Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada - Page 30

wg_flamip · #**581** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 4:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

... Out of curiosity, are you saying there's supposed to be an audible difference between "stout" and "stahwt"? I don't hear it (and have always been brought the right beer -- when it comes to beer, it's usually stout for me. So it seems my pronounciation isn't an issue).

(Which is probably why I also have been insensitive to the difference between "about" and "abahwt".)

For someone speaking Canadian English, there shouldn't be a difference in the vowel sounds between "about" and "stout." There should be a difference between the vowel sounds in "lout" and "loud" though - and that difference is called Canadian raising. If you slowly and deliberately pronounce the word "loud" and turn the "d" into a "t", you'll get an American pronunciation of the word. And, if you want to extend that exercise to "about," you should be able to pronounce it like a Yank.

Canadian raising is also why, to us, "writer" and "rider" aren't homophones as they are down South. Though, IIRC, Canadian raising is one of those West-of-Quebec things.

Americans don't have these sounds in their dialect, and they therefore make an exaggerated "aboot" when trying to nail down the difference. And, because we hear them say it like that, we refuse to believe we say it any differently at all.

kwoldtimer · #**582** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 1:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lio45

... Out of curiosity, are you saying there's supposed to be an audible difference between "stout" and "stahwt"? I don't hear it (and have always been brought the right beer -- when it comes to beer, it's usually stout for me. So it seems my pronounciation isn't an issue).

(Which is probably why I also have been insensitive to the difference between "about" and "abahwt".)

I'm not a linguist, so it's hard to come up with an approximation of the sound using the standard alphabet, but it is a key difference between Canadian and U.S. pronunciation. The easiest way to tell which side of the border somebody is from is to ask them to say "house". In Canada, it's a clipped "ow" sound (like "oww that hurts"), while in the U.S. there's a vowel shift that takes the sound closer (but not quite, which is why I write it as "ahw") to "aw" as in "aww, isn't that cute".

kwoldtimer · #**583** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 1:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister F

Do throat and moat sound the same to you as spout and doubt? Some people say them the same way sure, but it's hardly typical.

To me they are very different sounds. I would find it strange if someone pronounced "throat" and "doubt" the same way.

kwoldtimer · #**584** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 1:17 PM**

[QUOTE=wg_flamip;6658015]For someone speaking Canadian English, there shouldn't be a difference in the vowel sounds between "about" and "stout." There should be a difference between the vowel sounds in "lout" and "loud" though - and that difference is called Canadian raising. If you slowly and deliberately pronounce the word "loud" and turn the "d" into a "t", you'll get an American pronunciation of the word. And, if you want to extend that exercise to "about," you should be able to pronounce it like a Yank.
Canadian raising is also why, to us, "writer" and "rider" aren't homophones as they are down South. Though, IIRC, Canadian raising is one of those West-of-Quebec things.

Americans don't have these sounds in their dialect, and they therefore make an exaggerated "aboot" when trying to nail down the difference. And, because we hear them say it like that, we refuse to believe we say it any differently at all.[/QUOTE]

This is it exactly! Much better than my feeble attempt to explain the difference. It also applies to my example of "house".

SignalHillHiker · #**585** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 1:26 PM**

Makes sense. Kind of like how non-Slavic language speakers often can't hear the subtle differences between the various ch-style sounds in, say, Ukrainian, that sound quite different to people raised in the language.

Acajack · #**586** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 3:33 PM**

Having been used to hearing them all my life, the Canadian ''about'' and ''house'' are what sound normal to me and the American ones even sound a bit lazy, like "abaaaaaaaaht" and ''haass''....

SignalHillHiker · #**587** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 3:45 PM**

I can't really hear a mainland way of saying "about". Some places drag it out more than we do, but it doesn't sound like they're actually trying to make a different noise. It's still "ow", not "ooh".

It's not like words such as "car", "dog", and "downtown", where mainland accents really stand out as jarringly different.

Acajack · #**588** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 3:57 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I can't really hear a mainland way of saying "about". Some places drag it out more than we do, but it doesn't sound like they're actually trying to make a different noise. It's still "ow", not "ooh".

It's not like words such as "car", "dog", and "downtown", where mainland accents really stand out as jarringly different.

Most mainland anglos I know or have known say it like something in between aboat and aboot. Leaning more toward aboat. Francophones who speak English as a second language tend to say it that way as well.

SignalHillHiker · #**589** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 3:58 PM**

I called Dad and recorded myself talking to him, like some kind of psychopath, to try to get a clip of me naturally saying "about" in conversation, as opposed to just reading it into the mic.

Et voila...

• Video Link

Acajack · #**590** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 4:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I called Dad and recorded myself talking to him, like some kind of psychopath, to try to get a clip of me naturally saying "about" in conversation, as opposed to just reading it into the mic.

Et voila...

• Video Link

It's not that far off from the standard Canadian "about''. Definitely not like the American.

SignalHillHiker · #**591** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 4:07 PM**

Well, that explains why theirs doesn't sound weird to me.

kwoldtimer · #**592** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 4:19 PM**

From now on, if we ever encounter a 'murican who claims that we say "aboot", we can explain to him about Canadian raising and the fact that we collectively make a sound that they can't manage. Advantage, Canadian pronunciation!

SignalHillHiker · #**593** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 4:28 PM**

I'm trying to figure out the source of this, why I and people in Western Canada would pronounce it in a similar way. I know it's not something I picked up living on the mainland because no one there ever mentioned I said it wrong, and no one here ever has either. And it all sounds more or less the same, except for pace/enunciation, to me.

I'd guess it's England, given this:

Quote:

Despite its name, the phenomenon is not restricted to Canada. "Classic" Canadian raising, affecting both the /aʊ/ and /aɪ/ diphthongs, is quite common in New England (including in the traditional accent of Martha's Vineyard), and also occurs in parts of the upper Midwest. Southern Atlantic varieties of English and the accents of the Fens in England feature it as well. The second, "American" variety, affects only /aɪ/, and is found in the northern United States, the Mid-Atlantic Dialect region, California, other parts of the broad "Western" dialect area, and probably in many other parts of the country, as it appears to be spreading. There is considerable variation in its application and phonetic effects. In New York City English, /aʊ/ is fronted everywhere and /aɪ/ is backed in non-raised positions.[1] A portion of the coastal South Atlantic raises /aʊ/ but not /aɪ/. There are also Canadians who raise /aɪ/ and not /aʊ/ or vice versa.

I still don't hear "ab-oat", though. Hardly ever. I think I say, and it sounds to me like most people, "ab-out".

SignalHillHiker · #**594** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 4:31 PM**

I'm sitting here like a crazy person saying it out loud.

Trying to drop my voice between "ab" and "out" so it doesn't raise.

Really makes the difference between having it raised and not raised clear, in my head at least.

kool maudit · #**595** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 4:58 PM**

it's just a shorter, more clipped word when said by a canadian. in most american dialects (as well as received pronunciation), it's a broader word.

SignalHillHiker · #**596** Posted **Jul 17, 2014, 5:44 PM**

This is what happens when a Turkish man's school-learned English is filled in here in Newfoundland.

I LOVE it!

• Video Link

And another example from Taiwan, with a Newfoundlander's pace/style but more a mainlander's pronunciation. And she didn't speak any English before getting here: