Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Marcus CLS

I am a soccer fan but have no delusions about the type of game we will see. NASL is tier 2 not MLS. All the hype this past week was all about the Redblacks. The CFL has a long tradition and History in Ottawa but I am not aware of the same for soccer in the Nation's capitol. This is a new experiment and sport at the professional level for Ottawa. Despite having 3 CDN MLS teams and now 2 CDN NASL teams we have a long way to grow the sport at a top level in Canada. Rather then critique the caliber of play for the match I am choosing to attend as many games that I can to support the Fury and be patient that the team will grow along with the support they can get from the fans.

The attendance for today's game was fantastic given that for soccer in North America 15 to 20K is good. For a tier 2 team to get 14 k is a great start. If the Fury can maintain 10 k for the remainder of the season now that we are in TD Place we are sitting pretty.

I am old enough to remember going to Toronto Blizzard games at Varsity Stadium and watching attendance grow from 5K to 10K to 15k before the original NASL folded. I have had to wait 25 plus years for TFC to join MLS and a further 8 years for the Fury so I am just glad we have a team to support.

I have been in Ottawa for 17 years. Let's go Fury, All For One TFC. I will also be following the Montreal Impact in CONCACAF Champions league as the winners of the Voyageur Cup.

Don't get me wrong, I'll go back and see more games. I just thought that today's game was bad relative to the couple of other Fury games I've seen.

OSEG is counting on 4-6000 per game, so 10k would be exceptional. Even 6k puts them near the top of the league.

[EdFromOttawa]

Quality of play was bad??? I'm guessing you're basing that judgement on EPL/La Liga games you see every once in a while on TV.

I live in London UK and regularly attend games live at all levels (Arsenal, Fulham, Tottenham, QPR etc...); trust me this game was hardly low quality even comparative to high level club games here. In general i've found NASL soccer to be around League One or even better in terms of skill, speed etc.... and overall as exciting if not more so in terms of quality chances. Ottawa had 5+ solid chances at net and the Cosmos rang the post + forced some good saves from Gorrick. What more can you ask of a 1-nil game?

FYI NASL squads are UNDEFEATED in friendly matches against English Premier League squads (see Minessota's recent 2-0 win over Swansea a few days ago) and have a winning record against MLS sides this uear across both friendlies and competitive games. Our captain Richie Ryan played games for Sunderland AFC in the EPL. Maykon has played in the Champions League. I could go on.

My point is how funny it is when people disparage NASL for its "quality" because they think thwy know real soccer from watching a few European games on TV. The reality is the competitive line is a lot closer overall than many realize. Today's 1-0 game could have been 3-2 like that. But that's footy. I've seen plenty of EPL games live that were bigger snoozers than this one with keepers making horrendous amateur plays and all that.

Keep supporting. This club can go places if Ottawa let's it.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by Horus

- Concession lines were loooooong. I was in the North Side stands and the lines for concessions on both the upper and lower concourses were very long...more so on the lower concourse than the upper. They may want to consider opening all concession outlets in the lower concourse (those on the other side of the hockey rink) to balance the crowds.

That was the only issue I had. I think I may have gotten in before I was supposed to. They wouldn't let me across the bridge so I wandered down the northside because I hadn't seen it yet. Got tot he end and looped around to the south that way. Realized I was the only one with a ticket around his neck. Nobody bothered me though.

The place was a bee hive early on like that so when I got to the counter form which I wanted to order food, they still look unprepared. I figured I'd give it a few minutes later. I came back a little later as they were CLOSING. Gave it more time, same situation. Next time out, they were open but with a huge line and I had friends to meet up with so I gave up.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by Cre47

An article from Le Droit mentionned that the fears of traffic that the Glebites were fearing did not materialize...

That's unfortunate for the "chronically concerned". I guess they still have the fear that this development will a be a financial burden for future generations to hold on to.

[Fatty McButterpants]

Originally Posted by O-Town Hockey

Of course the novelty will wear off, but that doesn't mean the football fans are going anywhere. This park will draw even casual sports fans given its central location in a pleasant walkable neighborhood. Afternoon games will be very interesting as many will choose to stick around after for dinner/movie/shopping/pubs/etc. I think the naysayers can shut their traps now as the reaction to the new stadium/team has been overwhelmingly positive. The retail remains the big question mark, but the stadium and teams really don't depend at all on retail success. Well, off to join an NASL record crowd for our new and very popular pro soccer team.

