DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[DenverInfill]

Regarding the elevator, there's apparently a minor issue with the elevator. I've been told it will likely be resolved by early August. It's unfortunate that it wasn't ready in time for this grand opening, but is should be only a matter of another week or two.

Also, in late September through early October, the big piece of public art will be installed on the bridge in the center over the tracks.

[Brainpathology]

I can't imagine the Skyhouse won't happen. It may already be finished in some field somewhere already. To be rolled in all at once on the back of a truck.

[bunt_q]

Hey don't hate on the manufactured housing, that's the next big thing in affordable housing (and has been for the last 40 years). I'm hoping we truck in three or four of these before the good people of central Denver realize they're attracting the undesirables. (You know, white riffraff who only make $75k per year.)

[Brainpathology]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Hey don't hate on the manufactured housing, that's the next big thing in affordable housing (and has been for the last 40 years). I'm hoping we truck in three or four of these before the good people of central Denver realize they're attracting the undesirables. (You know, white riffraff who only make $75k per year.)

I wasn't hating, much worse has been built that didn't have twins elsewhere... and from what I remember they aren't pricing these at 'barely need a masters degree to afford' levels anyway. It's just so automatic now to the developer that wondering if it will be built approaches wondering if the 5th bench press in a 10 rep set is likely to happen.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by BG918

For those that don't know what these are:
1. 1401 Lawrence Office Building - 22 story office tower at 14th & Lawrence on the parking lot behind Larimer Square and next to CU-Denver Business School
2. 1144 15th Street Office Building - 42 story office tower at 15th & Lawrence/Arapahoe next to the Four Seasons, designed by Pickard Chilton
3. Eviva Apartment Building - 17 story apartment tower on the parking lots at 13th & Cherokee in the Golden Triangle
4. The Confluence Apartment Building - 32 story apartment tower at 15th & Little Raven next to Confluence Park
5. Skyhouse Apartment Building - 25 story apartment tower and adjacent parking garage at 18th & Broadway/Lincoln
6. 1801 Wewatta Hotel/Office Building - proposal for 200,000 SF of office and 185 room hotel at 18th & Wewatta near Union Station
7. Tabor 2 Office Building - 31 story office tower at 17th & Larimer connected to Tabor Center
8. Alexan Uptown Apartment Building - 12 story apartment tower at 19th/20th & Logan in Uptown
9. Z Block Office Building - 6 story office building at 18th & Wazee, apartments along Blake and hotel at 19th & Wazee
10. 999 17th Street Residential/Office Building - 28 story apartment tower at 18th & Curtis and 9 story office tower at 17th & Curtis

Thank you for doing this. I just assumed everyone knew, but you know what they say----

I left off block 162, because in my mind I still just think it won't ever happen. Unlike Tabor 2 which always seems to just wanna start and then a financial crisis occurs, but with block 162 I just don't ever see it happening.

Like you said if even half of these projects happen it will be an amazing crane extravaganza for which I want full coverage Ryan.

On the same note, apartment construction is still not keeping up with demand or so they say. Why not Skyhouse and Confluence? I've got my fingers crossed and I've been chanting for months now for Confluence. I chanted for the Four Seasons tower for months and then it broke ground, obviously it was me that made it happen. Obviously.

[bcp]

Originally Posted by Denver

Any one know if this project is still on/has broken ground? 1373 Central St. There are units that are being marketed by Sotheby's and according to the website, construction is supposed to be complete by Feb 2015.





http://www.fullersothebysrealty.com/eng/...7848/1737-central-street-denver-co-80211

Yes - this is now UC...excavation is done, shoring is happening

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by Denver

Any one know if this project is still on/has broken ground? 1373 Central St. There are units that are being marketed by Sotheby's and according to the website, construction is supposed to be complete by Feb 2015.

My info was old...Thanks BCP

[mr1138]

Great Pictures! The shameless Denver booster in me says that these really need to be posted to the national transportation forum ASAP while the news is still fresh.

Originally Posted by RyanD

Of course I did!

