HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Calgary > General Discussions, Culture, Dining, Sports & Recreation


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #221  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 12:20 AM
ByeByeBaby's Avatar
ByeByeBaby ByeByeBaby is offline
Crunchin' the numbers.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: T2R, YYC, 403, CA-AB.
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Mountain View Post
What community has nearly 100% rentals?
It's a good trivia question. Here are hints:

1. It's not in the central city or dense; the tallest building is 4 stories, and the WalkScore is 48.
2. Very few people live in this community; only a few hundred.
3. Despite being 100% rental dwellings, most Calgarians who wind up in this community are there for the very long term.
4. It is the only community as far as I know with a single street address and a single website.
5. It is in the north central part of the city.

The community in question is:

The next highest communities for rentals are Manchester (93% rental, not on chart since over half the housing was built recently), Downtown Commercial Core (90% rental), and Sunalta (73% rental). 65% of the units in the official Centre City are rental, versus 30% citywide.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #222  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 12:40 AM
Full Mountain's Avatar
Full Mountain Full Mountain is offline
YIMBY
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby View Post
It's a good trivia question. Here are hints:

1. It's not in the central city or dense; the tallest building is 4 stories, and the WalkScore is 48.
2. Very few people live in this community; only a few hundred.
3. Despite being 100% rental dwellings, most Calgarians who wind up in this community are there for the very long term.
4. It is the only community as far as I know with a single street address and a single website.
5. It is in the north central part of the city.

The community in question is:

The next highest communities for rentals are Manchester (93% rental, not on chart since over half the housing was built recently), Downtown Commercial Core (90% rental), and Sunalta (73% rental). 65% of the units in the official Centre City are rental, versus 30% citywide.
Interesting, they need to add a column for permanent residents
__________________
Incremental Photo - @PhotogX_1

Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own not those of any affiliated organizations.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #223  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 12:57 AM
Fuzz's Avatar
Fuzz Fuzz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,421
Ha, I guessed right, before looking. Helps that I live across the street, though...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #224  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2014, 1:57 PM
bt04ku's Avatar
bt04ku bt04ku is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 291
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusili View Post
It shouldn't include those towers, those would be in Manchester (who's dwelling count change reflects those new towers). 800 new people in just 2400 dwelling units would mean every third house has added a person in the last five years. Possible for sure, but that is a significant change in a short time. Maybe there is a large movement out from empty-nesters and lots of new families moving in?
That seems pretty believable for the neighborhood. A lot of young couples have been moving there as an alternative to Elboya. With a lot of construction (not adding new units, but replacing old ones) there would be more people moving back into those lots at a rate higher than most neighborhoods, many of which now seem to be rental properties now so a lot of empty-nesters to new families and 3-4 person rentals in the past few years.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #225  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2014, 2:27 PM
Rusty van Reddick's Avatar
Rusty van Reddick Rusty van Reddick is offline
formerly-furry flâneur
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bankview, Calgary
Posts: 6,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby View Post
The next highest communities for rentals are Manchester (93% rental, not on chart since over half the housing was built recently), Downtown Commercial Core (90% rental), and Sunalta (73% rental). 65% of the units in the official Centre City are rental, versus 30% citywide.
Bankview is also 73%. It was 75% last year and was 82% a few years ago- I don't know what its peak was for this, but it's consistently gone down.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #226  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2014, 2:44 PM
Surrealplaces's Avatar
Surrealplaces Surrealplaces is offline
Editor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cowtropolis
Posts: 20,266
Panorama has done quite well at getting a lot of people into one area....they'll probably have the lead for some time. Ultimately at some point the Beltline will be the most populous neighborhood, but it might be a few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbia View Post
No doubt that it is not fair comparing newer areas to older ones. That being said, *no* area of Calgary ever had as many people as Panorama has now. Additionally, you'll note something quite different when you compare Tuscany to Panorama. Panorama has about twice the percentage of homes not being single family, and I think that is of note. The two areas are quite different in this sense.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #227  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2014, 4:08 PM
You Need A Thneed's Avatar
You Need A Thneed You Need A Thneed is offline
Construction Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Castleridge, NE Calgary
Posts: 5,892
Panorama is also a huge area. It topping the list is nothing more than that, really.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #228  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 2:44 PM
Spring2008 Spring2008 is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lower Mount Royal, Calgary
Posts: 5,147
Beltline population is now 21,357, I expect this number to soar over the next 5 years as there's still a lot of u/c towers that haven't yet been delivered. Guardian North & South, and The Metropolitan alone will add about 1,050 units or 1,500 people.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #229  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 3:41 PM
UofC.engineer's Avatar
UofC.engineer UofC.engineer is offline
Laura Palmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Twin Peaks, Calgary, AB
Posts: 1,033
I found this document today regarding Developed Areas Growth & Change in 2014:

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documents/Publications/developed-areas-growth.pdf

The report calls for more housing units in developed areas.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #230  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 3:59 PM
fusili's Avatar
fusili fusili is offline
Retrofit Urbanist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by UofC.engineer View Post
I found this document today regarding Developed Areas Growth & Change in 2014:

http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documents/Publications/developed-areas-growth.pdf

The report calls for more housing units in developed areas.
I always have issues with studies like this one. They assume that any property that isn't built to full density is developable, thus skewing their perception of how much zoned lane there is for redevelopment. A couple who refuses to sell and wants to live in their home for 20 more years is not a developable property (and there is nothing wrong with that). A 3 storey building that is zoned for a four storey building is not developable. They use building value to land value ratio as a proxy for measuring develop-ability, but that assumes that zoning is in place to allow for redevelopment. A crappy bungalow on an expensive property is redevelopable into a nicer house, but it doesn't add density.

Quote:
A parcel is considered ‘underutilized’ and a candidate for redevelopment if building value is less than 50% of land value
__________________
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #231  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 4:02 PM
Full Mountain's Avatar
Full Mountain Full Mountain is offline
YIMBY
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,938
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusili View Post
I always have issues with studies like this one. They assume that any property that isn't built to full density is developable, thus skewing their perception of how much zoned lane there is for redevelopment. A couple who refuses to sell and wants to live in their home for 20 more years is not a developable property (and there is nothing wrong with that). A 3 storey building that is zoned for a four storey building is not developable. They use building value to land value ratio as a proxy for measuring develop-ability, but that assumes that zoning is in place to allow for redevelopment. A crappy bungalow on an expensive property is redevelopable into a nicer house, but it doesn't add density.
So my 7.6m lot is considered developable even though I plan on retiring there?! And as you mention all I could put on the lot is a more expensive detached house...that's some wacked definition.
__________________
Incremental Photo - @PhotogX_1

Disclaimer: All opinions expressed are my own not those of any affiliated organizations.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #232  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 4:17 PM
fusili's Avatar
fusili fusili is offline
Retrofit Urbanist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Mountain View Post
So my 7.6m lot is considered developable even though I plan on retiring there?! And as you mention all I could put on the lot is a more expensive detached house...that's some wacked definition.
They do acknowledge that obviously you can't go into detail with every property. However, I think they should test some of their assumptions. Maybe choose 5 or 6 "batches" of properties, test their assumptions on them, and then add a multiplier to each category they made assumptions with. So instead of assuming every single family home in an R-C2 lot can be redeveloped, maybe it is closer to 60%.
__________________
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #233  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 5:13 PM
Surrealplaces's Avatar
Surrealplaces Surrealplaces is offline
Editor
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cowtropolis
Posts: 20,266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring2008 View Post
Beltline population is now 21,357, I expect this number to soar over the next 5 years as there's still a lot of u/c towers that haven't yet been delivered. Guardian North & South, and The Metropolitan alone will add about 1,050 units or 1,500 people.
It wasn't that long ago that the Beltline was around 16K. A total success story for sure, with more to come.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #234  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 5:42 PM
ByeByeBaby's Avatar
ByeByeBaby ByeByeBaby is offline
Crunchin' the numbers.
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: T2R, YYC, 403, CA-AB.
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusili View Post
I always have issues with studies like this one. They assume that any property that isn't built to full density is developable, thus skewing their perception of how much zoned lane there is for redevelopment. A couple who refuses to sell and wants to live in their home for 20 more years is not a developable property (and there is nothing wrong with that). A 3 storey building that is zoned for a four storey building is not developable. They use building value to land value ratio as a proxy for measuring develop-ability, but that assumes that zoning is in place to allow for redevelopment. A crappy bungalow on an expensive property is redevelopable into a nicer house, but it doesn't add density.
You are basically quoting the study here (page 1-5), so I'm not sure you disagree as much as you think. I think we can all agree that it doesn't make sense to interview 300,000 homeowners individually to see if they want to live in their home for 20 more years, and update that on a regular basis. An assumption has to be made; you can then look at the assumption and see if it's optimistic or pessimistic. It seems pretty clear that this is an optimistic assumption of what the total potential capacity will be.

