Calgary Public Transit II

[DizzyEdge]

Any sense of what would need to happen for a Northland Village station to be required?

[CTrainDude]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Any sense of what would need to happen for a Northland Village station to be required?

Someone (likely a developer) willing to cover the entire cost.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by fusili

Perhaps we are decades off, but the fact is, Calgary Transit does not have any short, medium or long term plans to bury 7th avenue. Stephan Avenue, for sure, but not 7th.

The same could have been said about the Centre Street LRT or Subway with absolute confidence until the present mayor and council decided the plunge the endeavor into the realm of the purely theoretical. I never said it should be a high priority, only that it is likely to be required before any variation on a NCLRT is built.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by CTrainDude

Someone (likely a developer) willing to cover the entire cost.

So like a giant redevelopment of the mall site + new station.

[Fuzz]

An interesting video on public transit in Canada. Calgary isn't mentioned, but still some good stuff.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/video/glo...e-many-getting-it-wrong/article19738939/

[fusili]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

The same could have been said about the Centre Street LRT or Subway with absolute confidence until the present mayor and council decided the plunge the endeavor into the realm of the purely theoretical. I never said it should be a high priority, only that it is likely to be required before any variation on a NCLRT is built.

I think the fact that not only the 7th avenue subway (if it will ever be built) but also the Stephan Avenue Subway are behind a Green Line construction on Calgary Transit's long range plan makes your statement that the 7th avenue subway is "likely" to be built before the green line pretty hard to defend.

If you can demonstrate that there is a secret plan to build the 7th avenue subway within transit and that the transit planners left it out of their long range capital plan on purpose (and not to mention, hid the entire discussion from council), I'll believe you. But until then, I will go on the basis that the line is in transit's long range capital plan (before the Stephan avenue subway even), that transit is actively doing a route alignment study on the north central route, that they are doing the same for the downtown portion of such a line and that everyone in transit I have ever spoken to says the same.

[Calgarian]

I thought 7th was meant to be a transit street permanently, never to be buried.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I thought 7th was meant to be a transit street permanently, never to be buried.

I think that's what Fusili's getting at, there is no official public plan to bury it, Policy Wonk contends that it will be done before the NC LRT.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I thought 7th was meant to be a transit street permanently, never to be buried.

It could still be kept as a bus transit way or just given over to pedestrians even if the line was buried.

Even if the 202 is buried eventually, it's going to be a long way off - just burying the 201 appears to be in the 10-20 year horizon.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by milomilo

just burying the 201 appears to be in the 10-20 year horizon.

Speaking of which, does anyone have any information on the SE or NC LRT/transtway? It seems things have been quiet for a while. Maybe I'm just not very patient but I really want to see some NC LRT drawings.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Speaking of which, does anyone have any information on the SE or NC LRT/transtway? It seems things have been quite for a while. Maybe I'm just not very patient but I really want to see some NC LRT drawings.

There were a few studies released a few months ago on the alignment which seemed to favour surface running along Centre St, but it's very early days yet and there's nothing concrete. We also had some disheartening announcements that a busway would be built first with LRT following some 30 (!!!) years later - but this has been met with skepticism by a few more informed posters who assured us that this is based on a current funding scheme which is due to be replaced soon, and once the new funding is identified things should move much quicker.

I'm not very informed about that last part so hopefully someone can clear it up a bit better .

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Speaking of which, does anyone have any information on the SE or NC LRT/transtway? It seems things have been quite for a while. Maybe I'm just not very patient but I really want to see some NC LRT drawings.

Things have been quite what?

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

Things have been quite what?

Sorry, I meant to spell quiet, not quite.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by fusili

I think the fact that not only the 7th avenue subway (if it will ever be built) but also the Stephan Avenue Subway are behind a Green Line construction on Calgary Transit's long range plan makes your statement that the 7th avenue subway is "likely" to be built before the green line pretty hard to defend.

Suggesting the "Green Line" LRT will ever be built is pretty hard to defend. A combined SELRT and NCLRT joined by a tunnel running from the SE corner of downtown to at the very least 16th Ave where it will switch to an at grade alignment that was previously unequivocally rejected is sheer fantasy.

