Sports in Canadian culture - Page 92

esquire · #**1821** Posted **Jul 28, 2014, 2:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osmo

Because logic doesn't equal profits. Montreal is the poster child of this new model and yet the ALs still don't make any money. Ownership got greedy and over estimated demand in expanding Molson and they haven't sold out a game since and now he has no leverage any more to increase ticket prices higher then normal.

It's different when the ownership is willing to write a cheque for his toy each year, but I've been saying that MLSE has no desire to go into a money loosing venture that would possibly hurt TFC which does make them money. Franchises aren't toys for MLSE, they make money from them. The Marlies are an exception because for logistical reasons it's worthwhile to have your minor league squad close and that is worth the expense.

I would not look at Montreal as a case of a wealthy owner frittering away money on an unprofitable plaything. Sure, most of the expansion and renovation was paid for by the province and the city, but Wetenhall kicked in $6 million of the $29.4 million overall cost. Would you sink that kind of money into a stadium if all you were doing was losing money on the team?

The Als had a good run for a while where they had the a good chunk of the Montreal summer sports scene to themselves (apart from tennis and F1 which are short events), a small stadium which drove up demand and consequently let them raise ticket prices to some of the highest in the league (the cheapest single-game ticket between the 30 yard lines is $107.90, by contrast in Winnipeg you can sit in the upper deck at the 55 for just under $60 all in), and a bevy of corporate sponsorships. Perhaps they aren't profitable anymore now that they have to share the sports page with soccer combined with the fact that the team is now a dud for the first time in franchise history, but that is not really an indication of a chronic long-term problem with the franchise. If Wetenhall tries to sell, that to me would be a clearer indication that dark clouds are looming for the franchise. One Grey Cup game could wash away years of losses for him, so I doubt he's going anywhere soon.

All that being said, the Argos have a good model to follow. It would be far, far better if they had their own stadium in a better location than BMO, but considering the lack of alternatives BMO will have to do. They have to try... after all, what other choice is there?

elly63 · #**1822** Posted **Jul 29, 2014, 12:53 AM**

I don't think the Impact had/have much of an effect on the Als. With Trestman/Calvillo gone the easy good times are over and now they have to work a little harder.

One of the things that does not get mentioned was a few years ago one of their executives alienated a whole lot of employees and I believe sponsors as well. Montreal was doing extremely well with sponsors. They lost a lot of goodwill there and the exec was fired. Haven't heard how well they recovered from this (re the sponsors).

SaskScraper · #**1823** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 6:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's actually not that bad an idea. But the CFL should have thought of this decades ago, long before it got into trouble starting in the 1980s. I'd say the ship on this has sailed and doing it today would dangerously dilute the fan base.

I am a lifelong CFL fan, an I remember the first time I realized something was not right with the CFL is when I went to Melbourne, Australia for the first ime. I noticed the passion for Aussie Rules there, and especially the fact the city and metro had 8-10 pro clubs, each of which drew 15,000-30,000 fans per game.

And when two big city rivals played, you'd get 60,000 fans or more because both fan bases would attend as they were all in the city anyway.

Kind of like what happens on Labour Day in Hamilton with Argo fans who travel to the away game, but that's only once a year.

I agree, seeing Aussie Rules in MCG in Melbourne with their strong fan base I couldn't help but think of how CFL could be like if it had national support across Canada.

Having read a few pages back in this thread (before noticing a looping trend) something that seems apparent is professional sports in this country has definite obstacles. Being next to a pro sports powerhouse like USA probably does make media central part of country have aspirations for only things American..United States dictating what sports & culture is important & relevant and what you are suppose to watch & enjoy.

I've been to countless number of the four main pro sports leagues games in USA plus MLS and CFL all in Western Canadian Cities, plus College football in Texas & AZ & Saskatchewan and various minor sports such as WHL, AHL hockey, Goldeyes of American Association Baseball etc. But I must say Rider Football in Regina especially in its current renaissance is the most fun & memorable. Fans go to extremes at games completely decked out in green in more creative ways then I've ever seen and certainly don't hold back cheering. I think a part of the live sports viewing experience has a lot to do with the fans & their responsibility to be in mood to enjoy the product thats being presented to them and know how to participate. If you think getting a NFL team is the only key to the ultimate in sporting entertainment then you are missing out & don't even know it.

