months ago where a couple from new york were explaining "jersey shore" to a guy from vicenza, telling him what a guido is and all ("i hope this isn't, like, offensive, but..."). he was perplexed, and said something like "really, don't worry. none of this has anything to do with me."

.

I know it's a stretch, but reading this made me think of how some Canadians spout out iconic French Canadian stuff to people from France ("ostie de tabarnak!", or references to sugar pie or poutine), only to get extremely puzzled looks in return.

And digressing even further...

When I went to university in Ontario I once took a French class (hey, an easy A+ is an easy A+) and I had an extremely gorgeous classmate from BC who remarked that she had never heard a French Canadian accent before going to France as an exchange student. And that it was French classmates of hers who pointed it out to her one day on the street: "Hey, there are some of your compatriots!", to which she replied "What???".

[kool maudit]

a few years ago i went out to to the movies with my friend, his (anglo from little burgundy, but bilingual) girlfriend and this annoying girl from someplace like saint-catherine's or kitchener or whatever — middle canada.

anyway, this girl was making a big show all night about she just can't speak french in montreal "because i only understand french french." finally, and after probably the fifth repetition of this, we were sitting at the pub afterwards and my buddy's girlfriend snapped.

"no — stop it. you speak ontario french*, ok? grade 9 ontario french. that's what you speak. it's ok, just don't pretend: you speak ontario french."

(* she was not referring to franco-ontarians, of course)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

a few years ago i went out to to the movies with my friend, his (anglo from little burgundy, but bilingual) girlfriend and this annoying girl from someplace like saint-catherine's or kitchener or whatever — middle canada.

anyway, this girl was making a big show all night about she just can't speak french in montreal "because i only understand french french." finally, and after probably the fifth repetition of this, we were sitting at the pub afterwards and my buddy's girlfriend snapped.

"no — stop it. you speak ontario french*, ok? grade 9 ontario french. that's what you speak. it's ok, just don't pretend: you speak ontario french."

(* she was not referring to franco-ontarians, of course)

Still with "that guy/girl"... a story I've never told before.

Back when I was a young journalist, at one point I worked in a place that had a newsroom workspace shared between French language and English language oufits.

Anyway, at one point I was getting ready to go on an extended trip to France. It was a small workplace and so everyone anglo or franco knew I was going away.

So one guy working on the anglo side pulls me aside a few days before my departure. I sense he wants to have a big brother kind of chat. He's maybe five years older than me. Originally from K-W or London or St. Thomas. Somewhere like that. Speaks nothing but English of course.

So he tells me he has a word of advice for me in France: Speak English all the time, boy. They won't talk you, understand you or give you the time of day if you talk to them in your French. So just use English over there and you'll be fine. Don't even try with French.

So I said, thanks for the advice, but you know... I've dealt with French people before. Lots of them. And you know, I work in media... in French. But thanks for the advice.

After which he becomes more persistent: You don't seem to get it. You gotta speak English over there. I am telling you, even though you don't believe me. Your French is not real French. And they know it.

Acajack: Yup, sure. Thanks for the advice. I am sure I will be fine regardless of the language I choose to use with them.

That Guy: You don't believe me I can tell, but you will see what I mean when you get there.

Acajack: Thanks again.... and bye. starts leaving the room

That Guy: You'll seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! voice fades into the distance

[kool maudit]

you should have told him "thanks, and keep the same thing in mind next time you're in england."

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

you should have told him "thanks, and keep the same thing in mind next time you're in england."

I hadn't thought of that rebuttal yet at the time, but since then I have used variants of it on occasion.

[SignalHillHiker]

RE: The Valley... there are some similarities in the pace but it's just so... American, really, isn't it? It doesn't sound like us to my ears. But it is definitely closer than, say, stereotypical hoser speech. Not as close as Cape Breton, however.

*****

I dies at this one. ;-)

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There are other ways to use it, too. If you just really love/enjoy something.

I dies to drag off sure!
I dies for a bit of Mary Brown's!

Etc.

[kwoldtimer]

Eastern Ontario still ringing in my ears (cows produce "melk", doncha know) I am wondering how people pronounce "bagel" across the country? I have on several occasions in Kingston and points east heard people pronounce it "BAG-ul", whereas for me it is and can only be "BAY-gull".

How do you pronounce it?

