Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 3

[asies1981]

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[Lilljemalm]

I just returned from a few days in Denver. Across the street from my old office ther (I lived there for 11 years), is the new state courts building. They did a very good job on it...very nice building. I was sorry to see, however, the streets around my old office get a bit dirty since I left. They need a good scrubbing. People presence, though was very good, but mostly on the other end of downtown in LoDo. The Civic Center end appears to be deteriorating sinc e I left five years ago. I had lunch one day with some old friends, some of whom have influence ther, and they are looking for ideas to prevent deterioration of their central core. I told them to look at the Denver, Seattle and SLC threads to get the ideas of the up and coming. I think it good for cities to look at each other and get ideas of what works and what doesn't, learning from each other and swapping ideas. Here are a few things that came out of our conversations...it may be better to spread out the entertainment a bit so that the people spread out more...high density housing built over high density entertainment results in high turnover in the housing, the biggest complaint from tnrnts being noise from the entertainment businesses...some of those with influence in Denver want to see more retail in downtown...they give SLC's City Creek Center high marks...they wish they had at least a few larger city blocks for new development..my old fat fingers don't type as we'll in this iPad as they do on a regular keyboard...they wish LoDo had more retail and fewer bars...they agreed with me that the city needs to put more into street cleaning...it has become more difficult to attract capital for development and more difficult to attract business to CO the past few months due to the new MJ laws...the suburbs have severely overbuilt commercial space...Broomfield and Westminster are great examples of what not to do...they worry about the stability of the economy...they are discussing subways for the central core...it went on for four hours, but was fun and interesting. I know it wasn't SLC, but I just wanted to report.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Lilljemalm

I just returned from a few days in Denver. Across the street from my old office ther (I lived there for 11 years), is the new state courts building. They did a very good job on it...very nice building. I was sorry to see, however, the streets around my old office get a bit dirty since I left. They need a good scrubbing. People presence, though was very good, but mostly on the other end of downtown in LoDo. The Civic Center end appears to be deteriorating sinc e I left five years ago. I had lunch one day with some old friends, some of whom have influence ther, and they are looking for ideas to prevent deterioration of their central core. I told them to look at the Denver, Seattle and SLC threads to get the ideas of the up and coming. I think it good for cities to look at each other and get ideas of what works and what doesn't, learning from each other and swapping ideas. Here are a few things that came out of our conversations...it may be better to spread out the entertainment a bit so that the people spread out more...high density housing built over high density entertainment results in high turnover in the housing, the biggest complaint from tnrnts being noise from the entertainment businesses...some of those with influence in Denver want to see more retail in downtown...they give SLC's City Creek Center high marks...they wish they had at least a few larger city blocks for new development..my old fat fingers don't type as we'll in this iPad as they do on a regular keyboard...they wish LoDo had more retail and fewer bars...they agreed with me that the city needs to put more into street cleaning...it has become more difficult to attract capital for development and more difficult to attract business to CO the past few months due to the new MJ laws...the suburbs have severely overbuilt commercial space...Broomfield and Westminster are great examples of what not to do...they worry about the stability of the economy...they are discussing subways for the central core...it went on for four hours, but was fun and interesting. I know it wasn't SLC, but I just wanted to report.

We just had a major flame war with Denverites this week amongst a clustercuss of other things. So to keep it civil and focused on SLC development, I'm just gonna ask, from your time being in Denver and talking to your friends, what were some lessons we could apply in Salt Lake City?

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by Old&New

Left to right: 151 South State, CCH on RWP site, 111 South Main.

Alright, my body is ready for this infill!

[s.p.hansen]

They are tearing into the basement of the Prudential Building and pounding lots of steel into the ground in the 111 building area.

[delts145]

I'm curious Lilljemalm how the homeless situation is being handled in Denver. Are they as proactive and having the same success as Salt Lake City, or is it more like San Fran and here in L.A.? Here in Central L.A. we have a terrible problem with homelessness and trash in the streets. Much of the trash problem comes from the overwhelming homeless issue and also many cultures bringing bad habits with them. The city is not aggressive or cohesive enough to deal with these chronic, problematic issues.

