DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Where exactly is Phase II going? I haven't done any research on this one. I'm assuming it's going to be 5-stories, blah blah blah, just like the first one. Anyways, thanks for the heads up. I'll have to go check it out.

Definitely not at 29th, I was just there today and its still a field of weeds with no construction fence. Maybe to the south or west of the existing apartment?

Go stop in the Industry Denver building if you are up that way, pretty awesome interior space in that one.

[TakeFive]

Given the resurgence of cities, 5 cities have been noted for their urban redevelopment by Fortune.
Should I dispense with the suspense? Nah, no spoilers from me. But you can see the video/list right HERE.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Where exactly is Phase II going? I haven't done any research on this one. I'm assuming it's going to be 5-stories, blah blah blah, just like the first one. Anyways, thanks for the heads up. I'll have to go check it out.

I was under the impression that phase two was going to be right next to phase one (not trying to sound like a smart ass). The blueprint were posted here a while back. Five stories like the first one. Hopefully the architecture is different enough. A lot of new apartments proposed for RiNo.

[seventwenty]

Bunt, move here!

Real Estate: The Latest Stapleton Development

Originally Posted by 5280

[T]he real estate company, Forest City Enterprises, has announced the latest in the Stapleton building boom: a second neighborhood north of I-70 called Willow Park East.

The 770 homes in Willow Park East will range from 1,000 to more than 3,500 square feet with prices between about $150,000 and $800,000. Amenities will include energy-efficient design, porches, patios, rooftop decks, and a broad mix of architectural styles. The neighborhood is about 200 acres northeast of Conservatory Green, another somewhat-recent addition to the Stapleton portfolio.

[denconyny]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Where exactly is Phase II going? I haven't done any research on this one. I'm assuming it's going to be 5-stories, blah blah blah, just like the first one. Anyways, thanks for the heads up. I'll have to go check it out.

I remember proposal images from back around 2007, and it had some high-rises over in Denargo Market. Maybe sometime soon at least one of these with at least 12 stories or more will break ground eh, rather than all the wonderful 4-5 story buildings.........


DenverInfill


DenverInfill


DenverDevelopment.com


Maybe?

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by Denver

I was under the impression that phase two was going to be right next to phase one (not trying to sound like a smart ass). The blueprint were posted here a while back. Five stories like the first one. Hopefully the architecture is different enough. A lot of new apartments proposed for RiNo.

It is. Take a look at Ken's residential development map. It's on the southern portion of the site.

[DownhomeDenver]

Off of Ken's map the project for Downing Flats:

http://www.swdevgroup.com/projectpage-3-1/

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

It is. Take a look at Ken's residential development map. It's on the southern portion of the site.

I did. I see it.

Hope this is a go then. I assume it's the same original owner/developer. I know they went through a lot of pain to assemble the parcel and then the Great Recession hit.

[DownhomeDenver]

I noticed on Ken's map that 1306 Speer Blvd has a new dot. I looked at the Denver Major Projects list and it's described as "Speer Tower". Tower? Really? Yeh right. LOL

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

I noticed on Ken's map that 1306 Speer Blvd has a new dot. I looked at the Denver Major Projects list and it's described as "Speer Tower". Tower? Really? Yeh right. LOL

Won't happen. That parcel is owned by Buzz Geller and the only thing that he's ever developed is a parking lot.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Won't happen. That parcel is owned by Buzz Geller and the only thing that he's ever developed is a parking lot.

Eerrgghhh bla. It may not be a tower and Buzz isn't developing it. But that's all you get from me tonight.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

...the price point needed to continue to fill the downtown projects.

This sort of a statement keeps getting repeated, and honestly, I don’t get it.

I think the average rent could be half what it is now, and if there was demand for new units, someone would build new units. If not – if even a modest dip in rents would halt new development in Denver - then how the hell is anything getting built in Texas? For chrissakes, that little Forbes video you showed us hails Des Moines, IA as some kind of mecca of urban development. How the hell does anything get built in Des Moines? The only substantial difference in terms of development costs between Denver and Des Moines, or anywhere else in the U.S., is land values, and the cost of land would have to be proportionately small compared to the cost of labor, equipment and materials. Right?