The best thing about this stadium is its surroundings. The stadium itself is nothing to write home about. You said it yourself, the draw will be the dinner/ movies/shopping/pubs, etc. (of course you then go on to to say "the retail remains the big question mark") (???). Thank god this dump is nestled where it is. Can you imagine this exact same stadium located in Kanata and with none of the surrounding retail? The redblacks would be in the red and gone within 2years. The bad news is that we have the 8th best stadium facility in the CFL. The bright side is that we'll probably rank much higher in game day experience. We can thank the surroundings for that, not the stadium.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by gjhall

Many businesses in the Glebe had specials on for the game, and after bars and restaurants were packed.

Clearly all part of the plan to destroy the Glebe.

[teej1984]

Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants

The best thing about this stadium is its surroundings. The stadium itself is nothing to write home about. You said it yourself, the draw will be the dinner/ movies/shopping/pubs, etc. (of course you then go on to to say "the retail remains the big question mark") (???). Thank god this dump is nestled where it is. Can you imagine this exact same stadium located in Kanata and with none of the surrounding retail? The redblacks would be in the red and gone within 2years. The bad news is that we have the 8th best stadium facility in the CFL. The bright side is that we'll probably rank much higher in game day experience. We can thank the surroundings for that, not the stadium.

I'd be curious to know how you rank the stadiums.

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by teej1984

I'd be curious to know how you rank the stadiums.

Look back a few pages.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants

The best thing about this stadium is its surroundings. The stadium itself is nothing to write home about. You said it yourself, the draw will be the dinner/ movies/shopping/pubs, etc. (of course you then go on to to say "the retail remains the big question mark") (???). Thank god this dump is nestled where it is. Can you imagine this exact same stadium located in Kanata and with none of the surrounding retail? The redblacks would be in the red and gone within 2years. The bad news is that we have the 8th best stadium facility in the CFL. The bright side is that we'll probably rank much higher in game day experience. We can thank the surroundings for that, not the stadium.

I don't know anybody who goes to sports games because the stadium looks nice. They go because they either like the sport, or like being at the game with people who like the sport. Sure nice seats and amenities help, but all of that can be retrofitted into an older building.

Before it was torn down, Hamilton's Ivor Wynne stadium was certainly nothing special, with uncomfortable benches, lots of concrete and chain link fence. Even then, whenever I went to see a game with family in Toronto, they would choose it over Rogers SkyDome every time.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by Fatty McButterpants

The best thing about this stadium is its surroundings. The stadium itself is nothing to write home about. You said it yourself, the draw will be the dinner/ movies/shopping/pubs, etc. (of course you then go on to to say "the retail remains the big question mark") (???). Thank god this dump is nestled where it is. Can you imagine this exact same stadium located in Kanata and with none of the surrounding retail? The redblacks would be in the red and gone within 2years. The bad news is that we have the 8th best stadium facility in the CFL. The bright side is that we'll probably rank much higher in game day experience. We can thank the surroundings for that, not the stadium.

Did you attend any of the games? Because it doesn't sound like it. I was there with 3 friends for the Fury, and they were all impressed with the stadium. Sightlines are great, seats are comfy, crowd flow was decent, and when you first walk in from the Bank street entrance under the scoreboard, it has a nice wow factor to it. Go see a game there, then report back.

For me it was the second time inside the stadium, first time was the open house, and its definitely growing on me.

My only complaint was the long lineups for food in the North stands, and this was during the Fury game, so I don't even want to think about how bad it was during the sellout Redblacks game. But I am sure they will work this out in no time. In the meantime, sounds like the upper concessions on the South side are the best bet if you want short lineups and not food shortages.

Regarding FURY level of play, compared to most of their spring season matches that I attended, I think this one was average. It looked like they were a bit rusty. But they did have some quality chances early in the 1st half and also late in the 2nd, just couldn't finish. Next up is the international friendly vs the Rangers, this will be a good test for the Fury. Anyone know how many tickets they have sold for the Rangers game?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by EdFromOttawa

Quality of play was bad??? I'm guessing you're basing that judgement on EPL/La Liga games you see every once in a while on TV.