Originally Posted by Lilljemalm

I just returned from a few days in Denver. Across the street from my old office ther (I lived there for 11 years), is the new state courts building. They did a very good job on it...very nice building. I was sorry to see, however, the streets around my old office get a bit dirty since I left. They need a good scrubbing. People presence, though was very good, but mostly on the other end of downtown in LoDo. The Civic Center end appears to be deteriorating sinc e I left five years ago. I had lunch one day with some old friends, some of whom have influence ther, and they are looking for ideas to prevent deterioration of their central core. I told them to look at the Denver, Seattle and SLC threads to get the ideas of the up and coming. I think it good for cities to look at each other and get ideas of what works and what doesn't, learning from each other and swapping ideas. Here are a few things that came out of our conversations...it may be better to spread out the entertainment a bit so that the people spread out more...high density housing built over high density entertainment results in high turnover in the housing, the biggest complaint from tnrnts being noise from the entertainment businesses...some of those with influence in Denver want to see more retail in downtown...they give SLC's City Creek Center high marks...they wish they had at least a few larger city blocks for new development..my old fat fingers don't type as we'll in this iPad as they do on a regular keyboard...they wish LoDo had more retail and fewer bars...they agreed with me that the city needs to put more into street cleaning...it has become more difficult to attract capital for development and more difficult to attract business to CO the past few months due to the new MJ laws...the suburbs have severely overbuilt commercial space...Broomfield and Westminster are great examples of what not to do...they worry about the stability of the economy...they are discussing subways for the central core...it went on for four hours, but was fun and interesting. I know it wasn't SLC, but I just wanted to report.

[brankrom]

Anyone know anything about the development going on at Brickyard. I drove by and saw the sign and the big hole and it looked to be a fairly impressive multi family condo. Any info to the developer website?

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by delts145

I'm curious Lilljemalm how the homeless situation is being handled in Denver. Are they as proactive and having the same success as Salt Lake City.

I swear people don't get out around SLC any more and see that the homeless issue is still just as bad as ever. I know there's a PR push saying the church has donated millions for housing but there is permanent homeless camp set up at Gallivan Plaza right next to the Trax and Bike station and has been there for months. Homeless have right to be there but hygiene in the general area is really lacking there are bottles of urine, piles of clothes and blankets, food boxes and a general stench of cigarettes and BO of a dozen or so regulars. Further there's still the panhandling on Main so I don't get all the praise for all but eradicating homelessness in SLC it's more PR than reality. Can we hose down the street every once in a while and provide a place to shower (San Francisco created shower buses from old MUNI buses). And before anyone gives me crap, I had to live in a Ford Pinto for a few weeks as a 8 year old so I get it.

[Old&New]

Left to right: CCH on RWP site, 111 South Main, 151 South State

[UTPlanner]

The development you saw at Brickyard is a multi-family residential development. I don't have a lot of details but it's a project that had been discussed for a few years and finally got all of their ducks in a row.

Someone mentioned the Air Center project and wondered why we haven't discussed it more often as compared to 111 S. Main and the Boyer Office project. I think, at least for me personally, it's because the developer of Air Center is not one that I have seen complete a large project like this. The LDS Church and the Boyer Company both have a long history of large scale office projects. I definitely wish the developers of the Air Center the best and I hope to see a ground breaking soon but I'm not going to hold my breath on this one.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by brankrom

I swear people don't get out around SLC any more and see that the homeless issue is still just as bad as ever. I know there's a PR push saying the church has donated millions for housing but there is permanent homeless camp set up at Gallivan Plaza right next to the Trax and Bike station and has been there for months. Homeless have right to be there but hygiene in the general area is really lacking there are bottles of urine, piles of clothes and blankets, food boxes and a general stench of cigarettes and BO of a dozen or so regulars. Further there's still the panhandling on Main so I don't get all the praise for all but eradicating homelessness in SLC it's more PR than reality. Can we hose down the street every once in a while and provide a place to shower (San Francisco created shower buses from old MUNI buses). And before anyone gives me crap, I had to live in a Ford Pinto for a few weeks as a 8 year old so I get it.

