PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II - Page 452

Private D · #**9021** Posted **Jul 19, 2014, 6:00 PM**

^ Architects can certainly design something like that, we just can't realistically build something like that anymore without it looking terribly cheap, given the low-quality of materials that would likely have to be used.

We do not have artisan laborers anymore. Quality of that level would not come cheap these days -- the cost would be astronomical when you added it all up.

photoLith · #**9022** Posted **Jul 19, 2014, 6:26 PM**

I know the materials cost too much but architects and developers can still make things that are at least cohesive and symmetrical.

Evergrey · #**9023** Posted **Jul 19, 2014, 9:09 PM**

http://triblive.com/news/editorspicks/6451106-74/downtown-pittsburgh-tower#axzz37ukzKj13

Quote:

Downtown residents, developers enjoy romance with rooftops

Keith Hodan | TRIB TOTAL MEDIA
Developer Todd Palacic points out landmarks from the eighth-floor deck area of the Lando Lofts, Downtown, Thursday, July 17, 2014.

Keith Hodan | TRIB TOTAL MEDIA
Lifeguard Angela Barringer talks with a resident at the Stanwix Tower Apartments, Downtown, Thursday, July 17, 2014.

By Aaron Aupperlee
Friday, July 18, 2014, 10:37 p.m.
Updated 17 hours ago

From atop the Lando Building at Penn Avenue and Ninth Street, Todd Palacic can see PNC Park, kayaks on the Allegheny River, construction work on The Tower at PNC Plaza and glimpses of the shimmering glass of PPG Place.

Palacic, who is developing the seven-story structure into 27 apartments and building a deck on its roof, foresees tenants throwing parties, watching fireworks and lounging amid Pittsburgh's skyline.

“People who live Downtown want to show off, and a deck allows them to show off,” Palacic, a developer at Penn Avenue Renaissance, said as he leaned over the deck railing to look out over the river. “A lot of first kisses will happen up here on this deck. I guarantee it.”

As more people move Downtown — the population jumped 10.5 percent in the past three years, reaching more than 7,500, according to the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership — residents are claiming rooftops as social spaces to dine, drink, relax and take in sights. Restaurants have opened rooftop bars and seating areas. Nearly 10 apartment complexes boast roof patios and lounges, and new developments almost all have rooftop plans.

“It's just a continuation of the evolution of Downtown,” said Jeremy Waldrup, president and CEO of the Pittsburgh Downtown Partnership, whose members include many of Downtown's largest property managers, banks, hotels, developers and nonprofits. “You have folks who want to be outside. They want to enjoy views that you're not going to see sitting in between four walls.”

...

East Edge · #**9024** Posted **Jul 20, 2014, 3:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Again, I'm all for different colors and textures. However, when you combine a variety of colors and textures with cheap materials... the result is almost always something that seems very out of place in a true urban environment to me... like something that better belongs in one of those new "walkable" suburban shopping center developments. I'm expecting these:

to have a megaplex movie theater across the street echoing the garish colors and patterns.

If this:

was the actual built result, then no problem at all.

However, architects need to practice with the solid understanding of budget constraints and context (I agree fully with what Evergrey said regarding context in the neighborhood) and realize that their attempts at creativity will most likely end up looking like —, given the materials that will actually be used. Designing something great within those financial and contextual constraints is what good architecture should be about in developments like these.

Yeah this blows...very amateur finish selecting. I applaud them wanting to do something vibrant and different but really?

Minivan Werner · #**9025** Posted **Jul 20, 2014, 6:15 PM**

It looks like something you'd see in Sao Paulo.

BrianTH · #**9026** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 11:14 AM**

Interesting article about the plans for revitalizing Smithfield and Wood, in part to capture spillover from Market Square (which does not have enough space to accommodate all the ground-floor establishments that would like to locate there):

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2014/07/21/Planners-developers/stories/201407200210

As I noted in the comments, it is too bad Mellon Square has such a "look but don't touch" quality to it. In fact, I'd love to just walk through it sometimes on the way to or from my bus stop, but even that is difficult with the way it is laid out. And it looks to me like it is in fact underutilized, particularly in comparison to the revamped Market Square.

