Calgary Roads

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Might have something to do with there being more room inside homes due to increased floor space and decreased family size, not solely technology. I imagine in the 60s to be alone the best option was to go outside.

I'd say it has more to do with having multiple TVs, ipads, computers and a million other distractions that weren't around 20 years ago.

[bigcanuck]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I think you are missing the point. Kids don't play outside anymore and it has very little to do with the built form of the area they are in and everything to do with TV, video games and neurotic parents. When I was a kid I pretty much lived outdoors, my parents had to force me to come inside, now it seems to be the opposite, and the built form is the same now as it was then.

As someone who has kids, the above is incorrect.

[sync]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

As someone who has kids, the above is incorrect.

well you are not in the majority.

my brother and sister (3 kids each) don't let them (the kids) cross the (suburban) street.

meanwhile the crime rate keeps dropping.

perception versus reality.

[bigcanuck]

Originally Posted by sync

well you are not in the majority.

my brother and sister (3 kids each) don't let them (the kids) cross the (suburban) street.

meanwhile the crime rate keeps dropping.

perception versus reality.

I'm not in the majority because I have kids? Or because the kids in our neighbourhood play outside still? Because your brother and sister don't let their kids cross the street, does that make them the majority?

Careful about including crime rates - increased/decreased crime rates doesn't affect the safety of a child playing at a playground or crossing the street.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

I'm not in the majority because I have kids? Or because the kids in our neighbourhood play outside still? Because your brother and sister don't let their kids cross the street, does that make them the majority?

Personally I use my eyes. 30 years ago, playgrounds were full of kids from sunup to sundown. Today, I can walk by 3 or 4 in an evening walk, and I'm lucky if I see one occupied. And it's either by kids with their parents, or teenagers. I'm just plain gobsmacked at how many people don't think a child of 10 is capable of going across the street to play in the playground, on their own or with friends.

What you as an individual do has got nothing to do with "majority" (although I'm pretty sure the implication was that if you let your kids play outside, you're not in the majority). I just look at how few children are outside playing, in a city with the largest baby boom in Canadian history since the 1950s. And I'm not just being a grumpy anecdote - I'm indirectly doing part of the Calgary Corporate Challenge this summer. We've been out walking pretty much every single night since May. You'd think I lived in a senior's complex, with how few kids you see in a given hour.

Careful about including crime rates - increased/decreased crime rates doesn't affect the safety of a child playing at a playground or crossing the street.

According to most parents I talk to, they do not let their kids play outside unsupervised because of fear of abduction, assault, or other violent crimes. Very few bring up traffic safety. And those that do acknowledge that our streets are probably safer than in the past, what with all the miracle 30km/h zones and such. They just don't "feel safe". Also, our playgrounds are light-years safer than they used to be, what with padding everywhere, that recycled rubber "sand", and just better overall safety standards.

So as a parent, I'd be curious what other kind of "safety" issue would prevent you from letting your kids play outside (if you were the type to do so).

[sync]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

I'm not in the majority because I have kids? Or because the kids in our neighbourhood play outside still? Because your brother and sister don't let their kids cross the street, does that make them the majority?

Careful about including crime rates - increased/decreased crime rates doesn't affect the safety of a child playing at a playground or crossing the street.

look, you said kids do play outside and i countered with well, no, not all of them do.

as for majority we'd need a poll to be sure i guess.

and i stand by my statement that a lot of parents have a perception of the dangers of modern society that does not jive with the reality of the statistics they are presented with.

at least the parents i know do.

[Calgarian]

There is a fantastic documentary on this called "scared of my shadow", puts everything into perspective fairly well.

[sync]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

There is a fantastic documentary on this called "scared of my shadow", puts everything into perspective fairly well.

netflix?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

go to limits of 40 kph instead everywhere. Easier to enforce, less confusing.

If you're confused by consolidated school and playground zones, you shouldn't be driving.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by suburbia

If you're confused by consolidated school and playground zones, you shouldn't be driving.