Obviously you don't get out much around the Downtowns/Central Cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco. Comparatively speaking, Central Salt Lake City in general and it's CBD is a walk down Main Street Disney World. Also, the publicity is coming from the newspapers and leaders of other cities, not the LDS Church. No, Salt Lake City is not 100% homeless free and no city ever will be, but compared to what my coworkers and I witness on daily jogs and power walks through the downtown streets and central city neighborhoods of L.A., San Fran. etc., Salt Lake City is pristinely clean to the point of dumbfounding many of those I meet. You tout San Francisco as providing showers, yet it's the San Francisco Chronicle and San Francisco leaders who are begging their decision makers to learn from Salt Lake City. Vast areas of San Francisco are cesspools in comparison to SLC. Salt Lake City is light years ahead of most of the major cities on the West Coast in dealing with the chronically homeless issues, and particularly urban trash and blight.

You talk about a dozen regulars! How about hundreds, even into the thousands of regulars and their encampments literally clogging multiple downtown streets of block after block after block. How about piles of trash scattered throughout the entire neighborhoods surrounding the downtown area. Imagine all of the Avenues and the entire Central City Area-plus from I-80 to the top of Federal Heights, the U. of U. to 600 West. All curbs strewn with discarded food, furniture, trash of every imaginable origin.

In order for me to keep the two sides of the street of my little Central City block clean I really have to work at it. Each and every week I have to twice clean my little block by rolling a large city garbage container behind me, along with a large broom and receptacle, and also a large leaf rake. This in addition to calling the city once a week to pick up discarded furniture, appliances, televisions, etc. I have to do all of this even though the city sends large truck mounted machinery to every street once a week to sweep up. This is crazy considering my block is not an urban street packed with ten-plus story apartment buildings. My street has only grand old historic homes on it. I'm not even beginning to describe the squaller that is happening in much of Central and additional vast areas of Los Angeles and much of Central San Francisco.


Now, getting back to the original question directed toward Lilljemalm, who understands both Denver and Salt Lake City intimately...

I'm curious Lilljemalm how the homeless situation is being handled in Denver. Are they as proactive and having the same success as Salt Lake City, or is it more like San Fran and here in L.A.? Here in Central L.A. we have a terrible problem with homelessness and trash in the streets. Much of the trash problem comes from the overwhelming homeless issue and also many cultures bringing bad habits with them. The city is not aggressive or cohesive enough to deal with these chronic, problematic issues.



.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by delts145

I'm curious Lilljemalm how the homeless situation is being handled in Denver. Are they as proactive and having the same success as Salt Lake City, or is it more like San Fran and here in L.A.? Here in Central L.A. we have a terrible problem with homelessness and trash in the streets. Much of the trash problem comes from certain cultures bringing bad habits with them, and the city not being politically aggressive or cohesive enough to deal with the problematic issues.

Denver is doing some of the same things that SLC is doing in terms of providing subsidized housing units for the homeless, shelters, increased services, etc. This has been largely under the guidance of Denver's Road Home (Link) and the 10-Year Plan to End Homelessness (now in Year Nine). SLC seems to have had better success with the housing plan than Denver, though Denver has added nearly 3,000 new residential units for at-risk and chronically homeless.

The chronic homeless situation remains the problem and a couple of recent developments has been to add the capability at one shelter to increase the hours the facility is open, adding more police officers and training for officers to deal with the chronically homeless, and continuing to find funding and a site for a 24-hour rest and resource facility for the homeless.

[brankrom]

Originally Posted by delts145

Obviously you don't get out much around the Downtowns/Central Cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco. Comparatively speaking, Central Salt Lake City in general and it's CBD is a walk down Main Street Disney World. Also, the publicity is coming from the newspapers and leaders of other cities, not the LDS Church. No, Salt Lake City is not 100% homeless free and no city ever will be, but compared to what my coworkers and I witness on daily jogs and power walks through the downtown streets and central city neighborhoods of L.A., San Fran. etc., Salt Lake City is pristinely clean to the point of dumbfounding many of those I meet. You tout San Francisco as providing showers, yet it's the San Francisco Chronicle and San Francisco leaders who are begging their decision makers to learn from Salt Lake City. Vast areas of San Francisco are cesspools in comparison to SLC. Salt Lake City is light years ahead of most of the major cities on the West Coast in dealing with the chronically homeless issues, and particularly urban trash and blight.