Denver Union Station: Final Update – Grand Opening
via DenverInfill

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Hey don't hate on the manufactured housing, that's the next big thing in affordable housing (and has been for the last 40 years). I'm hoping we truck in three or four of these before the good people of central Denver realize they're attracting the undesirables. (You know, white riffraff who only make $75k per year.)

That's always been said and, while it may be true for single-family homes, I'm still waiting to see hundreds of manufactured multi-family units that come in as affordable where you can build a 10, 20, or even 30-story tower. Forest City tried to do this in New York City at the Barclay's Center and it ended up being a fiasco where a conventional build was cheaper.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by mr1138

Great Pictures! The shameless Denver booster in me says that these really need to be posted to the national transportation forum ASAP while the news is still fresh.

Thanks!! It has been reposted!!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

That's always been said and, while it may be true for single-family homes, I'm still waiting to see hundreds of manufactured multi-family units that come in as affordable where you can build a 10, 20, or even 30-story tower. Forest City tried to do this in New York City at the Barclay's Center and it ended up being a fiasco where a conventional build was cheaper.

LOL... I had read about that but didn't know the outcome. I used to frequent NetsDaily and followed the Barclay's Center construction and read about other development out of curiosity.
Bruce Ratner has been on Bloomberg tee vee couple of times. He and Mikhail Prokhorov are quite a pair.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

So which projects out of this list do we really think will happen?

1. 1401 Lawrence Office Building
2. 1144 15th Street Office Building
3. Eviva Apartment Building
4. The Confluence Apartment Building
5. Skyhouse Apartment Building
6. 1801 Wewatta Hotel/Office Building
7. Tabor 2 Office Building
8. Alexan Uptown Apartment Building
9. Z Block Office Building
10. 999 17th Street Residential/Office Building

Hmmmm....

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9. So 8/10. I'm on the fence about 1801 Wewatta, but I've got high hopes for 1401 Lawrence despite an apparent difficulty in the pre-leasing game.

[Paulopolis]

I think 2-6 and 9 will make it.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

I left off block 162, because in my mind I still just think it won't ever happen. Unlike Tabor 2 which always seems to just wanna start and then a financial crisis occurs, but with block 162 I just don't ever see it happening.

Another large hotel could definitely work at that location. Lose the space needle and scale down the office tower along California, and bring back City Target, and it could be viable. This is actually a location where a 30-40 story hotel would be appropriate and needed. Shames and Evan Makovsky can unfortunately afford to just sit on such a prime piece of real estate.

[navyweaxguy]

Why isn't there more outcry about Block 162? There was so much energy put into getting Fontius freed up and cleaned up. The buzz around development got people excited. Now we just accept that nothing may happen there for an indefinite time. Seems like such a waste.

I keep reading that Denver is such a great place to do business, but yet big companies aren't moving in.

Sorry just frustrated with settling for whatever scraps it seems like we are getting. Stick built apartments don't do anything for me. They don't don't age well.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by navyweaxguy

I keep reading that Denver is such a great place to do business, but yet big companies aren't moving in.

Sorry just frustrated with settling for whatever scraps it seems like we are getting. Stick built apartments don't do anything for me. They don't don't age well.

Colorado/Denver is doing a lot of things right; it is an awesome place. That said the post recession environment has left the state at a competitive disadvantage to a significant degree.

Wong has referenced population density before. That is still mostly east of the Mississippi. Industrial migration has been to southern states. General business and finance migration has favored gateway cities.

While not the biggest factor some executives prefer a right to work state when considering expansion and looking at overall costs. For example, State Farm may still be domiciled in Bloomington IL but when creating new regional centers of a couple million square feet, they chose Atlanta, Phoenix/Tempe and Dallas/Richardson.

Bottom line: for the more rare headquarters relocation most companies will prefer to be more strategically located. When expanding other locations are often more cost competitive.

Not only do I pound the table for the Convention Center but also for DIA. For a growing mid-size company like Davita, Denver's great airport was a key. Then the CEO decided where he wanted to live in moving from California.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by navyweaxguy

Why isn't there more outcry about Block 162? There was so much energy put into getting Fontius freed up and cleaned up. The buzz around development got people excited. Now we just accept that nothing may happen there for an indefinite time. Seems like such a waste.

