DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I can finish the study for them right here, right now. The "most feasible rail transit route ... to provide a direct rail connection with no transfers between downtown Denver and the future 38th + Blake Station" is the airport train. I mean, we're meant to believe that Union Station is right in the thick of it all. And that's actually pretty true for the airport train. So there's really no better way to connect those two.

Now, if the study was aiming to link Central Denver, more broadly, to the 38th + Blake Station, fine. But if what's above is truly the stated objective, then they should give me a $1 million consulting fee and call it good.

Wait till you hear how they're going to run LRT on Downing.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Wait till you hear how they're going to run LRT on Downing.

I heard that it involves using B-cycle stations and some sort of light rail/bike hybrid.

Bunt will be overjoyed.

[bunt_q]

What the hell is a light rail/bicycle hybrid? Give me a rickshaw powered by hunchbacks and homeless people, please.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

i heard that it involves using b-cycle stations and some sort of light rail/bike hybrid.

Bunt will be overjoyed.

Pedal faster!!!!! My flight leaves in 30 minutes!!!!!! Gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

[bcp]

Another study! :-)

[Cirrus]

They call this TOD, but it looks merely transit-adjacent to me. The giant parking lot is forgivable at this early stage, but facing the parking lot towards the light rail station and making transit users walk around it to get to the building is not. Orienting the building to face away from the transit station by definition is not transit-oriented.

Originally Posted by Denver Post

Goldman Sachs grabs majority share in Denver office building

Southeast Denver's still-tight market for office space and looser investor purse strings have helped draw Goldman Sachs to a project with light-rail at its doorstep.

The New York investment bank will take a majority share in One Belleview Station, an office building expected to break ground in December

When it opens in April 2016, the $90 million building, part of the master-planned Belleview Station transit-oriented development, will feature 290,000 square feet of class A office space. The project is near the Belleview light-rail station, near the intersection of East Belleview Avenue and Interstate 25.

The LRT station is 1 block north:

onebelleviewstation.com


onebelleviewstation.com


onebelleviewstation.com


onebelleviewstation.com

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

They call this TOD, but it looks merely transit-adjacent to me...

This is actually one of the better locations for near to light rail station siting on the Southeast Rail, which, as a unit is designed as a very non-pedestrian friendly line.

1. There is no huge, arcane pedestrian walkway that goes across I-25 to always walk over.

2. There is very convenient road access between Belleview Station and the site which points to good potential bicycle usage (and the road is not very inclined either.)

3. Walking distance of 300 meters, which is at the outside range of pedestrian access. And, as said in point 2, the route is level.

Recommendations.

1. I agree with Cirrus on the parking. Perhaps the entire complex should be rotated 90 degrees clockwise. I do note, however, that building #2, will both have a maximum western exposure (got to love those mountain views) and will be even closer to the light rail station.

2. A nice little bike lane only would please both the new tenants at the apartments/condos being built at Niagra and Belleview, tenants of the new building, and tenants of the yet to be announced (or planned) buildings to be built any where between E Union, Niagra, Belleview, and I-25.

(this would be an easy sales pitch and cheap to build before the building(s) are completed.)


*************

I believe, based upon Goldman Sachs history, that the Company did not make a bad decision here. They seldom make any decision that costs them potential moneys, as most of us that have been concerned with US 36 know.

[TakeFive]

Wizened: Is that where the driving range was for years?

I don't consider that to be a prime location for office space, particularly. Putting the parking garage on Quebec and towards the freeway though makes esthetic sense. I'll guess that it will be more of a smaller tenant space building unless by chance somebody larger wants the visibility. The noise of traffic from the freeway or hassle of Belleview Avenue? No thanks.

[Cirrus]

I do agree this is a prime TOD location. And though it's unfortunate that DTC keeps beating downtown for office tenants, I'd rather have future DTC offices locate at TODs than a half mile away. This is the closest LRT station to the core of DTC, so it's a reasonable spot for office TOD.

I just wish this were better executed.

[bunt_q]

I think the reality is that nobody cares, because nobody really uses the light rail to access suburban office locations. The train is for going downtown.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I do agree this is a prime TOD location. And though it's unfortunate that DTC keeps beating downtown for office tenants, I'd rather have future DTC offices locate at TODs than a half mile away. This is the closest LRT station to the core of DTC, so it's a reasonable spot for office TOD.

I just wish this were better executed.

There's room enough for both downtown and the DTC especially the northern part as apposed to Meridian on the south to use a very broad view of DTC. If you're thinking of the east side of I-25 then this is the closest station. I assume the east side is still running shuttle buses? On the west side of I-25 the newer nicer buildings are south of Orchard.