If your children are confused by looking both ways before crossing the street, you shouldn't be breeding.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by bigcanuck

I'm not in the majority because I have kids? Or because the kids in our neighbourhood play outside still? Because your brother and sister don't let their kids cross the street, does that make them the majority?

I'm with bigcanuck. Unfortunately there is a huge over representation on this forum of monkey whackers without families of their own (or at best, married but with no kids).

We have plenty of kids playing outside in the parks in our area also.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by sync

netflix?

I think I saw it on the documentary channel (part of CBC), not sure if it's on netflix or not.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

I think I saw it on the documentary channel (part of CBC), not sure if it's on netflix or not.

It was probably made by childless people. Their opinion is basically worthless anyway. They'll never understand what it's like.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by freeweed

It was probably made by childless people. Their opinion is basically worthless anyway. They'll never understand what it's like.

• Video Link

[simster3]

Question about paving. Is there anyway to see the future paving schedule, maybe even next years. My road and all the roads in Killarney (and probably all of the southern innercity) are in terrible shape due to all the infill action and I am wondering if I can find out when they plan to pave in an area. I found a schedule for this year but I'm not sure if they include side street or non-artery roads on that site. Anyone have some insight?

[fusili]

Freeweed, I imagine you might be in a "declining" neighbourhood. Perhaps all the kids have grown up?

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by fusili

Freeweed, I imagine you might be in a "declining" neighbourhood. Perhaps all the kids have grown up?

While I'm sure neighbourhoods can be a factor (the CBC article touches on this), this is actually a very well documented phenomenon all across the country.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/why-the-kids-dont-play-any-more/article15446614/
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/la...to-hurt-children-s-development-1.2497526

[93JC]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

And mindless drivers, amazing how many times I've been nearly clipped when I have the right of way. IMO when you drive a vehicle you are responsible for any interaction between you and more vulnerable road users. Do I think pedestrians, etc. should be given complete prevalence? No but if a car is crossing a crosswalk the pedestrian in the crosswalk has the right of way, time to start making people understand that. I think we need to start raising crosswalks to the height of the sidewalks, to better delineate who has the right of way.

When you are driving a vehicle you are responsible for your interaction between you and the other users of the road, true, but it's also true for pedestrians. That's what freeweed was speaking to when he spoke of "mindless pedestrians".

For example, I was driving Monday and I cut off a pair of pedestrians in a crosswalk. Did they have the right of way? Yes, technically. So what was I doing in the crosswalk?

I was making a right turn at a red light, and the two pedestrians were standing at the corner to my right. Neither one was looking at me, and neither one was looking in the direction they were (eventually) crossing. I stopped behind the stop line, I watched them, I saw a break in vehicular traffic, and being that neither pedestrian looked like they were going to cross the street I decided to go. They turned and stepped off the curb when I was already halfway through the crosswalk. I wasn't going very fast so I stopped very quickly. No harm done. Still, they didn't even know I was there until I'd already come to a stop. Nothing about their body language suggested they were going to cross. Neither signalled their intent. Neither was watching me. They blindly stepped off the curb and presumed I would stopped. Should I have waited longer? Maybe. It was still stupid behaviour on their part.

Pedestrians have a responsibility to watch where they're going and to observe vehicular traffic just as much as a car has the responsibility to watch for pedestrians. It's a two-way street (no pun intended). If you're being nearly clipped at intersections maybe you should re-evaluate your own behaviour as a pedestrian.

If anything I have found drivers are TOO courteous to pedestrians and will stop to let people jaywalk. Marda Loop is terrible for it.

I have been nearly hit a couple times, ever. Both times were drivers who passed illegally on the right after the car in front of them had stopped for me. Is that bad? Yes. Do we need to have enormous speed humps for crosswalks? No, that's just ridiculous.