I live in London UK and regularly attend games live at all levels (Arsenal, Fulham, Tottenham, QPR etc...); trust me this game was hardly low quality even comparative to high level club games here. In general i've found NASL soccer to be around League One or even better in terms of skill, speed etc.... and overall as exciting if not more so in terms of quality chances. Ottawa had 5+ solid chances at net and the Cosmos rang the post + forced some good saves from Gorrick. What more can you ask of a 1-nil game?

FYI NASL squads are UNDEFEATED in friendly matches against English Premier League squads (see Minessota's recent 2-0 win over Swansea a few days ago) and have a winning record against MLS sides this uear across both friendlies and competitive games. Our captain Richie Ryan played games for Sunderland AFC in the EPL. Maykon has played in the Champions League. I could go on.

My point is how funny it is when people disparage NASL for its "quality" because they think thwy know real soccer from watching a few European games on TV. The reality is the competitive line is a lot closer overall than many realize. Today's 1-0 game could have been 3-2 like that. But that's footy. I've seen plenty of EPL games live that were bigger snoozers than this one with keepers making horrendous amateur plays and all that.

Keep supporting. This club can go places if Ottawa let's it.

I've actually seen quite a few European games live, thanks. It's a bit of a stretch to suggest that the quality is not far off the top leagues in Europe. I'm far from a Eurpean soccer snob, but there is a reason that the average salary in those leagues runs into the millions, and the average NASL salary is $12,000 or thereabouts.

Yes, NASL teams beat Premier League teams in friendlies on occasion. But those games are always played in their off season and see any first team players that happen to start subbed off early in the game. Not sure what you mean about competitive games, unless you mean pre-season tournaments that the Premier League teams use to look at their young guys.

NASL is also well below MLS. Yes, teams win some games in the Champions League on occasion, but on average, they do not do well. That is made obvious when a team like the Impact make the jump (from NASL or equivalent). You are lucky if one or two players stays on the roster. And MLS is likely closer to League One than the Championship in terms of quality, with the designated players in MLS bringing the level up towards the Championship.

I'm not meaning to disparage NASL, just being realistic. My complaint about yesterday was the number of errant passes in the first half, with four or five of them going randomly out of bounds, and the poor quality of first touches. Offensive build-up was also almost entirely absent until the last 10 minutes of each half. Of course this is all a matter of opinion, but I can tell you that the opinion in the section I was in was decidedly on the boring game side.

In any event, like I said, you've got to start somewhere, and I will keep supporting the team. It's just too bad the first game in front of a big crowd was a bit of a stinker in the opinion of most people I talked to.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Radster

My only complaint was the long lineups for food in the North stands, and this was during the Fury game, so I don't even want to think about how bad it was during the sellout Redblacks game. But I am sure they will work this out in no time. In the meantime, sounds like the upper concessions on the South side are the best bet if you want short lineups and not food shortages.

Regarding FURY level of play, compared to most of their spring season matches that I attended, I think this one was average. It looked like they were a bit rusty. But they did have some quality chances early in the 1st half and also late in the 2nd, just couldn't finish. Next up is the international friendly vs the Rangers, this will be a good test for the Fury. Anyone know how many tickets they have sold for the Rangers game?

Not sure on the number of tickets sold, but I'll be there.

As for the lines on the North Side, I thought that the plan was to use some of the Civic Centre concessions to increase the space available on the first level. They weren't open on Sunday, but I don't see any reason they couldn't do that.

[EdFromOttawa]

Originally Posted by phil235

I've actually seen quite a few European games live, thanks. It's a bit of a stretch to suggest that the quality is not far off the top leagues in Europe. I'm far from a Eurpean soccer snob, but there is a reason that the average salary in those leagues runs into the millions, and the average NASL salary is $12,000 or thereabouts.

Yes, NASL teams beat Premier League teams in friendlies on occasion. But those games are always played in their off season and see any first team players that happen to start subbed off early in the game. Not sure what you mean about competitive games, unless you mean pre-season tournaments that the Premier League teams use to look at their young guys.

NASL is also well below MLS. Yes, teams win some games in the Champions League on occasion, but on average, they do not do well. That is made obvious when a team like the Impact make the jump (from NASL or equivalent). You are lucky if one or two players stays on the roster. And MLS is likely closer to League One than the Championship in terms of quality, with the designated players in MLS bringing the level up towards the Championship.

My complaint about yesterday was the number of errant passes in the first half, with four or five of them going randomly out of bounds, and the poor quality of first touches. Offensive build-up was also almost entirely absent until the last 10 minutes of each half. Of course this is all a matter of opinion, but I can tell you that the opinion in the section I was in was decidedly on the boring game side.

