PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Private Dick]

Food trucks belong on the street... and they produce a disproportionate amount of waste (they don't have to, but they do).

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

LOL this is so funny. I saw a 4moms vehicle driving around just yesterday and thought it was interesting.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

So who's gonna build the city's next 50-story building?

Seems like this era companies wisely err wisely towards mixed use buildings rather than have half full mega corporate behemoths.

UPMC could ostensibly build it's own custom HQ building. Highmark as well. US Steel might build something but it wouldn't be very tall.
I feel certain that at some point Pittsburgh will get at least 1 or 2 LARGE apartment towers, like 400+ feet that are so common in other cities like San Diego, Miami, Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto, etc.

[BrianTH]

Just to make us all feel better, here is PNC Tower doing a pretty nice job filling the infamous Wood-Smithfield gap in the skyline, as seen pretty much all along the length of the 16th Street Bridge (the same gap was also very noticeable from the Veterans' Bridge in the foreground):







Edit: By the way, from that angle, it was actually kinda hard to know it isn't in the same height range as Fifth Avenue Place and PPG Place, because relative distance wasn't obvious.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I feel certain that at some point Pittsburgh will get at least 1 or 2 LARGE apartment towers, like 400+ feet that are so common in other cities like San Diego, Miami, Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto, etc.

Indeed, although I guess you can argue that PMC's conversion of the Regional Enterprise Tower/former ALCOA HQ is sorta going to give us our first of those.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Indeed, although I guess you can argue that PMC's conversion of the Regional Enterprise Tower/former ALCOA HQ is sorta going to give us our first of those.

The conversions are great; But I truly think there is a big difference than new construction condos/apts.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Seems like this era companies wisely err wisely towards mixed use buildings rather than have half full mega corporate behemoths.

UPMC could ostensibly build it's own custom HQ building. Highmark as well. US Steel might build something but it wouldn't be very tall.
I feel certain that at some point Pittsburgh will get at least 1 or 2 LARGE apartment towers, like 400+ feet that are so common in other cities like San Diego, Miami, Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto, etc.

Off the top of my head, Comcast, Chevron, Bank of America, Duke Energy, Devon Energy, Goldman Sachs....

all have built those corporate behemoths very recently and more are planned.

A "non-profit" like UPMC or Highmark is not going to build its own HQ tower. Unless they willingly give up their non-profit status... ha!

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Food trucks belong on the street... and they produce a disproportionate amount of waste (they don't have to, but they do).

I wouldn't want the food trucks in Mellon Square, particularly after the renovation. But two or three trucks along the curb of William Penn Place---why not? I wasn't aware of the waste problem with food trucks, but if it is solvable then all the more reason to try. When I worked in town there was little take-out food close by. While a fan of Mellon Square's architecture, I appreciate the comments that it is sterile. The food trucks would ease that a bit. The window service at the Hotel Monaco restaurant will help with this, but a few select trucks parked opposite the William Penn could be a welcome addition.

How does food truck registration work in Pittsburgh? The truck/vendor gets a license and then it can drive anywhere? Or is a neighborhood or specific parking slot assigned? It is a mess in NY---the city has not increased the number of licenses in years so there is a huge secondary market for the legit licenses and there are many forged ones. But the license comes with no assigned location.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

The conversions are great; But I truly think there is a big difference than new construction condos/apts.

Oh yeah. I was really just pointing out the random trivia that the former ALCOA HQ happens to be just over 400 feet.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

I wouldn't want the food trucks in Mellon Square, particularly after the renovation. But two or three trucks along the curb of William Penn Place---why not?

Yeah, that is my thinking. I can respect leaving the Square itself as is, but I assume everyone is OK with people taking food into it. This is just an idea for how to make that easier for folks who want to do that.

That said--designated food truck areas can become a bit of a destination in themselves. And in addition to lunch, I also think this could be a cool evening thing, particularly with all the hotels that will soon be around the Square. Again, the idea is not to mess with the Square itself, but make it easier for people to use it.

How does food truck registration work in Pittsburgh? The truck/vendor gets a license and then it can drive anywhere?

