PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Philly-Drew]

Aaamazarite and GarCastle, thanks for the recent awesome pics!

[bucks native]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/travel/bright-passages-along-the-northeast-corridor.html

[McBane]

Originally Posted by josef

^ Dear god, do this people. Make noise about what you feel is important.

Among my ideas (I kept mine "realistic"):

- Since they are moving to an electronic payment system, get rid of regional rail zones as it encourages people to drive to the closest lower zone station to their house, rather than simply the closest train station, which is stupid and makes parking at these stations more difficult. Rather, each station should have its own price based on distance from CC.

- Make Temple U a stop on the Broad St express trains. It's silly it's not.

- I don't make any assumptions. So I needed to add this idea: add payment vending machines everywhere! Right now there are no vending machines at the Wissahickon Trans Center (10 buses stop here!) or 15th and JFK (at least 10 buses stop here!). They should be available at ALL subway and ALL rail stations and major bus stops.

- Bus stops at major intersections as well as all transfer centers (Olney, Wissahickon, etc.) should have bus shelters and real time alert notifications.

- Extend subway to the Navy Yard. Even if they can't afford to do it, I stressed, plan it out; that way, when the next "stimulus" occurs, it will be a "shovel ready" project ready to go. You never know when that money is going to be there.

I didn't mention it but I saw someone else did and I wholeheartedly agree. Having our regional rail run every 30 minutes during rush hour is a disgrace. The entire system actually is a disgrace. Expensive, frequently late, slow, and extremely shitty headways.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

Here is what i just sent in a quick incoherent ramble


To whom it may concern:


All Subway lines -- Headways--10 minutes outside of rush hour should be cut to every 5 minutes and 20minutes!! after midnight is unacceptable bring down to 5-6x per hour. This new program is a success let’s add to its popularity by making it permanent and more convenient.

Regional Rail -- More frequent service. 1x per hour on weekend is a disgrace for a city of our size. Run it more frequently 3x per hour and it becomes a real option resulting in ridership increases.
For stations inside the city limits there should be subway like headways: 6x per hour during workday and min 3x per hour other. Create crossovers at city limits to allow trains to head back in other direction.

In Center City Buses should only stop every 2 or 3 blocks. There is no need to stop every corner. It slows everything down and makes traffic much worse. If you want to get off on 15th and Walnut and the bus on stops on 16th it won’t kill anyone to walk an additional block. They are already doing a lot of walking if they use SEPTA in the first place!

Same for the trolleys on Baltimore Ave. There is no need to stop every corner. The maps should be updated with dedicated stops every 5 blocks once it comes out of the tunnel. Then no one is more than 2.5 blocks from a desired destination. Again the added speed and reduced traffic are a welcome convenience for this slight change.


On a infrastructure related note we need at least 2 more subway lines and probably four. I wish someone would take charge and work on a practical 20 year plan that utilizes public private partnerships and federal funding.

1) We need a central circulator .

2) New line running up front all the way to Alleghany. Allegheny to Fairmount Park and back down 33rd to the museum and then down the parkway back to Broad

A new line up 7th from Pattison to Allegheny. Looping underneath Pattison to broad and back up. Across Allegheny to Broad and back down

A new line up 21st from Pattison to Allegheny. Looping underneath Pattison to broad and back up. Across Allegheny to Broad and back down

This should not be all that difficult to achieve over the next 20 years using a PPP structure

Are these regional rail headways actually possible though? I feel like the system already has capacity issues at rush hour. You might have to add a lot of new track to the system to get headways that are any more frequent than already provided. Same issue with the new subways running as loops utilizing Broad. If all the trains are running under Broad it would be difficult to have frequent headways on all the lines.

[josef]

Awesome input people! Thanks for sharing. I don't know what the technical feasibility is of really any suggestion, but I feel like the chances are few to express interest in an improvement directly to them, so it's great to let them know what you're thinking. I'll be interested to see what they do with these.

[Philly-Drew]

Hello, and thank you for listening to my ideas to improve SEPTA. There are many things SEPTA can do to better serve Philadelphia's population. Increasing the frequency of the trains is a big one. In addition, the three that I've listed below would have a dramatic impact on increasing ridership.