I think the main takeaway is that the MDP is not achievable with current policy and plans; that to meet the MDP target we need ~80K new units in developed areas over 25 years. By looking at the space for redevelopment based on local area plans, we have room for 60K - and only if every single parcel is built to maximum density, which we all know they won't be. By looking at "underutilized" and vacant land, there's ~53K units, and of course not every vacant parcel in the city will be developed and as you (and the report) point out, many if not most of the underutilized parcels will remain at their level of development. And these seem to be two ways of looking at the same target, not overlapping categories where we only need ~40K from each.

The real problem is shown on page 1-6. Even with the highest possible densification assumptions it is not possible to meet (or even get more than 2/3 of) the 25 year target for 33% growth in established communities under current policy and plans hides the challenges with the long range target of 50% of growth in established areas over 60-70 years. If you assume the same absolute growth for the 25 to 65 year time frame (which is very pessimistic - it's a massive drop in relative growth), for the growth in established areas to be 50% of the total, there would need to be 66% growth in established communities over the 2039-2076 time frame. We've already established that the 2039 target cannot be met by building every TOD node and vacant inner city parcel to maximum density. So how the flaming hell will we meet the far more ambitious 2076 target given that we would be starting from a place where we have already developed every TOD node and vacant inner city parcel to maximum density?

If you make a generous assumption and the total capacity far exceeds the need, then you can see if a pared-down more sophisticated assumption still permits you to match your target. But if the generous assumption shows there is no way you will meet your target, then what is the point in refining the assumption?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #235  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 6:02 PM
fusili's Avatar
fusili fusili is offline
Retrofit Urbanist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby View Post
You are basically quoting the study here (page 1-5), so I'm not sure you disagree as much as you think. I think we can all agree that it doesn't make sense to interview 300,000 homeowners individually to see if they want to live in their home for 20 more years, and update that on a regular basis. An assumption has to be made; you can then look at the assumption and see if it's optimistic or pessimistic. It seems pretty clear that this is an optimistic assumption of what the total potential capacity will be.

I think the main takeaway is that the MDP is not achievable with current policy and plans; that to meet the MDP target we need ~80K new units in developed areas over 25 years. By looking at the space for redevelopment based on local area plans, we have room for 60K - and only if every single parcel is built to maximum density, which we all know they won't be. By looking at "underutilized" and vacant land, there's ~53K units, and of course not every vacant parcel in the city will be developed and as you (and the report) point out, many if not most of the underutilized parcels will remain at their level of development. And these seem to be two ways of looking at the same target, not overlapping categories where we only need ~40K from each.

The real problem is shown on page 1-6. Even with the highest possible densification assumptions it is not possible to meet (or even get more than 2/3 of) the 25 year target for 33% growth in established communities under current policy and plans hides the challenges with the long range target of 50% of growth in established areas over 60-70 years. If you assume the same absolute growth for the 25 to 65 year time frame (which is very pessimistic - it's a massive drop in relative growth), for the growth in established areas to be 50% of the total, there would need to be 66% growth in established communities over the 2039-2076 time frame. We've already established that the 2039 target cannot be met by building every TOD node and vacant inner city parcel to maximum density. So how the flaming hell will we meet the far more ambitious 2076 target given that we would be starting from a place where we have already developed every TOD node and vacant inner city parcel to maximum density?