I keep reading that Denver is such a great place to do business, but yet big companies aren't moving in.

Sorry just frustrated with settling for whatever scraps it seems like we are getting. Stick built apartments don't do anything for me. They don't don't age well.

The competition between 2nd tier cities for marquis level businesses is intense: Denver is in direct competition with Portland, SLC, the Twin Cities, Austin, Charlotte, and, Richmond (get the trains speeded up between Washington and, Richmond, and the city will really boom). I am sure I skipped a few.

Each of our competitor cities has a different mix of what might draw a company to put major dollars into a downtown office space.

Our problem relates to the ever growing expectations that world businesses have as a baseline, in terms of social ambience, convenient access to powerful politicians and businessman, good public transportation, high worker educational levels, fair natural beauty, and access to world capital.

We are not exceptional in any single category. Fortunately, neither are our US competitor cities.

Instead, we all are competing against world tier I cities that must have great public transportation (including freeways), good interfaces with the truly powerful, highly sought after educated workers, a powerful skyline (particularly if there is no prominent geography), and major world level banks.

I also have to admit that nothing in the metro area including DIA is outstanding, when compared to world competition. Regardless of "why", Denver must improve urban design, public transportation, the quality of post-graduate education, and, the level of publically displayed creativity- from architecture through all the other arts.

As "TakeFive" notes in his signature, Denver has achieved puberty. Now, competition between it's peers and betters becomes even more intense.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Bottom line: for the more rare headquarters relocation most companies will prefer to be more strategically located. When expanding other locations are often more cost competitive.

This is why the answer is to focus on growing locally. Denver's biggest strength is in drawing creative people to the city. We need to foster their ability to create home-grown companies.

What we need to do is get our absolutely horrific city government out of the way. We are one of two cities on the planet that are taxing software as a service (Austin is the other). My company was just hit with a property tax assessment for property that we don't even own (the city just "estimated" it). Don't get me started on Denver's occupational use tax.

This city puts a ton of roadblocks in the way of entrepreneurship. Which is driving people back to Boulder (Talent Riot just cancelled a planned move to the city). The city leadership is, unfortunately, 100% tone-def on the issue.

/rant

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by navyweaxguy

Why isn't there more outcry about Block 162? There was so much energy put into getting Fontius freed up and cleaned up. The buzz around development got people excited. Now we just accept that nothing may happen there for an indefinite time. Seems like such a waste.

I keep reading that Denver is such a great place to do business, but yet big companies aren't moving in.

Sorry just frustrated with settling for whatever scraps it seems like we are getting. Stick built apartments don't do anything for me. They don't don't age well.

Didn't we just get Ardent Mills? Anyway....stick built is being done everywhere...from coast to coast. It's just cheaper and quicker to build.

Perhaps what has been said about taxes is true. Funny, the tax revenue would just be shifted to real estate taxes most likely. Whatever, businesses hate paying taxes, my heart bleeds.

Perhaps block 162 was really just a land bank play by Makovsky. Maybe hes just waiting until someone else comes along and offers the best bang for his buck. I guess i cant blame him.

Navy dont get in a tizzy dude. Rome wasn't built in a day right? And someday a big comet will fall from the sky into the Atlantic ocean and take out the entire east coast (sorry Cirrus) and Denver will take over the world.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Perhaps what has been said about taxes is true. Funny, the tax revenue would just be shifted to real estate taxes most likely. Whatever, businesses hate paying taxes, my heart bleeds.

Of course they do, but there are certain businesses that are quite a bit more sensitive to it. Right now the tax structure is pretty penal to startups and young businesses, and I think that's really bad from a policy perspective.

You're asking young businesses to invest heavily in accounting and legal fees as opposed to building products and investing in the actual business. More established businesses hate paying taxes, but they bear it. They are already capable of doing sophisticated accounting.

Younger businesses die under the weight of it (or more usually, just move to greener pastures).

Anyways, I'm side-tracking the conversation here so I'll stop The key thing here is: if you want a better urban Denver, then we should be making business growth a very high priority. We're kind of doing the opposite right now.