Extending the rails

To drastically increase ridership, some new areas within the city itself need to be served by rail.
1) Extend the Broad street line to the navy yard to provide service to a growing business space.
2) Extend the Market Frankford El up into Northeast Philadelphia. This would hugely impact ridership by providing rail service to a very large part of the city's population.
3) Work with PATCO to extend the PATCO rail line into University City.

Thank you,

[skyscraper]

Shouldn't all these SEPTA suggestions go in the Transportation forum?

[bucks native]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

Shouldn't all these SEPTA suggestions go in the Transportation forum?

Technically, yes, but they would be lost there. This is important and having it here as well as there is more likely to generate responses to SEPTA.

I have a question or two:

Which is cheaper to build and operate - and therefore more a likely project in a cost-conscious environment - a subway or a light rail/trolley/streetcar line?

Having lived in Portland, OR, and New Orleans I'm partial to surface rails. They are clean and safe; everyone uses them. Not so with subways, in my experience.

My suggestions to SEPTA re extensions are for surface rails, where feasible.

And suggestions for PATCO should be sent to PATCO; which isn't SEPTA.

[bucks native]

OH! And Pope Francis will visit the Quaker City of Brotherly Love in SEP2015. Better powerwash the cathedral basilica on the Parkway. And shine some light on it.

In contrast, the Mormon Temple should be up and blindingly (ever seen one at night - they shine - by design) illuminated by then.

[ILovePhilly]

Originally Posted by bucks native

OH! And Pope Francis will visit the Quaker City of Brotherly Love in SEP2015. Better powerwash the cathedral basilica on the Parkway. And shine some light on it.

In contrast, the Mormon Temple should be up and blindingly (ever seen one at night - they shine - by design) illuminated by then.

Rent your hotel rooms now, folks. Or, in my case, get ready rent out your couch to some visiting Catholics! Early estimates for mass on the parkway are 2-3 million.

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by shadowbat2

When you say Penn Tower do you mean the whole thing, or just the garage?

I can clearly see the garage being closed off and demod once the new underground garage is complete past CHOP's south campus within that 10-12 month timeframe.

But from what I understand, they cant empty Penn Tower yet because they need to find a new home for all the facilities that are housed there. I'm sure GarCastle can explain it much better, but I remember him saying the CAM complex still can't fit everything hence this proposal above the new garage that was mentioned before.

I also read about Penn signing leases in Centre Square so maybe that's part of the "empty out" process?

^Looking at this, it does appear that the project could be built in phases, seeing that the building divides into two towers. Meaning the section at the rear could (theoretically) be built where the Penn Tower garage is and the front built later after Penn Tower itself is demolished....

GarCastle, you know what's up with that?

Also is that a footbridge to U-City station I see?

Nope, the whole tower and not just the garage. The new plans as laid out, with a new street grid is about 90% a go. The only thing that is still being worked out is the dispute between Penn and Chop regarding the new traffic patterns. Approx 12 months to Penn Tower is closed out.

[Flyers2001]

Delete, duplicate. Weather is awesome today!

[br323206]

Originally Posted by bucks native

Technically, yes, but they would be lost there. This is important and having it here as well as there is more likely to generate responses to SEPTA.

I have a question or two:

Which is cheaper to build and operate - and therefore more a likely project in a cost-conscious environment - a subway or a light rail/trolley/streetcar line?

Having lived in Portland, OR, and New Orleans I'm partial to surface rails. They are clean and safe; everyone uses them. Not so with subways, in my experience.

My suggestions to SEPTA re extensions are for surface rails, where feasible.

And suggestions for PATCO should be sent to PATCO; which isn't SEPTA.

Light rail is cheaper if you're starting from scratch but in cases where the infrastructure already exists it may be cheaper to convert. For example, you could convert the Manayunk/Norristown RR line into a rapid transit heavy rail line (above ground obviously) easier than you could build a new light rail line into the Northwest. We already have rails everywhere, so utilizing what we have is a good idea.

[sayitaintso]

Originally Posted by br323206

Are these regional rail headways actually possible though? I feel like the system already has capacity issues at rush hour. You might have to add a lot of new track to the system to get headways that are any more frequent than already provided. Same issue with the new subways running as loops utilizing Broad. If all the trains are running under Broad it would be difficult to have frequent headways on all the lines.