The reason they’re charging two grand for a one bedroom in some of these new developments is because they think they can get away with it (which they probably can) – not because that’s what they have to charge in order to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, nothing gets built in Des Moines, or Omaha, or Texas. Right?

That’s just the way my gut feels about it. I see notoriously cheap cities like Panama City building literally hundreds of shiny new skyscrapers and I have to wonder just how much cheaper land and labor is in a country like Panama. Is steel or concrete cheaper in Panama somehow? Are the banks there willing to take much greater risks?

Mind you, I’m not debating anyone here. I guess I’m intentionally displaying my ignorance. If someone with more knowledge on this topic could set me straight, that would be awesome, because I really don’t get it. Why does the rent have to be extremely high in order for us to get a nice brick building? How does anything get built in Louisville, KY order Des Moine, IA?

Disclaimer: I've had four glasses of scotch, even though it's a weekday. The cost of living may have gone up in Panama City since I last read about retirees from the U.S. and Canada flocking there in droves because one could supposedly buy a fancy penthouse on top of a shiny new skyscraper for $100K. I use the word "shiny" too much whilst mentioning skyscrapers. No Oxford commas were used in this post.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

This sort of a statement keeps getting repeated, and honestly, I don’t get it.

I think the average rent could be half what it is now, and if there was demand for new units, someone would build new units. If not – if even a modest dip in rents would halt new development in Denver - then how the hell is anything getting built in Texas? For chrissakes, that little Forbes video you showed us hails Des Moines, IA as some kind of mecca of urban development. How the hell does anything get built in Des Moines? The only substantial difference in terms of development costs between Denver and Des Moines, or anywhere else in the U.S., is land values, and the cost of land would have to be proportionately small compared to the cost of labor, equipment and materials. Right?

The reason they’re charging two grand for a one bedroom in some of these new developments is because they think they can get away with it (which they probably can) – not because that’s what they have to charge in order to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, nothing gets built in Des Moines, or Omaha, or Texas. Right?

That’s just the way my gut feels about it. I see notoriously cheap cities like Panama City building literally hundreds of shiny new skyscrapers and I have to wonder just how much cheaper land and labor is in a country like Panama. Is steel or concrete cheaper in Panama somehow? Are the banks there willing to take much greater risks?

Mind you, I’m not debating anyone here. I guess I’m intentionally displaying my ignorance. If someone with more knowledge on this topic could set me straight, that would be awesome, because I really don’t get it. Why does the rent have to be extremely high in order for us to get a nice brick building? How does anything get built in Louisville, KY order Des Moine, IA?

Disclaimer: I've had four glasses of scotch, even though it's a weekday. The cost of living may have gone up in Panama City since I last read about retirees from the U.S. and Canada flocking there in droves because one could supposedly buy a fancy penthouse on top of a shiny new skyscraper for $100K. I use the word "shiny" too much whilst mentioning skyscrapers. No Oxford commas were used in this post.

Apartments are being built in Denver as fast as they are because those with money can get better than a 10 year bond rate of return on their money.

The stick wall apartments with brackish facades would not be built in Denver if the average rent produced for a 700 square foot 2 bedroom was not $1300 to $1500/month.

Simply not profitable.

I admire your honesty. You appear to care for other people. Don't loose that, despite what the "bastards" do.

[enjo13]

Fun anecdote:

So in the past couple of months I've spent more time outside of Denver than I have actually here. I've been traveling on my own for a big chunk of that, so I've had a lot of chances to strike up conversations with total strangers. Inevitably Denver comes up.

Say what you will about legalizing marijuana, it has the entire country (and world, I'll get to that) talking about us. Denver has always been a place people wanted to visit..someday. Now, basically every single person I talk to is planning a trip.

Surprisingly most of them have no intention of coming here to smoke weed. Instead it seems that they had never really thought much about Denver before. Everyone knew Colorado was obviously amazing, but Denver just didn't have much draw. Apparently seeing our city splashed over TV's across the country once a week has inspired a lot of folks to come check us out. So that's a real positive.