You talk about a dozen regulars! How about hundreds, even into the thousands of regulars and their encampments literally clogging multiple downtown streets of block after block after block. How about piles of trash scattered throughout the entire neighborhoods surrounding the downtown area. Imagine all of the Avenues and the entire Central City Area-plus from I-80 to the top of Federal Heights, the U. of U. to 600 West. All curbs strewn with discarded food, furniture, trash of every imaginable origin.

In order for me to keep the two sides of the street of my little Central City block clean I really have to work at it. Each and every week I have to twice clean my little block by rolling a large city garbage container behind me, along with a large broom and receptacle, and also a large leaf rake. This in addition to calling the city once a week to pick up discarded furniture, appliances, televisions, etc. I have to do all of this even though the city sends large truck mounted machinery to every street once a week to sweep up. This is crazy considering my block is not an urban street packed with ten-plus story apartment buildings. My street has only grand old historic homes on it. I'm not even beginning to describe the squaller that is happening in much of Central and additional vast areas of Los Angeles and much of Central San Francisco.


Now, getting back to the original question directed toward Lilljemalm, who understands both Denver and Salt Lake City intimately...

I'm curious Lilljemalm how the homeless situation is being handled in Denver. Are they as proactive and having the same success as Salt Lake City, or is it more like San Fran and here in L.A.? Here in Central L.A. we have a terrible problem with homelessness and trash in the streets. Much of the trash problem comes from the overwhelming homeless issue and also many cultures bringing bad habits with them. The city is not aggressive or cohesive enough to deal with these chronic, problematic issues.

.

I travel extensively to other urban areas, I grew up in the Bay Area and am intimately aware of conditions in San Francisco and Los Angeles. When I tour visit the cities on vacation I don't rent a car I'm out on transit and walking and being around the people who live there. I've seen UN PLaza and the Tenderloin and Bay View in SF. I spent 6 days walking Los Angeles and using transit there. I know the stench of urine in the subway elevators at Pershing Square. I spent a week in Chicago in March doing the same. Is it too much to ask to have the sidewalk in the central business district be washed and sanitized occasionally, and is it too much to ask to not have urine saved in bottles lined up like Howard Hughes? Other cities like San Francisco and Denver sidewalks are sanitized at least weekly. Not SLC.

Just because SLC isn't as bad as the areas you've outlined doesn't mean SLC has it licked. Boots on the street tell me that Pioneer Park, Gallivan, the parking garage at Courthouse, Warm Springs Park, Carls Jr. the Jordan Parkway all look exactly like they have for years. I'm a hot springs nut and when I'm not traveling to large urban cities I'm searching out hot springs. I make a point of cleaning the refuse up at Warm Springs Park every time I go there because I think places of natural resources like that should be treated as a community asset and not a liability (took out 6 large bags in May and its about time to hit it again). But I'll say those non existent homeless people that SLC and the philanthropy of the LDS church have housed are pretty messy. The head of the project is a former church PR employee, I don't think its a real stretch to allege the PR department might have pushed the story to San Francisco. With all the bad PR regarding throwing people out, criticism and prop H8 a bit of positive PR can't hurt. Notwithstanding little, if anything, has really changed.

I'm appreciative of what the church is doing and has done, that is what churches are supposed to do. Just saying that it "ain't all that" either. To the contrary I'd like to see the church expand the program to other cities instead of focusing on business and real estate development ventures for the wealthy.

[mrawesome]

Quote wasn't working right. Original post is now a few posts below this.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by mrawesome

Delts, I may not be lilljemalm and I may not know denver intimately, but, I was there about a week ago, for a week. First off, I thought that there were more panhandlers but that may be just because it is a larger city. Secondly, I went down 16th street a lot during my visit. The street it's self was clean and nice but every time you walked by an alley, you would be overwhelmed by the smell of urine or of something else nasty. Lastly, I went down the south platte river walk by the downtown aquarium and was kind of grossed out by how much homeless litter there was.