MrOilers · #**1824** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 5:59 PM**

If even half the people I have met who said "I'd love to see a Canadian NHL team bring the Stanley Cup back to Canada" supported the CFL, these conversations would not exist.

In my opinion, the most pro-Canadian thing a sports fan can do is support the CFL. The league has an excellent on-field product and a long, fantastic, and interesting history. And football fans are some of the worst - you don't have to spite the CFL just because you watch NFL games.

FrankieFlowerpot · #**1825** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 8:31 PM**

Jays drew 1.1million for the game last night - that's their highest non home opener rating on Rogers ever

esquire · #**1826** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 8:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Jays drew 1.1million for the game last night - that's their highest non home opener rating on Rogers ever

Very impressive for the regular season. Was there something significant about that game?

Ramako · #**1827** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 8:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Jays drew 1.1million for the game last night - that's their highest non home opener rating on Rogers ever

That's what happens when the Jays are in the play-off race (currently in sole possession of the second wild card spot, and 2.5 games behind the division lead) in late July.

suburbanite · #**1828** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 10:41 PM**

Pretty impressive giving the number of injuries too. If the team can get healthy and finish off the season strong, we could see some serious TV ratings.

memememe76 · #**1829** Posted **Jul 30, 2014, 10:43 PM**

Quote:

If even half the people I have met who said "I'd love to see a Canadian NHL team bring the Stanley Cup back to Canada" supported the CFL, these conversations would not exist.

Who says that? As a Canucks fan, I couldn't care less whether the Oilers, Leafs, or Flames ever win the Cup. I suppose someone who happens to like another Canadian team (the Habs, Jets and Senators don't get the same level of animosity) will use that argument or someone who isn't particularly partial to any one team, but I can't imagine it's that common.

GlassCity · #**1830** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 12:01 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by memememe76

Who says that? As a Canucks fan, I couldn't care less whether the Oilers, Leafs, or Flames ever win the Cup. I suppose someone who happens to like another Canadian team (the Habs, Jets and Senators don't get the same level of animosity) will use that argument or someone who isn't particularly partial to any one team, but I can't imagine it's that common.

Although I don't agree with it or understand why, people do say it all the time...

Pinion · #**1831** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 12:11 AM**

I've never seen anyone who actually cares about hockey say the "I want the Cup back in Canada" thing. Real Canadian hockey fans hate each other.

My family left Vancouver in 1981 and came back in 1987 and CFL support completely collapsed in that time. My parents were shocked by the change. Now it seems like nothing will bring it back - meanwhile Seahawks logos are everywhere after their superbowl win.

Dr Awesomesauce · #**1832** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 12:45 AM**

Re Alouettes losing money

Yeah, I'm not the Alouettes' accountant or anything but I'm pretty sure that's complete bollocks. It's just a part of the ongoing and tiresome routine owners play with governments year after year. I.e. We're losing money. Give us a tax break/ hand out. Team's gonna fold/ move. Blah blah blah. Don't drink Kool Aid, as the kids say.

SaskScraper · #**1833** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 6:28 AM**

Anybody following Commonwealth Games in Glasgow Scotland?
Canada was placed 4th in the medal standings earlier in the week but have now placed a strong 3rd place after day 7. England & Australia are neck & neck for first and second place.

Berklon · #**1834** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 10:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Anybody following Commonwealth Games in Glasgow Scotland?
Canada was placed 4th in the medal standings earlier in the week but have now placed a strong 3rd place after day 7. England & Australia are neck & neck for first and second place.

So far I saw exactly one single news item on the Commonwealth Games and I haven't heard anyone talk about it. That's how much people care about it.

This is equivalent to the Pan-Am games, except we'll hear more that since Toronto will be hosting that huge waste of money. The media will try hard to make people care about it - but no one will.

esquire · #**1835** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 1:45 PM**

(Didn't want to clog up the stadium thread with more baseball-related chatter, so I've posted this followup to Acajack's post here)

Manitoba was definitely solid Blue Jays country from the late 80s to the mid 90s. To the point where some small town radio stations carried every game on the radio... impressive, considering that the team played a thousand miles away.