The more interesting thing is that I've met quite a few foreigners as well. If you've been Downtown at all in the last few months you probably have noticed there are quite a few more people, of all races, walking around Denver with cameras around their necks. Apparently we've become quite the trendy place to visit, particularly among two groups:

Australians - For obvious reasons. Seriously every cultural stereotype about those people is true
Scandinavians/Dutch - Apparently our little city has become very popular amongst those people. It makes sense, we probably have more culturally in common with them than any other group of people in the world (including other states). I'm writing this because I just had yet another Mall Ride conversation with a really great family from Finland who are here to checkout Denver and then spend a week camping in the mountains.

They had really great things to say FWIW.

Just wanted to share this (it is 100% anecdotal), as I think this is just another step on our way to becoming that elusive "world class" city we all want. Our reputation as the most relaxed/fun city in the country is beginning to bring a lot of very interesting types into the city. People that even five years ago literally had no idea Denver even existed.

[bcp]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

This sort of a statement keeps getting repeated, and honestly, I don’t get it.

I think the average rent could be half what it is now, and if there was demand for new units, someone would build new units. If not – if even a modest dip in rents would halt new development in Denver - then how the hell is anything getting built in Texas? For chrissakes, that little Forbes video you showed us hails Des Moines, IA as some kind of mecca of urban development. How the hell does anything get built in Des Moines? The only substantial difference in terms of development costs between Denver and Des Moines, or anywhere else in the U.S., is land values, and the cost of land would have to be proportionately small compared to the cost of labor, equipment and materials. Right?

The reason they’re charging two grand for a one bedroom in some of these new developments is because they think they can get away with it (which they probably can) – not because that’s what they have to charge in order to make it worthwhile. Otherwise, nothing gets built in Des Moines, or Omaha, or Texas. Right?

That’s just the way my gut feels about it. I see notoriously cheap cities like Panama City building literally hundreds of shiny new skyscrapers and I have to wonder just how much cheaper land and labor is in a country like Panama. Is steel or concrete cheaper in Panama somehow? Are the banks there willing to take much greater risks?

Mind you, I’m not debating anyone here. I guess I’m intentionally displaying my ignorance. If someone with more knowledge on this topic could set me straight, that would be awesome, because I really don’t get it. Why does the rent have to be extremely high in order for us to get a nice brick building? How does anything get built in Louisville, KY order Des Moine, IA?

Disclaimer: I've had four glasses of scotch, even though it's a weekday. The cost of living may have gone up in Panama City since I last read about retirees from the U.S. and Canada flocking there in droves because one could supposedly buy a fancy penthouse on top of a shiny new skyscraper for $100K. I use the word "shiny" too much whilst mentioning skyscrapers. No Oxford commas were used in this post.

If we had awards, that would be the best, scotch-influenced post of the year. That said, we should have awards!

[denconyny]

Originally Posted by enjo13

Surprisingly most of them have no intention of coming here to smoke weed.

Uh huh........

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

Apartments are being built in Denver as fast as they are because those with money can get better than a 10 year bond rate of return on their money.

The stick wall apartments with brackish facades would not be built in Denver if the average rent produced for a 700 square foot 2 bedroom was not $1300 to $1500/month.

Simply not profitable.

I admire your honesty. You appear to care for other people. Don't loose that, despite what the "bastards" do.

I gotta go with Sam Hill on this one...they are charging $2.50+/sf because they can, not because that is what it requires to be more profitable than sitting on a 10 year bond. Frankly, I have no idea how young people afford to live in Denver and if rental prices in 2008 were what they are now there is no way in hell I would have moved here.

[RyanD]

^ Totally true. Developers can go sub $2/sf and be fine. They charge it because they can, and I've heard it straight from them. Simple supply and demand. No supply? High demand? Yep. Young people and affordability? Rich parents, or you better like roommates!

Here's a neat little pano. I toured AMLI Riverfront (post coming soon) and was able to get this off the top of the garage. We need 5 more 'Platforms' on this skyline!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

This sort of a statement keeps getting repeated, and honestly, I don’t get it.

Sam... Great comment and questions. Totally sensible and well reasoned.
Some things just can't be explained.
/sigh

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by bcp

If we had awards, that would be the best, scotch-influenced post of the year. That said, we should have awards!

Oh darn. I posted before I saw this. Agreed.