Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[bardak]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i don't know about that. i don't think 3-2-3 is enough to make the bridge future proof really. SOF really is expanding a lot and i don't think traffic will get much better. this new bridge will have to be a relief of the AFB. if they want a bridge to make this bridge last 75-100yrs i think it needs to be 4-2-4.

i am hoping they make the bus lanes the inside lanes throughout the entire freeway with dedicated overpasses/ramps. it would be the best way i think to give transit a better foothold in that area. quick connections = more users.

I think the general consensus is that the new bridge will be tolled and I think that will put enough downwards pressure to compensate for the lack of extra lanes. I think they probably could get away with 2 HOV lanes instead of bus only as well.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by bardak

I think the general consensus is that the new bridge will be tolled and I think that will put enough downwards pressure to compensate for the lack of extra lanes. I think they probably could get away with 2 HOV lanes instead of bus only as well.

There's still a lot of development happening in the catchment region though. I think it should have 4 general lanes each way as well. But I agree with you that HOV lanes as opposed to bus lanes would be fine. The HOV is always free anyway, and I've never had any real delays taking the bus through the tunnel.

[Metro-One]

I have had delays on buses going through the tunnel...

Anyways, if you were to go the 4X2X4 route, then it would have to be 3 general, 1 HOV, and 1 Bus Only lane in each direction.

I don't see the need for more than 3 lanes of general through traffic.

The Port Mann works well with only having 2 general traffic through lanes, 1 HOV / Bus lane, and 2 CD lanes each way.

And with the increased population south of the river will become increased bus use (hopefully) therefore making the need for a bus only lane even more important. Not to mention that a Rapid Bus along the entire corridor should be part of this project (centre lanes of course) and therefore once again reinforcing the Bus Only lanes.

In fact, as I type this, 1 HOV, 3 general, and 1 Bus Only seems like a really good way to go for the bridge given the major interchanges at its landings. The rest of the corridor would be fine with 2 general, 1 HOV, and 1 Bus Only in each direction.

And again, I feel so alone in my approach to highways and transit in Vancouver. I do believe in having a strong freeway network, but I also believe in building it to a realistic size, not an ultra America freeway bonanza size. I also support funding all the mass transit initiatives as well (skytrain and rapid bus baby). So I get no support from the typical "all freeways are evil" crowd, which live in la la land, and I get no support from the "lets build every highway 15 lanes wide at 130 km / h operating speeds" crowd, who also live in la la land...

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I have had delays on buses going through the tunnel...

Anyways, if you were to go the 4X2X4 route, then it would have to be 3 general, 1 HOV, and 1 Bus Only lane in each direction.

I don't see the need for more than 3 lanes of general through traffic.

The Port Mann works well with only having 2 general traffic through lanes, 1 HOV / Bus lane, and 2 CD lanes each way.

And with the increased population south of the river will become increased bus use (hopefully) therefore making the need for a bus only lane even more important. Not to mention that a Rapid Bus along the entire corridor should be part of this project (centre lanes of course) and therefore once again reinforcing the Bus Only lanes.

In fact, as I type this, 1 HOV, 3 general, and 1 Bus Only seems like a really good way to go for the bridge given the major interchanges at its landings. The rest of the corridor would be fine with 2 general, 1 HOV, and 1 Bus Only in each direction.

Interesting. I've had just a couple short ones going north, but in general the HOV is smooth sailing. The real delays happen on Steveston Highway when everyone's backed up into Richmond. Highway 99 however in a bus has always been a breeze for me, going either way.

[Metro-One]

I found the delays much worse going southbound than northbound. I missed a ferry once because of it.

To add on to my comment above, I do get annoyed at how polarized Vancouverites are on infrastructure.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I found the delays much worse going southbound than northbound. I missed a ferry once because of it.

To add on to my comment above, I do get annoyed at how polarized Vancouverites are on infrastructure.

Wow, that —. If anything I've always thought of it as opposite, including in a car. I'll add that it's gotten much better now too since the opening of the South Fraser Perimeter Road.

What do you mean? I'd say that the way people are discussing the amount of lanes on this project isn't really all that heated, or different for that matter.

[trofirhen]

Is the idea of 3x2x2x3, with 2 HOV / bus lanes AND two lanes reserved for eventual future rrt, be an idea, or not?
People talk about making the structure "future-proof." For me, this would include the capacity for rapid rail, given that the southern suburbs may one day evolve
into clusters of high-density residential buildings, whose populations might not only benefit from, but also require rrt.

[libtard]

They're not going to build a separate lane for buses AND an HOV lane

What happened to all the people advocating for a "trucks only" lane? Reality finally hit?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is the idea of 3x2x2x3, with 2 HOV / bus lanes AND two lanes reserved for eventual future rrt, be an idea, or not?
People talk about making the structure "future-proof." For me, this would include the capacity for rapid rail, given that the southern suburbs may one day evolve
into clusters of high-density residential buildings, whose populations might not only benefit from, but also require rrt.

I guarantee you, you will never, ever, ever see high density in the southern suburbs. I live here. People fight anything that isn't a single family house unless it's on Ladner Trunk Road or 56 Street. Hell, sometimes they'll even fight single family houses, like in Southlands.

[Genauso]

CBC: SUV crash with TransLink bus closes George Massey Tunnel northbound
One man taken to hospital with serious injuries, multiple TransLink buses rerouted

Hopefully the tunnel didn't spring a leak

DriveBC Highway Cam listing for George Massey Tunnel

Northbound tunnel (+associated highway) is closed and now vacated. Southbound traffic is a 3 lane parking lot at least north to Westminster Hwy.

It's a 20km detour to take the Alex Fraser bridge / Hwy 91 and then get back onto Hwy 99, it's times like these I would rather some more priority be placed on building a resilient road network. Being able to adapt when 2 bridges are closed is a pretty valuable feature in an earthquake zone.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Genauso

CBC: SUV crash with TransLink bus closes George Massey Tunnel northbound
One man taken to hospital with serious injuries, multiple TransLink buses rerouted

Hopefully the tunnel didn't spring a leak

DriveBC Highway Cam listing for George Massey Tunnel

Northbound tunnel (+associated highway) is closed and now vacated. Southbound traffic is a 3 lane parking lot at least north to Westminster Hwy.

It's a 20km detour to take the Alex Fraser bridge / Hwy 91 and then get back onto Hwy 99, it's times like these I would rather some more priority be placed on building a resilient road network. Being able to adapt when 2 bridges are closed is a pretty valuable feature in an earthquake zone.

Love how the news report says the accident happened on the north side when the image is of the south side

I noticed based on google maps that most people seem to be going up river road over to the alex fraser. Personally i would gone west on 17A to ladner trunk rd. Then along hwy 10 to 91 and then north.

[Stingray2004]

That's not the accident scene! Perhaps a peripheral one or something else? The actual accident happened within the tunnel itself.

BTW, here's some raw footage of same right after the accident within the tunnel:

http://globalnews.ca/video/1433752/raw-massey-tunnel-crash-footage-2

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by Stingray2004

That's not the accident scene! Perhaps a peripheral one or something else? The actual accident happened within the tunnel itself.

BTW, here's some raw footage of same right after the accident within the tunnel:

http://globalnews.ca/video/1433752/raw-massey-tunnel-crash-footage-2

Ahh thanks. Makes sense now. Thanks for the video.

[GMasterAres]

The only reason that there are delays with buses through the Tunnel is that the bus only/HOV lane merges with general traffic through the tunnel. On a bridge where there is a dedicated HOV lane from King George to Bridgeport, there would be absolutely no bus delays even if it was just an HOV lane.

I am fairly certain though it will be a regular HOV lane and they will move it to the center from the outside as the tunnel replacement is not just a replacement but like Gateway did for HWY1 will involve a revamp of all of HWY99 including things like replaced interchanges at KGB, 32nd, and Steveston. I think 2+1 would be ok though I'd prefer just for lane consolidation considerations having the bridge end up being 3+1 so 8 lanes total. It is our major link to the US border and well over 50% of the region's industrial land. If HWY1 can become 3+1, 99 is the only other highway that I think should be 3+1 also.

4+1 I do think is overkill but I wouldn't cry a river if it was done since I'm sure cost considerations would be negligible in the grand scheme of things seeing as the bridge is still going to have to be fairly beefy given how high it has to be for ships to pass under.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by cabotp

Love how the news report says the accident happened on the north side when the image is of the south side

I noticed based on google maps that most people seem to be going up river road over to the alex fraser. Personally i would gone west on 17A to ladner trunk rd. Then along hwy 10 to 91 and then north.

HWY10 at that time especially with a spike in traffic backs up a good 20 minutes through the lights a the overpass with HWY99. Not to mention you then get stuck in the 20 minute line to get through the lights at 72nd on HWY91. River Road to SFPR is by far the best alternative these days to get onto the Alex Fraser.

From where people were being diverted by the Police, the only choice was River Road seeing as traffic heading Southbound over 17A was backed up really far due to everyone being stuck trying to get into the tunnel.

[Steveston]

I was on the Deas Slough Bridge when the accident happened, and NB traffic came to an immediate stop. After about 10 minutes, emergency vehicles went north in the SB counterflow lane to the accident scene. After about 30 minutes, cars in the NB lane started bailing and turned around heading SB on the counterflow lane. After 50 minutes, a cop came by and told me and three other riders to go over the tunnel, using the road on the right, and come around and merge with the SB traffic.

I took the SFPR, and was going fine until I approached the Nordel intersection, when it became slow & go all the way to the Alex Fraser on ramp. Then, smooth going on the bridge, but then slow traffic at the 91/91A split all the way on 91 WB to Shell Road (and saw 91 EB backed up all the way to the 99 overpass).

A 35 minute commute turned into a 2hr 40 minute ordeal. But still, if I was about 1 minute faster on 99, I could have been caught right in the middle of that collision!

[makr3trkr]

Some photos from that head-on the other week:

from globalnews.ca








from cbc.ca






from news1130.com


===

bonus simultaneous roll over on SFPR:

[Genauso]

I was thinking about the new highway speed limit increases in light of the recent local increases, and regional population growth where Vancouver-Seattle might be as big as Los Angeles of today in population (and size for that matter) in a couple decades.

It occurred to me that potentially the greatest value from increased speed limits might be the highway between Vancouver and Seattle.

They are ~240km apart airport to airport.
They are each other's nearest large neighbour.
They are too close for trips to be faster by air, or to be cheaper by sea/rail.
The terrain is flat.
It would benefit both when outsiders are looking to place a hub within the larger region, or planning a vacation.
There are many sectors for residents of each city to cooperate more with each other, and many complementary services/experiences you can only together in a much larger market.

Bringing a distinct city closer is a different game shaving time off regular commutes.

Speed limits vary between ~90-120km/h? today, and could feasibly increase to 160km/h in good weather.

As part of the George Massey replacement, wouldn't it be cool if both governments committed to guaranteeing 30 minute or less border wait times 99% of the time and to upgrade HWY99/I5 to 160km/h and 100mph?

With a 240km distance, on the high side for most, that's a 90 minute trip plus border interruption.

Even 120km/h and 75mph, that becomes 2 hours travel plus border time.

If there is a trucker shuttling between the two, those extra trips per day would make a big difference fast.

[connect2source]

Regarding the 'head-on' in the tunnel, I boggles the mind that any jurisdiction would allow on-coming highway-speed traffic in a tube with no pull outs or shoulders of any kind. I cannot believe they're haven't been more deaths. This configuration is 'third-world' and should never have been allowed!!

I only hope the bridge in completed before hundreds die in a fiery multi-car head-on. I fear every-time I drive in the counter-flow which I typically avoid. I've never witnessed anything similar in the many countries I've visited and driven both here and in Europe.

[WarrenC12]

So the final result of "public consultation" is now an 8 lane bridge? Did this get buried in the news?

http://cityhallwatch.wordpress.com/2014/...eorge-massey-tunnel-replacement-project/