So my thinking is that it would be great if it was designated as an official food truck zone, which could transform it into a destination at least during lunch (and maybe some late evenings and weekends as well). To really make that work, I'd love to see the closure of much of the adjacent block of Oliver each midday. Combine trucks along there with maybe some more around the corner on William Penn Place, and I think you could have something really cool. And as noted, I think you could also look to do that on some evenings and weekends as well, particularly if Smithfield starts to take off as planned. And in fact it could even become a later-evening hot spot if done well.

Interestingly, this picture almost graphically demonstrates the concept:

You can actually see the people spilling out from the food trucks on William Penn Place--I think that was likely taken during the rededication ceremony, but I believe that should be a daily occurrence, and expanded if possible.

BrianTH · #**9027** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 12:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

Aside: It appears on the Bakery Square Cam http://bakerysquare.no-ip.biz:8080/view/viewer_index.shtml?id=355 and in person that only half of the office building is being constructed in a half and half way. This seems a little peculiar, or were the plans changed from what we saw earlier?

The other half is starting to go up.

Evergrey · #**9028** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 1:17 PM**

While there obviously are a lot of interesting developments underway in the vicinity of Mellon Square... it's absurd to think that the revitalized Mellon Sq will have a catalytic impact the way the revitalized Market Square has. Market Sq is a masterpiece of urban design... having roots in its layout that go back hundreds of years. Market Sq is fully integrated with the urban fabric... engaging pedestrians and breaking down the walls between indoor space and outdoor space.

Mellon Sq is your typical modernist 'museum' that is cold to humans. While I welcome the investment in its refreshment... and have enjoyed a relaxing sit on one of the peripheral benches... Mellon Sq is fortified from its surrounding urban fabric and due to its layout... cannot host any type of programming. It is a redoubt of quiet reflection... and due to elevation... is especially segregated from Smithfield St. A passerby could walk down Smithfield and have no indication of Mellon Sq's existence above.

Also... I find it interesting that Herky Pollock skewers PNC for "missing an opportunity" for not incorporating retail into its new HQ tower... yet McKnight Realty's Saks 'redevelopment'... described in the article as a parking garage... is the biggest 'missed opportunity' of all. But Herky's involved in that project...

BrianTH · #**9029** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 1:28 PM**

Eyeball report: they are starting to put in the bridges over the Busway at the ELTC.

On Mellon Square/Saks-site: I agree Mellon Square is never going to rival Market Square because of the poor design, but I do think it probably added value to the neighboring properties anyway, and I also think it could become a lot more useful with something like the food truck plan I sketched out.

I think the point about the Saks site development is that it will have ground floor retail, but I think the key to that being a reasonable development is the apartment tower on top they have supposedly agreed to doing.

Private D · #**9030** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 1:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

It looks like something you'd see in Sao Paulo.

Actually, Pittsburgh would be very lucky to get a new building of the type you'd see in Sao Paulo.

This is more like something you'd see in Des Moines or Dayton or Louisville or Omaha or... anywhere else in the Midwest in an sad attempt to add a splash of colorful, coastal edginess...

Private D · #**9031** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 1:36 PM**

I like that Mellon Square is an oasis detached from the street, otherwise it would be Market Square with lots of dirty water.

Evergrey · #**9032** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 2:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I like that Mellon Square is an oasis detached from the street, otherwise it would be Market Square with lots of dirty water.

I am not condemning Mellon Square... I just think to postulate that Mellon could have the same impact on surrounding retail as Market Square has had... is absurd. They are very different.

photoLith · #**9033** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 2:25 PM**

Mellon Square is not very inviting, its someplace you go to once and only stay for like 5 minutues. I think that spot would be better suited for a residential tower or some other development personally. I didnt even know the park was up there for the first couple months I lived here.

Private D · #**9034** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I am not condemning Mellon Square... I just think to postulate that Mellon could have the same impact on surrounding retail as Market Square has had... is absurd. They are very different.

Yeah, I know. My comment wasn't in reply to your thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by photoLith

Mellon Square is not very inviting, its someplace you go to once and only stay for like 5 minutues. I think that spot would be better suited for a residential tower or some other development personally. I didnt even know the park was up there for the first couple months I lived here.