The Calgary that builds the SELRT, addresses the downtown bottle necks and builds the NCLRT in some form is going to be roughly as interested in this mayor and council's political theatre as they would be in what Ross P. Alger might have said on the subjects.

This planning has roughly the same credibility as me in a Bugatti dealership. It doesn't matter if after much deliberation I choose the Veyron or the Galibier. Neither will ever be attainable to me.

When Edmonton comes forward with funding for an austere SELRT the city will jump at it and the "Green Line" LRT will never be spoken of again.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Suggesting the "Green Line" LRT will ever be built is pretty hard to defend. A combined SELRT and NCLRT joined by a tunnel running from the SE corner of downtown to at the very least 16th Ave where it will switch to an at grade alignment that was previously unequivocally rejected is sheer fantasy.

Sorry, when did this happen? The impression I have got is pretty much the opposite of what you are stating here. We are one the wealthiest cities on the continent, finding money for a still relatively cheap LRT line shouldn't be too difficult.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by milomilo

There were a few studies released a few months ago on the alignment which seemed to favour surface running along Centre St, but it's very early days yet and there's nothing concrete. We also had some disheartening announcements that a busway would be built first with LRT following some 30 (!!!) years later - but this has been met with skepticism by a few more informed posters who assured us that this is based on a current funding scheme which is due to be replaced soon, and once the new funding is identified things should move much quicker.

I'm not very informed about that last part so hopefully someone can clear it up a bit better .

Thanks for the info, let's hope it get built as an LRT. Hopefully the city finds a successful funding scheme.

[MalcolmTucker]

Money will be cobbled together post MSI, but it will be found. Still years away from being able to tender anything, so no huge concern.

[Aegis]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Suggesting the "Green Line" LRT will ever be built is pretty hard to defend. A combined SELRT and NCLRT joined by a tunnel running from the SE corner of downtown to at the very least 16th Ave where it will switch to an at grade alignment that was previously unequivocally rejected is sheer fantasy.

The Calgary that builds the SELRT, addresses the downtown bottle necks and builds the NCLRT in some form is going to be roughly as interested in this mayor and council's political theatre as they would be in what Ross P. Alger might have said on the subjects.

This planning has roughly the same credibility as me in a Bugatti dealership. It doesn't matter if after much deliberation I choose the Veyron or the Galibier. Neither will ever be attainable to me.

When Edmonton comes forward with funding for an austere SELRT the city will jump at it and the "Green Line" LRT will never be spoken of again.

Can you explain why this is all sheer fantasy?

I feel like the the Ross P. Alger analogy confused rather than clarified what you're trying to say.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by Policy Wonk

Suggesting the "Green Line" LRT will ever be built is pretty hard to defend. A combined SELRT and NCLRT joined by a tunnel running from the SE corner of downtown to at the very least 16th Ave where it will switch to an at grade alignment that was previously unequivocally rejected is sheer fantasy.

It seems to me that you believe that there is some magical date in the past; an idea being "unequivocally rejected" before that magic date is doomed to never happen, even if the vast majority of people in those communities are demanding it now or in the future; meanwhile, an idea that has been unequivocally rejected since that magic date (like the Nose Creek alignment for NCLRT) is just a feint, on some sort of double-secret probation until all the rubes have gone home and the secret army of frozen 1980s transit planners are thawed out and once again rise to hold the city in their iron fist. And an idea that has been rejected both before and after the magic date, like an expensive unnecessary 7th Ave tunnel, is as certain as the sun rising in the East. For some reason.

[Policy Wonk]

Originally Posted by Aegis

Can you explain why this is all sheer fantasy?

Primarily money

I feel like the the Ross P. Alger analogy confused rather than clarified what you're trying to say.

The Calgary that actually has to plan, budget for and build the SELRT, NCLRT and fix the surface bottleneck downtown isn't going to be any more interested in what Nenshi et al planned thirty-five years ago than we are interested in what Alger planned thirty-five years ago.

But it seems to be perceived here that the decisions of this mayor and council are uniquely sacrosanct and actionable in a way those of no previous mayor and council were.