The Jays peaked around the time that I was in junior high... not everyone liked the Jays and I do recall a good number of Twins, A's and Braves fans. But thinking back, a kid saying that he was cheering for the Expos would have seemed as weird as randomly picking, say, the Cincinnati Reds as your favourite team. The Expos did get a few more fans after the Jays peaked, but nowhere near the levels of support that the Jays had. I'd say that the Blue Jays were easily the most popular non-Winnipeg sports team in Manitoba during the early 90s (these days, I'd say that the Canadiens and Roughriders fight over that title).

The Jays have dropped off big-time in popularity around here and I doubt they'll ever get to their early 90s heights again in Manitoba given that baseball just seems less popular across the board. But that said, there has been a noticeable resurgence in popularity over the past few years... you see the odd kid wearing Blue Jays stuff now which you would have definitely not seen 5 or 6 years ago.

Acajack · #**1836** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 1:51 PM**

Canada AM had an item this morning about Toronto's bid for the NFL's Buffalo Bills.

I missed the part where they discussed whether or not they had a chance, but got the bit where the guy said that the NFL in Toronto would hurt the CFL at all.

Points he made:

- CFL is as strong as ever in 2014
- CFL would stronger without the Argos which are its weakest link
- No one cares about the CFL in Toronto anyway

The guy was Howard Bloom from Ottawa. Billed as a sports business expert.

I think I know him from when he owned a sports apparel shop in Ottawa. He also sold bus packages for Habs and Expos games out of his sports shop when I was a kid.

esquire · #**1837** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 2:03 PM**

^ It would have been different 20 years ago, but I would daresay that the NFL coming to Toronto would have little bearing on the Argos at this point. That's partly because the Argos have reached such depths that even the arrival of the NFL probably wouldn't make things worse. Frankly, if anything the renewed attention to football might even help lift the Argos' fortunes a little bit.

The reality is that a NFL team would require a serious financial commitment by Toronto ticketbuyers and sponsors. The Argos, by contrast, would thrive with 20,000 season ticketholders and a relatively modest contingent of sponsors. In other words, the Argos need so little relative to a NFL team that I don't think it can be said that a NFL team would stand in the way of them getting that.

But man, you would think that if Toronto was really serious that someone could step up and seal the deal. I mean, how many Toronto people would have thought that the Jets would come back to Winnipeg before their town would get a NFL team? This NFL-to-Toronto chatter has been going on for over 20 years now and doesn't seem any closer to reaching a conclusion than it did in the early 90s.

Berklon · #**1838** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 2:05 PM**

Well it may be a moot point anyway, as it seems the Sabres owner put in a bid and seems to be VERY determined to make sure his bid wins so he can keep the team in Buffalo.

But even if he does wind up buying the team, he still needs to get a new stadium built.

I wish the 20,000 fans from Canada that go down to Bills games every game would just stop going altogether - not sure why they're supporting the Bills (even if a nice chunk that go are actually fans of the opposing team). The same with the Sabres. Southern Ontario is being locked out of another NHL team because it would hurt the Sabres - when in fact Canada's helping them remain alive. We should let them try and support themselves, and if they can't survive on their won - too bad.

But this is Canada, where we whine and complain about things, but do nothing about and bend over and take it.

Acajack · #**1839** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 2:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berklon

Well it may be a moot point anyway, as it seems the Sabres owner put in a bid and seems to be VERY determined to make sure his bid wins so he can keep the team in Buffalo.

But even if he does wind up buying the team, he still needs to get a new stadium built.

I wish the 20,000 fans from Canada that go down to Bills games every game would just stop going altogether - not sure why they're supporting the Bills (even if a nice chunk that go are actually fans of the opposing team). The same with the Sabres. Southern Ontario is being locked out of another NHL team because it would hurt the Sabres - when in fact Canada's helping them remain alive. We should let them try and support themselves, and if they can't survive on their won - too bad.

But this is Canada, where we whine and complain about things, but do nothing about and bend over and take it.

Is the Bills' current stadium in Orchard Park that bad?

esquire · #**1840** Posted **Jul 31, 2014, 2:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is the Bills' current stadium in Orchard Park that bad?

Considering it is now over 40 years old, it's ancient by NFL standards. It must be missing all kinds of revenue-generating - oops, I mean experience-enhancing features that the other teams all have.

Berklon is dead right, though. I would think that the Buffalo teams would be a lot less viable without the reliable fan support from Ontario. Wouldn't it be ironic if the Ontario fan support for the Bills made the difference in keeping the team from moving to Toronto?