I actually find it incredibly inviting... and it contains arguably the most urban views to be had within the Golden Triangle. All downtown areas need quiet spots tucked amid the bustle... and often offer perspectives on the city most people will never happen upon. Some of the greatest parts of Manhattan, Chicago, DC, San Francisco, and Boston are those "hidden" spots that aren't apparent to the downtown "tourist"... places that are often only appreciated by those who spend significant time downtown.

If you only go once and stay for only 5 minutes, then that's not a problem with the park... that's ADHD. And not knowing the park was there makes it that much better of a discovery. The "not knowing something was there" is one of the true joys of discovering a city, in my opinion.

Austinlee · #**9035** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 3:00 PM**

Although I agree that Mellon Park is a 1950s concoction, you.can count me as a fan. It's a wonderful park on a summer day; sit on the edge, watch people laugh, eat lunch interact. A definite asset for that area.

gallacus · #**9036** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 3:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Yeah, I know. My comment wasn't in reply to your thoughts.

I actually find it incredibly inviting... and it contains arguably the most urban views to be had within the Golden Triangle. All downtown areas need quiet spots tucked amid the bustle... and often offer perspectives on the city most people will never happen upon. Some of the greatest parts of Manhattan, Chicago, DC, San Francisco, and Boston are those "hidden" spots that aren't apparent to the downtown "tourist"... places that are often only appreciated by those who spend significant time downtown.

If you only go once and stay for only 5 minutes, then that's not a problem with the park... that's ADHD. And not knowing the park was there makes it that much better of a discovery. The "not knowing something was there" is one of the true joys of discovering a city, in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more.

BrianTH · #**9037** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 3:21 PM**

While I also think sometimes quieter, semi-hidden spaces have a place in urban environments, we are talking here about an entire block. Moreover, all the other open spaces nearby (most notably Mellon Green, Steel Plaza, and Crosstown Park) are also lacking in the same ways (ironically, Steel Plaza, a typically awkward highrise-adjacent plaza of its era, is still probably the best of all these).

But obviously Mellon Square is not going to be re-designed any time in the near future regardless of what anyone thinks. So I do think the focus should be on figuring out how to make it a bit more useful.

Private D · #**9038** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 3:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH

While I also think sometimes quieter, semi-hidden spaces have a place in urban environments, we are talking here about an entire block. Moreover, all the other open spaces nearby (most notably Mellon Green, Steel Plaza, and Crosstown Park) are also lacking in the same ways (ironically, Steel Plaza, a typically awkward highrise-adjacent plaza of its era, is still probably the best of all these).

But obviously Mellon Square is not going to be re-designed any time in the near future regardless of what anyone thinks. So I do think the focus should be on figuring out how to make it a bit more useful.

I can't consider those other examples to be in nearly the same league as Mellon Square though. Crosstown "Park" is basically just a sunken, landscaped area between highways on the very edge of downtown... a place to walk through to get from the parking lots on the hill to downtown. And Mellon Green just feels like an afterthought (which I think it actually is)... a green area to pass through... not inviting at all. It's a corporate park and definitely exudes that feel to me. Feels like Houston. I think it is a terrible waste of space on Grant St., and is probably only there until Mellon develops it or sells it off for development... which would be a good thing.

Steel Plaza is inviting and well-used because of its limited, but existing, disconnection from the street, available seating, and large fountain. For a high-rise plaza, it functions well -- offers a "safe" respite from traffic, but still feels like its in the center of the action. I like it.

BrianTH · #**9039** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 4:21 PM**

Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest Mellon Square is as bad as Mellon Green or Crosstown Park. I was just noting that side of Downtown lacks a good public square.

I do disagree a bit on Steel Plaza--I think it can be said to function well only if you start with extremely low expectations for how public spaces can function. The wall/mega-planter on one side and berms/ramps-thing on the other side are pretty awful. The fountain takes up a huge amount of space and additionally its placement pretty much blocks off that whole side.

On the plus side, I agree once you are up there, the portions not blocked by the fountain, or occupied by the mega-planter and berms/ramps-thing, are pretty nice. So I agree it could be even worse, but it is maybe 1/3rd or less of what it could be with a much better design.

Private D · #**9040** Posted **Jul 21, 2014, 4:36 PM**

^ Yeah, I can agree with that.