I really don't know but he squeaky wheel gets the oil . I we don't make noise they'll never listen

[tsarstruck]

Feel free to send whatever you want, but you are all really off base on what Septa is asking for. This is for the 2016 plan and is aimed at minor alterations or additions for routes, not major infrastructure improvements. "We invite you to submit ideas related to SEPTA route changes or additions. These submissions will be included in our evaluation process for possible changes for Fiscal Year 2016. Project implementation would be contingent upon available funding." - http://www.septa.org/notice/asp/submissions-asp-2016.html

All the things you're talking about are not going to be a part of Septa's LONG RANGE plans. If you want any possibility of Septa listening to you, make minor service changes not major ones. My two:

Split up the Route 23 bus into two routes, which improve on time performance and allow Septa to better tailor lead times during peak service. It's the longest route in Septa's system, and NO ONE is traveling from Germantown to South Philly on it. Also, it would allow them to consider bringing back trolley service where it makes *some* sense (the Germantown to North Philly section of the route) and not where it makes none (the North Philly to South Philly section).

Eliminate the 47M, which is redundant with the 23 and 47. Allocate those buses to those two routes. Also opens up the possibility of making the Italian Market pedestrian only on weekends.

[Baconboy007]

^^^ that makes me feel better about only making suggestions on the 27 and the 9. I thought maybe I wasn't thinking big enough.

[PhillySteaks]

Blumenfeld making more moves along North Broad. Philadelphia Met received a scrub down similiar to that of the Divine Lorraine. Still believe this corridor is a handful of years out. Francisville gets better by the year.

I played basketball at St.Joes on Girard as a kid and I don't even recognize most of Fairmount/Brewerytown/Francisville anymore. It's actually quite diverse on the west end. Getting Drexel to move to the area would probably be the jackpot, but I would assume probability is low considering they moved to the tastykake factory not too long ago and I would assume there is still some decent term left on the lease.

http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/0...ool-is-moving-forward-on-north-broad.php

http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/0...tering-facility-be-coming-to-the-met.php

[AbortedWalrus]

Originally Posted by PhillySteaks

Blumenfeld making more moves along North Broad. Philadelphia Met received a scrub down similiar to that of the Divine Lorraine. Still believe this corridor is a handful of years out. Francisville gets better by the year.

I played basketball at St.Joes on Girard as a kid and I don't even recognize most of Fairmount/Brewerytown/Francisville anymore. It's actually quite diverse on the west end. Getting Drexel to move to the area would probably be the jackpot, but I would assume probability is low considering they moved to the tastykake factory not too long ago and I would assume there is still some decent term left on the lease.

http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/0...ool-is-moving-forward-on-north-broad.php

http://philly.curbed.com/archives/2014/0...tering-facility-be-coming-to-the-met.php

I think Fairmount Ave will have complete infill to Broad within as soon as 3 years. In fact there is so much in planning that it almost seems certain. The big question is if the infill can attract businesses to the vacant commercial spaces. The even bigger question is when/if Ridge Ave can follow in the footsteps.

[PhiLaw]

Looks like 205 Race St will finally get built:

http://www.ocfrealty.com/naked-philly/old-city/looks-like-205-race-will-finally-get-built

[PhillySteaks]

Originally Posted by AbortedWalrus

I think Fairmount Ave will have complete infill to Broad within as soon as 3 years. In fact there is so much in planning that it almost seems certain. The big question is if the infill can attract businesses to the vacant commercial spaces. The even bigger question is when/if Ridge Ave can follow in the footsteps.

I was referring to the North Broad corridor. Fairmount Ave will be fine, I agree soon enough. Would love to see retail along that stretch. Bars/restaurants/shopping. Give the area a real flare and a concentrated commercial space. North Broad's inclusion would be the east wall of the neighborhood. Anything between Fairmount & Girard will follow. It will begin west and move east, it'll just take some time. The problem with the lack of commercial space in the area is because of the demographics. Walk around, there are still plenty of near poverty line families within the area that can't support businesses. However I do believe that will slowly but surely change. There are still even a handful of unsafe blocks south of Fairmount near 16th. Believe there was a murder there not too long ago. PHA has a couple of converted row homes in that section.

Although I love the spring garden neighborhood, the bars/restaurants don't get too much of a draw from people in the city that don't already live in the neighborhood. If you want to build a commercial base you need not only the neighborhood support, but something that will draw residents of other philly neighborhoods, as well as suburbs, to the area.

Success plan would equate to seeing rising incomes in the 19130 zip code, as well as a successful merchants association to bring in unique talent for local shops.