Last I knew the laws were a mess and really made it impossible for food trucks to do a regular business, but Peduto (then on Council) was actually proposing to change those laws. I honestly don't know where all that stands, but this website covers a bunch of these issues as of 2012 I believe, and there is a link to Peduto's proposed changes to the law:

http://pghmobilefood.com/

http://pghmobilefood.com/legislation.pdf

Regardless, I'm definitely thinking this is something where Council would have to be involved, particularly if it included designating portions of Oliver. I don't really know how other cities do it, but I know they do, so some model must exist.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

I wouldn't want the food trucks in Mellon Square, particularly after the renovation. But two or three trucks along the curb of William Penn Place---why not? I wasn't aware of the waste problem with food trucks, but if it is solvable then all the more reason to try. When I worked in town there was little take-out food close by. While a fan of Mellon Square's architecture, I appreciate the comments that it is sterile. The food trucks would ease that a bit. The window service at the Hotel Monaco restaurant will help with this, but a few select trucks parked opposite the William Penn could be a welcome addition.

How does food truck registration work in Pittsburgh? The truck/vendor gets a license and then it can drive anywhere? Or is a neighborhood or specific parking slot assigned? It is a mess in NY---the city has not increased the number of licenses in years so there is a huge secondary market for the legit licenses and there are many forged ones. But the license comes with no assigned location.

I don't think the Omni will want a line of food trucks across from their main entrance... in fact, I'm sure they would protest with strong determination against it. Oliver is not wide enough if located on the street. Sixth, nope. Smithfield on the west side of the street has potential for a food truck line. Though I think there are better spots for food trucks downtown. Overall though, I'm just kind of over the whole food truck thing... now it seems many of them are just mobile versions of restaurants that are delivering food that is actually cooked in the bricks and mortar locales for increasingly high prices yet still often served in styrofoam. And the food trucks that became successful enough have shut down to open actual restaurants. It has yet to really develop in secondary markets like Pittsburgh, but the food truck fad is fading a bit in larger cities.

The area is changing, and with the Hotel Monaco and Embassy Suites opening up across the streets, there will be more foot traffic and thus more take out options in the immediate vicinity. I don't think the park is sterile at all anymore... numerous fountains, waterfall, new extensive plantings, hot office worker chicks, etc. I like it.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Overall though, I'm just kind of over the whole food truck thing... now it seems many of them are just mobile versions of restaurants that are delivering food that is actually cooked in the bricks and mortar locales for increasingly high prices yet still often served in styrofoam. And the food trucks that became successful enough have shut down to open actual restaurants. It has yet to really develop in secondary markets like Pittsburgh, but the food truck fad is fading a bit in larger cities.

There was fatal food truck explosion in Philly recently.

[Private Dick]

^ Holy crap!

[themaguffin]

A "non-profit" like UPMC or Highmark is not going to build its own HQ tower. Unless they willingly give up their non-profit status... ha!

They wouldn't have to build their own. They would have to say they are looking for space and Oxford or somebody would woo them into a new tower with their signage of course...

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I don't think the Omni will want a line of food trucks across from their main entrance... in fact, I'm sure they would protest with strong determination against it. Oliver is not wide enough if located on the street. Sixth, nope. Smithfield on the west side of the street has potential for a food truck line. Though I think there are better spots for food trucks downtown. Overall though, I'm just kind of over the whole food truck thing... now it seems many of them are just mobile versions of restaurants that are delivering food that is actually cooked in the bricks and mortar locales for increasingly high prices yet still often served in styrofoam. And the food trucks that became successful enough have shut down to open actual restaurants. It has yet to really develop in secondary markets like Pittsburgh, but the food truck fad is fading a bit in larger cities.

The area is changing, and with the Hotel Monaco and Embassy Suites opening up across the streets, there will be more foot traffic and thus more take out options in the immediate vicinity. I don't think the park is sterile at all anymore... numerous fountains, waterfall, new extensive plantings, hot office worker chicks, etc. I like it.

I'm a big fan of Mellon Square. I don't think it was ever sterile but can see how some might. Maybe a better descriptor is "formal", which Mellon Square is and Market Square is not. I understand that the neighborhood is changing, but apart from the food window at the Monaco, how will the two new hotels change the dynamic? Lack of people in Mellon Square was never the problem but, rather---at least to me---no place to get lunch. Food trucks can be a quick fix that can just as quickly be removed if they don't work out. But you are probably right that the Omni would object to some trucks parked across the street. The High Line Hotel here actually recruits food trucks...