As for playground and school zones, I'm all for the times being synchronized. I'm glad the subjective "1 hr after sunset" malarkey is over with. 7 am to 9 pm seems excessive though. While we're going to the trouble of changing the times we should re-evaluate where the zones are placed too. Some are blatant excuses to "calm traffic", at the behest of helicopter parents who bemoan "Won't somebody please think of the children??" I'm sure, where traffic does not need to be 'calmed'.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by 93JC

When you are driving a vehicle you are responsible for your interaction between you and the other users of the road, true, but it's also true for pedestrians. That's what freeweed was speaking to when he spoke of "mindless pedestrians".

For example, I was driving Monday and I cut off a pair of pedestrians in a crosswalk. Did they have the right of way? Yes, technically. So what was I doing in the crosswalk?

I was making a right turn at a red light, and the two pedestrians were standing at the corner to my right. Neither one was looking at me, and neither one was looking in the direction they were (eventually) crossing. I stopped behind the stop line, I watched them, I saw a break in vehicular traffic, and being that neither pedestrian looked like they were going to cross the street I decided to go. They turned and stepped off the curb when I was already halfway through the crosswalk. I wasn't going very fast so I stopped very quickly. No harm done. Still, they didn't even know I was there until I'd already come to a stop. Nothing about their body language suggested they were going to cross. Neither signalled their intent. Neither was watching me. They blindly stepped off the curb and presumed I would stopped. Should I have waited longer? Maybe. It was still stupid behaviour on their part.

Pedestrians have a responsibility to watch where they're going and to observe vehicular traffic just as much as a car has the responsibility to watch for pedestrians. It's a two-way street (no pun intended). If you're being nearly clipped at intersections maybe you should re-evaluate your own behaviour as a pedestrian.

If anything I have found drivers are TOO courteous to pedestrians and will stop to let people jaywalk. Marda Loop is terrible for it.

I have been nearly hit a couple times, ever. Both times were drivers who passed illegally on the right after the car in front of them had stopped for me. Is that bad? Yes. Do we need to have enormous speed humps for crosswalks? No, that's just ridiculous.

As for playground and school zones, I'm all for the times being synchronized. I'm glad the subjective "1 hr after sunset" malarkey is over with. 7 am to 9 pm seems excessive though. While we're going to the trouble of changing the times we should re-evaluate where the zones are placed too. Some are blatant excuses to "calm traffic", at the behest of helicopter parents who bemoan "Won't somebody please think of the children??" I'm sure, where traffic does not need to be 'calmed'.

I don't disagree that pedestrians need to pay more attention

[Devils Advocate]

Is your 30 seconds is worth a life to you? Here's the issue, you (as a general term) use my community has a place to pass through twice a day, your car detracts from my community, you do not interact with my community you simply drive through. Why is it that I have to sacrifice my safety (a 50km/h car is fatal for the pedestrian nearly 50% of the time) and my enjoyment of my community because you need to save 30 seconds on your drive? This happened less than a block from my house on a narrow 50 km/h road, if there is enough energy in that collision to flip a car, don't you think it's more than enough to kill someone (adult or child)?

[/Devils Advocate]

I don't believe a speed limit change will do anything for either side of the debate, it's unlikely to dramatically affect anyones travel time and it's even less likely to decrease the risk to other users of the roadway. IMO this is where street design plays a much larger factor than a number on a sign.

Further, I find it frustrating that when drivers cause incidents (there are no accidents, everything has a root cause or causes) they get little more than a ticket, do we really think that we are going to change behaviour patterns by a few dollars? One only needs to consider the parking ticket as an example, due to the low value of it, it has little deterrent value for most people, same with the distracted driving tickets. We need to reframe how people see risk, we need to understand how small our area of focus is, try this some time place two business cards beside each other (or any items of similar size with writing on them) focus on one and attempt to determine what is on the other. Then consider what happens when you are driving and focus on one thing on the road at 50km/h and consider what could happen outside your area of focus, then consider the same thing at 100km/h.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Personally I use my eyes. 30 years ago, playgrounds were full of kids from sunup to sundown. Today, I can walk by 3 or 4 in an evening walk, and I'm lucky if I see one occupied.

Maybe it's because there's been reports of some creepy guy in Tevas and white socks hanging around the playgrounds on a nightly basis.