In any event, like I said, you've got to start somewhere, and I will keep supporting the team. It's just too bad the first game in front of a big crowd was a bit of a stinker in the opinion of most people I talked to.

It's not on occasion. It's always. NASL teams are undefeated playing EPL teams in friendlies. Fair enough about it being their offseason and not having all their best players, but still it is quite a lot more encouraging than losing and a quality EPL team will have world-class players throughout its organization.

No pre-season tournaments. It's the international friendlies they play while on tour in the U.S. See the Swansea City example: http://www.mnunitedfc.com/news/detail/uuid/1t5020ijvdy7i14kizahk0a6ij#.U80qqvldXdc

Not even slightly true. As I said, NASL squads have an excellent record against MLS teams in competitive play (U.S. Open Cup & Canada Cup) and friendlies. The Carolina Railhawks have beaten LA Galaxy and Chivas USA in the US Open Cup now two years running. In this year's tourney the Galaxy team featured Donovan and Keane...hardly a training squad; this was the first team. Atlanta Silverbacks beat out Real Salt Lake (MLS finalist last year) and the Colorado Rapids (while down to 9 men for the majority of the game no less!!!). No clue what you mean by Champions League unless you mean CONCACAF which I'm not sure is relevant here.

I agree it wasn't the most exciting game yesterday, but it wasn't bad either. To say that NASL is a fundamentally inferior soccer league or somehow non-pro is categorically wrong and a fully ignorant opinion (which I admit is unfortunately widely pervasive in Ottawa). The reality is most Ottawa sports fans know very little about how international soccer works, or indeed too much about any league outside the NHL. Generally I've found the instant reaction to anything even remotely confusing or superficially negative (a competitive 1-0 loss) in Ottawa is to condemn and dismiss it as something irrelevant or not worth following/supporting. Which bewilders me to no end given the constant see-saw between demanding to have more sports teams, and letting them fold like tents when things don't go in an expected or understood way.

The reality for me is that the Fury are actually a more exciting and important sports product in Ottawa than the Redblacks or Sens because of the way international soccer is so interconnected. We may only be in the second division continentally, but we still have many many opportunities to play against higher level squads in both competitive and exhibition play. Look at Montreal Impact when they were in NASL. Despite the league's lower standing, they attracted opponents as big as AC Milan (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/ac-milan-thrills-montreal-crowd-downs-impact-1.964510).

Rangers FC are easily the highest profile sports club to ever play in Ottawa in its history. That's thanks to the Fury and you can be sure that more will come with strong support. Hell it is even quite feasible to imagine following Impact and Whitecaps in the jump to MLS; but you gotta start somewhere!

To not support the team now on the basis that the league is "too low quality" is absolutely foolish and reflects a complete misunderstanding of how global soccer leagues work together.

This rant is of course not directed at someone like you who has expressed commitment to the team and league despite your views of the play. More it's just a general comment on some of the more common complaints about Fury and NASL.

[citydwlr]

^ EdFromOttawa and Phil235, your conversation reminded me of an article that was posted in the Sun about how most of Ottawa would rather have an MLS team, but as you both mentioned, "we have to start somewhere":

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/07/18/hey-ottawa-relax-no-rush-to-get-an-mls-team-in-ottawa

It's been said more than once by more than one person since the arrival of Ottawa Fury FC that so and so won't develop an active interest in soccer in Ottawa until the day an MLS franchise suddenly moves into town.

If NASL soccer doesn't succeed in Ottawa in the long-term, it's that kind of attitude that will be to blame and another example of how peculiar the sports fan base in this city can be. Right now, it's about growing interest in soccer, increasing interest in a sport that many still don't know is now being played professionally here. "‹

The process of actually landing an MLS franchise also seems to be misunderstood. There is no promotion/relegation agreement between MLS and NASL, so Fury FC can't play its way up a tier in the North American soccer hierarchy. It's not like Ottawa can suddenly go on a lengthy unbeaten streak and, bam, MLS in the city is born.

"Teams aren't being blown away and in some cases NASL teams are beating MLS teams," [Tommy] Heinemann said Friday. "The designated players are the marketing power MLS has is bigger at this point but it's been in existence a lot longer than the new NASL has."