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Eastern Ontario still ringing in my ears (cows produce "melk", doncha know) I am wondering how people pronounce "bagel" across the country? I have on several occasions in Kingston and points east heard people pronounce it "BAG-ul", whereas for me it is and can only be "BAY-gull".

How do you pronounce it?

Does the A in Bag and the A in Bay sound different to you? Because they don't to me.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Boris2k7

Does the A in Bag and the A in Bay sound different to you? Because they don't to me.

Two very different sounds to me. Let me see if I can put it in writing. When I say "bay", it rhymes with the Canadian "eh" (in other words, a long "a"). When I say "bag", the soft "a" is close to my "apple" or "cash". I don't think I have ever heard "bag" pronounced with a long "a" - that would sound a bit like "beg" to me.

[kool maudit]

bayg? like, grocery baygs, or handbaygs?

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Two very different sounds to me. Let me see if I can put it in writing. When I say "bay", it rhymes with the Canadian "eh" (in other words, a long "a"). When I say "bag", the soft "a" is close to my "apple" or "cash". I don't think I have ever heard "bag" pronounced with a long "a" - that would sound a bit like "beg" to me.

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[Docere]

John Diefenbaker was born in Grey County, Ontario in 1895 and moved to Saskatchewan when he was ten. What's his accent? Rural Ontario? Prairies? Extinct?

(As a bonus, we get to hear Dief butcher the French language at about 2 minutes in):

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Digital+Archives/Politics/Prime+Ministers/John+Diefenbaker/ID/1775406397/

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Docere

John Diefenbaker was born in Grey County, Ontario in 1895 and moved to Saskatchewan when he was ten. What's his accent? Rural Ontario? Prairies? Extinct?

(As a bonus, we get to hear Dief butcher the French language at about 2 minutes in):

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Digital+Archives/Politics/Prime+Ministers/John+Diefenbaker/ID/1775406397/

OK... I though it would be his infamous "vos veaux sont après chier" (your calves are shitting at the moment) speech, when he intended to say "vos voeux sont appréciés" (your good wishes are appreciated).

My parents still talk about that one.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Italian-Canadians in Ottawa and Toronto usually sound like regular Anglo-Canadians to me.

If they live in a heavily Italian area, I think there's an "ethnolect."

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by esquire

Cotler always struck me as having a very distinctive accent. Before hearing him speak, I don't think I ever heard a native-born Canadian make such a strong distinction between marry and merry, for example. His accent seems one-of-a-kind... I chalked it up to a professorial style more than anything else

A distinction between marry and merry is actually relatively common among Anglo-Quebecois, especially those from Montreal. It's one of the distinctive features of their speech.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Docere

John Diefenbaker was born in Grey County, Ontario in 1895 and moved to Saskatchewan when he was ten. What's his accent? Rural Ontario? Prairies? Extinct?

(As a bonus, we get to hear Dief butcher the French language at about 2 minutes in):

http://www.cbc.ca/player/Digital+Archives/Politics/Prime+Ministers/John+Diefenbaker/ID/1775406397/

Diefenbaker's accent sounds totally normal to my ear (his mother, like mine, was an Scot), taking into account that he would be of my grandparents' generation. Now his rhetorical style, a hybrid of Winston Churchill and Presbyterian minister, is another story.

[Xelebes]

Ernest Manning had the American affectations that would come from his generation, children of American settlers. The sough, or nasal intonation that is typically picked up by subsequent generations in Alberta is only beginning to form here and would be more pronounced by Preston Manning. I think Bible Bill had already had that nasal intonation picked up in Ontario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sni-8iqUon8

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Ernest Manning had the American affectations that would come from his generation, children of American settlers. The sough, or nasal intonation that is typically picked up by subsequent generations in Alberta is only beginning to form here and would be more pronounced by Preston Manning. I think Bible Bill had already had that nasal intonation picked up in Ontario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sni-8iqUon8

To my ear, pre Baby Boomer Albertans, of which there weren't many, always sounded similar to the often parodied Minnesota/Fargo accent.

Ernest Manning's parents came from the UK and he grew up in Saskatchewan, so he was unlikely to have been around that many Americans.

It is hard to nail down speech patterns in Alberta as it always been a place where people came from somewhere else.

[Xelebes]

There are some fairly entrenched accents to be found in Alberta. I point to the Wetaskiwin car-salesmen accent as being a distinct example.