If you make a generous assumption and the total capacity far exceeds the need, then you can see if a pared-down more sophisticated assumption still permits you to match your target. But if the generous assumption shows there is no way you will meet your target, then what is the point in refining the assumption?
Exactly. This report, more than anything (and I have to read it in it's entirety still), illustrates that with current zoning, we are a long way off of meeting our ability to accommodate the level of growth we need. Even building out units to bylaw maximums (which many may not be able to due to lot size, existing development, owner preferences, etc,etc) we are falling short. What this means is that we need to increased zoned supply. There are a bunch of corridors that are terribly under-zoned (37th street, Kensington Road between 14th and Crowchild, Centre Street, Elbow Drive, 4th street) and in general, our inner city is as well.

We need to speed up the process of allowing mid-rise on our corridors (as mentioned above) and higher density in the inner city, specifically allowing secondary suites within semi-detached dwellings and allowing backyard suites. A bunch of revisions to the land use bylaw to allow exactly this is going to Council in September (IIRC). The question will really be if the City decides to start rezoning land, or if they will leave it up to applicants, which will definitely slow down the process and restrict supply.
__________________
Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #236  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 9:35 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by You Need A Thneed View Post
Panorama is also a huge area. It topping the list is nothing more than that, really.
True that it does have a lot of parks, golf courses, and land left in its natural conditions protecting major of escapements. Remember that my point was that it has twice the percentage of non-SFH as something like Tuscany. In that sense, land area doesn't come into play anyway.

Honestly, there are a LOT of medium density buildings in Panorama. Some around North Pointe, but mostly around the gates of Panorama Hills, which is the commercial area in the middle of Panorama that includes, for example, an in-community Save-on-foods. Almost all sides of this are *many* 4 floor condos (I know they are not 50 floors, but still medium density), a lot of row housing, and then a tonne of semi-detached. This central dense core is what is driving Panorama numbers. It will continue to rise next year, likely well past 26,000.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #237  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2014, 9:37 PM
suburbia suburbia is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 6,271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surrealplaces View Post
It wasn't that long ago that the Beltline was around 16K. A total success story for sure, with more to come.
I'm hoping for it to be 30K by end of the decade. Is a stretch, but possible with a few largish projects. Finger's crossed.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #238  
Old Posted Aug 5, 2014, 11:54 PM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 22,842
30 000 by 2020 would be awesome It would be one of the most densely populated neighbourhoods in the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spring2008 View Post
Beltline population is now 21,357, I expect this number to soar over the next 5 years as there's still a lot of u/c towers that haven't yet been delivered. Guardian North & South, and The Metropolitan alone will add about 1,050 units or 1,500 people.
25 000 by 2016? For a density of around 11 400/ km2!
__________________
Strong & Free

Mohkínstsis — 1.6 million people at the Foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 400 high-rises, a 300-metre SE to NW climb, over 1000 kilometres of pathways, with 20% of the urban area as parkland.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #239  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 12:07 AM
Chadillaccc's Avatar
Chadillaccc Chadillaccc is offline
ARTchitecture
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cala Ghearraidh
Posts: 22,842
I just did a calculation that shows we could easily be at 1 400 000 within the City of Calgary by 2020, even if growth slows. That would put our metro around 1 600 000.
__________________
Strong & Free

Mohkínstsis — 1.6 million people at the Foothills of the Rocky Mountains, 400 high-rises, a 300-metre SE to NW climb, over 1000 kilometres of pathways, with 20% of the urban area as parkland.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #240  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2014, 12:42 AM
RyLucky's Avatar
RyLucky RyLucky is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadillaccc View Post
30 000 by 2020 would be awesome It would be one of the most densely populated neighbourhoods in the country.



25 000 by 2016? For a density of around 11 400/ km2!
How does that compare to neighbourhoods in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, etc?

I don't see us ever catching Toronto or Vancouver's density in the near future... There are just too many massive developments going in those cities, and too much available land in Calgary. That said, I suppose it all depends on how we define neighbourhood boundaries.

Density (alone) is not my wish for Calgary. I just want a livable, multimodal, healthy, happy city. Density in the right corridors, and especially in the inner city, will help to achieve that (ie. make better transit&retail feasible).
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Calgary > General Discussions, Culture, Dining, Sports & Recreation
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:39 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.