Another interesting article is from FoxSports. Half-way through the article they talk about the differences in the business model that MLS has chosen vs. that of the NASL:

Ultimately, the NASL believes there are enough serious soccer fans in this country to support two professional leagues, even if both eventually grow to two dozen or so teams – MLS, now at 19, plans to go to 24 by 2020.

In that equation, the NASL has positioned itself as the anti-MLS, with its steep, high-eight figure expansion fees, byzantine regulations, complex roster limitations, salary caps and allocation funds. Entry for new owners is cheap and the business model simple and modest, meaning the league isn’t dependent on income from expansion fees and national broadcast deals, which are low and non-existent, respectively.

"We’re building this league on the premise that you can run it and break even with your sponsorship, ticket sales and your local broadcasts," says Peterson. "If you achieve that; and we’re on path to do that -- we have teams that are beyond break-even, we have others that are very close -- then you don’t need to do those deals and therefore we’re free to be patient and do the deals that make the most sense for us. At some point, obviously, we’d like to prove that we’re worth those types of deals but we don’t have to for existence."

The idea is for every club to be largely unregulated and entirely self-sustaining, rather than being subservient to the larger entity. That’s antithetical to the MLS model, but nevertheless the way things are done the world over. And Peterson believes it gives the NASL the best chance of survival. “Soccer is a global game,” he says. “And those guys [MLS] have been successful in building a domestic league. But we look at the sport differently. It’s a global market place, there’s a global soccer economy. In order to enter into that economy, you have to look and feel like that economy.

[Radster]

Originally Posted by phil235

and the average NASL salary is $12,000 or thereabouts.

Its actually $15,000-$100,000 in the NASL, but most are under $40,000.
http://blog.fieldoo.com/2014/02/league-review-nasl-reviving-the-past-glory-of-pele/

Also, looking the transfer market value of Fury players, I was actually quite surprised to see how high some of them are worth, and this goes to show that OSEG are definitely spending millions of $ on signing high level international talent for this team. http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ottawa-fury-fc/startseite/verein/39151

[gmarshall]

What a night to be flying. Was surprised to see no other airplanes above the game.

Amazing the progress on the site in the last few weeks.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Radster

Its actually $15,000-$100,000 in the NASL, but most are under $40,000.
http://blog.fieldoo.com/2014/02/league-review-nasl-reviving-the-past-glory-of-pele/

Also, looking the transfer market value of Fury players, I was actually quite surprised to see how high some of them are worth, and this goes to show that OSEG are definitely spending millions of $ on signing high level international talent for this team. http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ottawa-fury-fc/startseite/verein/39151

Hadn't seen those transfer numbers. Pretty impressive.

As for the salaries, I haven't seen anything that definitive before. Most of the figures that I have seen suggested $1500 to $2000 per month, plus allowances. Maybe the allowances are included in those numbers.

In any event, regardless of the difference in models etc., these are professional leagues that we are talking about. For the most part, money attracts talent. There are going to be exceptions, and yes, there are highly paid players on NASL teams, but I would find it hard to believe that a league with a $20-30,000 average salary is going to be of a quality that can compete with one that pays $148,000 on average, let alone one that pays $500,000 on average (the Championship). As was noted, soccer is an international game that is very interconnected, and for the most part, talent follows the money.

[Radster]

http://www.ottawasun.com/2014/07/21/55-tickets-9-vehicles-towed-during-first-big-td-place-tests

I bet one of those people who complained about someone parked too long on their street was..........actually no need to point fingers, we all know who!!!!

[phil235]

Originally Posted by citydwlr

^ EdFromOttawa and Phil235, your conversation reminded me of an article that was posted in the Sun about how most of Ottawa would rather have an MLS team, but as you both mentioned, "we have to start somewhere":

Sports sensibilities are a funny thing. In Europe there is along history of supporting your club team regardless of the level they are playing in.

In North America, the tradition is more tied to feeder leagues like junior hockey and college football, where the players are younger and are trying to make pro. There is minor league baseball and the AHL, but again, those are generally farm teams of the top teams with a direct route to the major leagues.

It will take a shift in sensibilities to see more acceptance of lower tier pro leagues. Personally I think relegation and promotion would be good for soccer here, as it would differentiate the lower leagues from the minor leagues in other sports. But as your article noted, that isn't likely given the very different models of MLS and the NASL. At least the inter-league club competitions are helpful that way.

[waterloowarrior]

Thanks for posting the aerials!! Great shots!