While I can't comment on the trend in food trucks in Pittsburgh, I see no evidence that they are disappearing in New York. There seem to be more and more.

[BrianTH]

I don't know what sort of deal the City has with the Omni regarding use of the parking lanes along William Penn. I wouldn't advocate breaking such a deal, but if it is within the City's discretion, I wouldn't really care if the hotel objected. Which they may or may not--there are already food carts there and generally people who don't operate competing food businesses don't seem to have a big problem with food trucks, hence why they can do it in Dayton despite there being a bunch of well-heeled businesses surrounding Courthouse Square.

If it can't be done for some reason on William Penn, on Oliver I would look at closing the east-bound lane approximately between the curb cuts for the loading docks (the curb cuts are either way down near Smithfield or at William Penn) for the designated hours. That way people could still enter or exit the garage, although it would be a one-way street during those times. That is actually an oversize lane, so it should provide plenty of space.

Of course if you don't like food trucks to begin with, none of this is appealing. Personally, I think they still have a role to play in precisely this sort of situation.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

There was fatal food truck explosion in Philly recently.

Incidentally, Fatal Food Explosion is a great name for a food truck business.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Off the top of my head, Comcast, Chevron, Bank of America, Duke Energy, Devon Energy, Goldman Sachs....

all have built those corporate behemoths very recently and more are planned.

A "non-profit" like UPMC or Highmark is not going to build its own HQ tower. Unless they willingly give up their non-profit status... ha!

1. Comcast tower seems kind of like Ed Rendell's pet project to leave a mark on the Philly skyline while he was there aided with $30 million, I believe, in tax payer money for a company that is already rolling in money as evidenced by their massive new supertall project of 1,000+ ft.

2. Devon Energy seems like a total ego skyscraper. I love the building; Hate how out of proportion it is to the OKC skyline though. (would look great in Pittsburgh, by the way ) I mean, WHO needs to build so vertical in Oklahoma?!? They have tons of land.

3. Bank of America & Duke Energy (Wachovia): There is an excellent news story about how those two huge financial companies competed against each other similar to the arms race of the US & USSR in the cold war. Total penis rivalry on those two towers.


*Come to think of it, pretty much all skyscrapers that stand out as EXTRA tall seem to do so not out of lack of land necessity but out of a certain egotism

4. Goldman Sachs: they of all companies could've built the tallest building in the world for downtown NY. Instead, they built wide and squat to not stand out:

[chiaroscuro]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I feel certain that at some point Pittsburgh will get at least 1 or 2 LARGE apartment towers, like 400+ feet that are so common in other cities like San Diego, Miami, Seattle, Vancouver, Toronto, etc.

I think a few 20-30 floor residential buildings were in RiverParc's plan.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

1. Comcast tower seems kind of like Ed Rendell's pet project to leave a mark on the Philly skyline while he was there aided with $30 million, I believe, in tax payer money for a company that is already rolling in money as evidenced by their massive new supertall project of 1,000+ ft.

2. Devon Energy seems like a total ego skyscraper. I love the building; Hate how out of proportion it is to the OKC skyline though. (would look great in Pittsburgh, by the way ) I mean, WHO needs to build so vertical in Oklahoma?!? They have tons of land.

3. Bank of America & Duke Energy (Wachovia): There is an excellent news story about how those two huge financial companies competed against each other similar to the arms race of the US & USSR in the cold war. Total penis rivalry on those two towers.


*Come to think of it, pretty much all skyscrapers that stand out as EXTRA tall seem to do so not out of lack of land necessity but out of a certain egotism

4. Goldman Sachs: they of all companies could've built the tallest building in the world for downtown NY. Instead, they built wide and squat to not stand out:

Well yeah, of course there are going to be backstories behind any major real estate dev project. But the fact is that these recent examples got built or are being built in the case of chevron. And... Goldman Sachs seems to have gotten things backwards when you look at their tower across the Hudson. Also that wide and squat Goldman tower would be the 2nd tallest in Pittsburgh.

And haven't skyscrapers always been pretty much akin to a big and fancy penis battle?