So, from my point of view, I think that salt lake is doing a better job handling the homeless situation. However, both cities could be doing better.

Just out of curiosity, where do you guys shove your homeless? Are the shelters and facilities located in downtown SLC or are they located a bit further off where the homeless can be kept out of sight? In Denver the shelters are located downtown (about six blocks off of the 16th St Mall) and that contributes to homelessness being more visible.

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Just out of curiosity, where do you guys shove your homeless? Are the shelters and facilities located in downtown SLC or are they located a bit further off where the homeless can be kept out of sight? In Denver the shelters are located downtown (about six blocks off of the 16th St Mall) and that contributes to homelessness being more visible.

Our homeless facilities are somewhat present in the depot district around southern 4th west and areas like pioneer park (which has become the worst park in the state because of how run down it is). Homeless people just tend to hang out in a lot of places though (Civic campus, especially in the library atrium tables, computers, and bathrooms in the basement and also Washington square, CCC on Main Street under the sky bridge, gallivan in the metal cube sculptures between the Olympic Legacy Plaza and NB Main Street, Courthouse TRAX, Library TRAX, Pioneer park especially, and anything near the park on W University and the homeless shelter by Old GreekTown TRAX on 2nd/5th ) but the city is trying to do a good job keeping the homeless population out of these public spaces which our generally conservative population doesn't like visiting as a result of the homeless population and in to long term permanent housing.

[mrawesome]

Originally Posted by delts145

Now, getting back to the original question directed toward Lilljemalm, who understands both Denver and Salt Lake City intimately...

I'm curious Lilljemalm how the homeless situation is being handled in Denver. Are they as proactive and having the same success as Salt Lake City, or is it more like San Fran and here in L.A.? Here in Central L.A. we have a terrible problem with homelessness and trash in the streets. Much of the trash problem comes from the overwhelming homeless issue and also many cultures bringing bad habits with them. The city is not aggressive or cohesive enough to deal with these chronic, problematic issues.



.

Delts, I may not be lilljemalm and I may not know denver intimately, but, I was there about a week ago, for a week. First off, I thought that there were more panhandlers but that may be just because it is a larger city. Secondly, I went down 16th street a lot during my visit. The street it's self was clean and nice but every time you walked by an alley, you would be overwhelmed by the smell of urine or of something else nasty. Lastly, I went down the south platte river walk by the downtown aquarium and was kind of grossed out by how much homeless litter there was.

So, from my point of view, I think that salt lake is doing a better job handling the homeless situation. However, both cities could be doing better.

[PLANSIT]

Denver's homelessness problem is much greater than SLC's (CO has about 3X homeless pop. as UT). And while much effort (as Wong mentioned) has gone into a solution, we have a long way to go. I encourage folks to check out HUD's 2013 Annual Homeless Assessment Report (AHAR) to Congress.

For reference, in 2013, Denver had a homeless population of 6,316 (10th nationally). I couldn't find a specific SLC number. Will keep looking.

[s.p.hansen]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Denver's homelessness problem is much greater than SLC's (CO has about 3X homeless pop. as UT). And while much effort (as Wong mentioned) has gone into a solution, we have a long way to go. I encourage folks to check out HUD's 2013 Annual Homeless Assessment Report (AHAR) to Congress.

For reference, in 2013, Denver had a homeless population of 6,316 (10th nationally). I couldn't find a specific SLC number. Will keep looking.

Pretty much the city has just focused on doing housing for our homeless. We have the same transients but chronic homelessness is down. Phoenix and Salt Lake City have mostly focused on eliminating homeless veterans.

[mrawesome]

Originally Posted by s.p.hansen

They are tearing into the basement of the Prudential Building and pounding lots of steel into the ground in the 111 building area.

Great update!

Is the white structure by Main Street the base of the crane? If not, what is it?