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I think the reality is that nobody cares, because nobody really uses the light rail to access suburban office locations. The train is for going downtown.

LOL, I'll assume over time that this will have some light rail appeal. It's OK for TOD appeal. Their web page made it sound like they wanted to appeal to "neighbors" that might want some office space as apposed to working out of their home, at least partly. The Arapahoe Station has done a much nicer job with office buildings IMO.

[Wizened Variations]

We are not talking high quality Japanese style placement of office space immediately adjacent to train stations. We are talking about distances from stations and ease of pedestrian and/or bicycle use.

We, in Denver, are about a generation behind the planning curve when compared to leading edge TOD development outside the US, and to make matters worse, the T-Rex line is one of the worst executed light rail segments in the RTD system for TOD friendly design.

But my point is Station specific, and, the Belleview Station has the best future integration with office, and, residential space of any Southeast corridor station simply because of the relatively short pedestrian distance from the Station to land that can be developed. While I am not confident that what will end up being built 300 meters or so from Station will be very well designed, the distance factor remains.

As to noise.

The Japanese have long been faced with the proximity of people and loud noises whether generated by roads or rails. Their approach has been to enclose stations with sound protecting walls, which often blend into platform roofing.

All that needs to be done at Belleview is to shield the station from I-25, with the station open towards the West. In fact, something like this should be done at almost all T-Rex stations because freeway caused noise levels can be painfully high. The solution is truly low dollar, perhaps $1 million or less per station.

[navyweaxguy]

Boring. They would have been a good fit for T2.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

They call this TOD, but it looks merely transit-adjacent to me. The giant parking lot is forgivable at this early stage, but facing the parking lot towards the light rail station and making transit users walk around it to get to the building is not. Orienting the building to face away from the transit station by definition is not transit-oriented.

The building currently under construction (and near completion) at the NE corner of Belleview and Niagra has some surprisingly good street frontage for the DTC. Because of that building I was hopeful the remainder of the build out would be of similar density, but unfortunately this proposal takes a step backwards in that regards.

I'm actually kind of surprised the Belleview Station district is allowing this design to go through considering the rest of the buildings look like they will have zero lot line setbacks and no garages fronting the roads.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by navyweaxguy

Boring. They would have been a good fit for T2.

Goldman Sachs isn't moving there, they just are an equity partner in the project.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

The building currently under construction (and near completion) at the NE corner of Belleview and Niagra has some surprisingly good street frontage for the DTC. Because of that building I was hopeful the remainder of the build out would be of similar density, but unfortunately this proposal takes a step backwards in that regards.

I'm actually kind of surprised the Belleview Station district is allowing this design to go through considering the rest of the buildings look like they will have zero lot line setbacks and no garages fronting the roads.

The issue should not simply be build out. Denver is doing plenty of ****** build outs. The issue, instead should be ease of pedestrian access from light rail stations. Too often, TODs in Denver, as I said before, are determined by the distance as measured via a ruler on Google maps, not by pedestrian travel distance.

The first very well thought out pedestrian/station interface will stimulate more such build outs, but, to be frank, most of the station locations and interfaces are not well thought out for the pedestrian, particularly along the infamous T-Rex line.

I am tired of excuses. Just look at the bottom line of what has been built and judge that.

[PLANSIT]

Have we seen this? 13th + Lincoln.



It's fairly new, as the streets were re-paved recently. And there's actually 2 new buildings rendered.

EDIT: Found this RFQP (2013) for redevelopment through Colorado Department of Natural Resources.

http://trustlands.state.co.us/Sections/R...FQP%20Capitol%20Hill%20FINAL%2080513.pdf

[FrancoRey]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Have we seen this? 13th + Lincoln.



It's fairly new, as the streets were re-paved recently. And there's actually 2 new buildings rendered.

Ooooooo. Me likey.

It's new to me. More apts, or are they actually condos this time?

The location is on what is now the building for the Colorado Ballet. Would they vacate and go to another location, or take up residence in the ground floors of this new building? Maybe the one in the back by AI Colorado? It looks like office/commercial space.

I LOVE how they are saving the old building front in this rendering. Hopefully this comes to pass.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by FrancoRey

Ooooooo. Me likey.

It's new to me. More apts, or are they actually condos this time?

The location is on what is now the building for the Colorado Ballet. Would they vacate and go to another location, or take up residence in the ground floors of this new building? Maybe the one in the back by AI Colorado? It looks like office/commercial space.

I LOVE how they are saving the old building front in this rendering. Hopefully this comes to pass.

Colorado Ballet is already moving.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Colorado Ballet is already moving.

Ooh, cool. We need photos not just a rendering.


Per linked site