DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[DenverPoke]

Originally Posted by enjo13

I know that they basically need a new build to make it work, but nothing beyond that.

Ya I figured it would be something similar to the one in Seattle, which is fine by me. I honestly can't believe one hasn't been announced/started yet, seems like such a no-brainer.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by denverryan

Is anyone aware of a larger version of this rendering of the Union Station Neighborhood from the latest 5280 Magazine? It is printed in high resolution in the magazine itself, so presumably there is a very high quality version floating around somewhere.


(Source: 5280 Magazine: All Aboard Denver's Union Station)

Both the printed version of 5280 and the current web version have one of the buildings mislabeled (they are saying #12 is the Triangle Building), but I still thought this was a nice updated rendering that shows much more accurately what the station area might be like once it is built out. I love seeing now-familiar Cadence and the Platform alongside some hypothetical renderings — especially #11, the Platform's sister building.

That has been posted here before but I can't remember if it was of higher resolution. Anyway, it might be a bit OCD of me, but the fact that the scale is so far off in terms of how large those buildings are, relative to each other, drives me crazy to the point where I don't even like to look to that rendering.

Maybe if I squint?

Nope. Still bugs me.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

That has been posted here before but I can't remember if it was of higher resolution. Anyway, it might be a bit OCD of me, but the fact that the scale is so far off in terms of how large those buildings are, relative to each other, drives me crazy to the point where I don't even like to look to that rendering.

Maybe if I squint?

Nope. Still bugs me.

The numbering is off too. 12 is placed on the wrong building:

1. One Union Station: office space and restaurants; 2. Site of the “Dancing Waters” fountain; 3. The Crawford Hotel; 4. The main station; 5. Office space, including IMA headquarters and the Piton Foundation; 6. Office space, including Continuum Partners, and retail; 7. Commuter rail terminal; 8. Kimpton Hotel; 9. The Platform at Union Station, a 21-story residential building; 10. Wewatta Pavilion; 11. Future location of East West Partners development project; 12. The Triangle Building: office and retail space; 13. Cadence Union Station apartments; 14. Future location of Starwood Capital Group and East West Partners project; 15. Future site of Holland Partner Group residential building

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

That has been posted here before but I can't remember if it was of higher resolution. Anyway, it might be a bit OCD of me, but the fact that the scale is so far off in terms of how large those buildings are, relative to each other, drives me crazy to the point where I don't even like to look to that rendering.

Maybe if I squint?

Nope. Still bugs me.

Which buildings are off? It all looks relatively correct to me?

[trace™]

Originally Posted by Sam Hill

That has been posted here before but I can't remember if it was of higher resolution. Anyway, it might be a bit OCD of me, but the fact that the scale is so far off in terms of how large those buildings are, relative to each other, drives me crazy to the point where I don't even like to look to that rendering.

Maybe if I squint?

Nope. Still bugs me.

The problem largely stems from so many apartment developments. Cost and number largely dictate the size/scale of the buildings (see all the smaller buildings closer to 20th, the cancelled Glass Towers II, etc.). Each developer is going off of their own assumptions, hence the discrepancies in size of buildings. Ultimately, it is a race to the finish with so many coming online at the same time.

[trace™]

Originally Posted by enjo13

Which buildings are off? It all looks relatively correct to me?

I think he was referring to the large variety of development sizes, not the actual rendering. The rendering is correct, but it does look very different (in terms of building relationships to each other) compared to the very early schematic renderings where everything was nicely symmetrical centered around 15th).

[DenverInfill]

Those early renderings were just massing models showing the allowable building envelopes, which are rarely maximized.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by enjo13

Which buildings are off? It all looks relatively correct to me?

#12 is not the Triangle building. That is 1900 16th.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

#12 is not the Triangle building. That is 1900 16th.

I get the mislabeling issue, but the actual renderings look correct to me. As in they are all the right size and in the right spot.

[acw007]

There's something funky going on with the scaling of a few buildings. According to denver cityscape cadence is 180 ft tall and the triangle building will be 150ft tall. In that rendering the triangle building looks to be a good 200ft tall.

[Sam Hill]

Originally Posted by enjo13

Which buildings are off? It all looks relatively correct to me?

The Triangle Building looks massive and appears to be almost as tall as The Platform. Also, building #12 looks like it’s 100 feet taller than The Platform when they should be about the same height. I don’t know. The whole thing just looks off to me. But don’t mind me; I’m just being OCD.

(Also, just for the record, I don’t expect anything out of this rendering. I’m not sure who made it or what specific purpose it originally had, but I appreciate the fact that somebody somewhere photoshop'd all these renderings together to give an idea of what the neighborhood will look like.)

[denconyny]

Originally Posted by denverryan

especially #11, the Platform's sister building.

I'm curious about this building as well. It looks as if it will be some sort of galleria or such, yes? If so, I would think that this could be an excellent spot for some DT Denver retail, and possibly get that "Target" in there that it seems that everyone DT seems to want, as well as, well...... maybe this could also be a better location in Denver for a Saks Fifth Avenue (since Cherry Creek didn't work out for them, maybe here DT would work?) or other such upscale outlets, as well as normal scale stores like a Target? Since the DT area basically lacks retail (especially when compared to the Cherry Creek area, which is the #1 tourist draw in Denver proper) could this be a building space (or a huge upward, rather than outward shopping mall) where significant retail would be present?

Anyways, all sorts of questions started within me as I thought about this building. It probably could have (and be) an awesome shopping location right in the middle of all of the transit, satisfy some need for retail DT, as well as even maybe give the Cherry Creek area some competition. Is this along the lines of what is planned on that block?

[mhays]

I'd imagine that LoDo and the 16th Street Mall are the top two tourist destinations.

Counting methods vary tremendously. A mall will often count "visitors," which might be 95% locals, including the same people x100 per year, and they have every incentive to overestimate. A paid attraction will tend to be accurate since its marketing wants to jibe with tax collections and/or its annual report. A street is hard to count (pedestrian counts? anyone with a credit charge? only out-of-staters?) and doesn't necessarily attempt to parallel the mall. So I always take these counts with a grain of salt.

Likewise, Cherry Creek might draw from a regional radius as the best shopping in the mountain states and western plains (maybe Downtown SLC would argue?) but I bet 16th and LoDo are known to way more people over 500 miles away.

[comoneymaker]

Just saying even with all those recently completed hotels we are still at 99% occupancy right now. The other 800 rooms won't do much of a dent. I have a friend coming in from Cali in a few weeks and she said it was tuff even getting a flight in. Had to pay more than 2x more than normal. If this occupancy stays this high through the summer and we can keep it above 80% in the winter then there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get one of these...



It is all wishful thinking though.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

I agree.

Of course, there are at least two sides this, the second being is that our colloquialism adds to Denver's natural beauty through it's charm. And, IMO, this DOES add a lot to the City.

I think Denver needs to proud of it's quirkiness.

Interesting expose, much of which I agree with. Since downtown is the blog focus, it also has its own unique character and intimacy. Consider the western semi-circle edge. From Union Station to Riverfront and parks, Elitch Gardens and the Pepsi Center, Auraria, South Santa Fe to the Civic Center, all which make for a fun and interesting variety to downtown's persona.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

Just saying even with all those recently completed hotels we are still at 99% occupancy right now. The other 800 rooms won't do much of a dent. I have a friend coming in from Cali in a few weeks and she said it was tuff even getting a flight in. Had to pay more than 2x more than normal. If this occupancy stays this high through the summer and we can keep it above 80% in the winter then there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to get one of these...
It is all wishful thinking though.

I don't doubt as has been discussed that Denver could use a 2nd anchor convention hotel and that Hilton is a dandy.

Question for your downtowners: I just realized that my Google Street View is from July 2011. On the north side of California Street just across from the convention center on either side of Bubba Gump Shrimp Co, are there not still parking lots?


That's a bummer about your friend having to pay up for airfare. I know that last year passenger counts at DIA were rather meh as Frontier (primarily) cut back on flights. I usually try to track DIA's passenger count and last year they didn't grow like most cities. Dallas and Miami come to mind. Seems like the airport has had a couple of good months this year so a positive trend is a good thing of course.

[comoneymaker]

I think we just got to wait for numbers to come out. Today I pulled up at stop light and Colorado and Mississippi and it was Texas Texas North Dakota New Mexico and Penn license plates. I was the only Colorado. Something has to give.

Also I had a lady ask me about where she can get some pot. All the stores where closed and she had driven in from CO Springs with her friend from Oregon who just wanted to legally buy some pot. Are there no pot shops in the Springs ?

[bobg]

Originally Posted by comoneymaker

I think we just got to wait for numbers to come out. Today I pulled up at stop light and Colorado and Mississippi and it was Texas Texas North Dakota New Mexico and Penn license plates. I was the only Colorado. Something has to give.

Also I had a lady ask me about where she can get some pot. All the stores where closed and she had driven in from CO Springs with her friend from Oregon who just wanted to legally buy some pot. Are there no pot shops in the Springs ?

COS has a moratorium on recreational dispensaries (has a plethora of medicinal). I think they are voting on lifting the moratorium in COS but I think that got delayed due to budget concerns with the ballot -which shocks all of us familiar with COS politics I am sure-. I believe they are holding off on that vote until they can piggy back it onto something else. Right now there's zero recreational dispensaries along the front range corridor between Pueblo and Denver due to cities/counties opting out, although Manitou Springs will change that soon.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bobg

COS has a moratorium on recreational dispensaries (has a plethora of medicinal). I think they are voting on lifting the moratorium in COS but I think that got delayed due to budget concerns with the ballot -which shocks all of us familiar with COS politics I am sure-. I believe they are holding off on that vote until they can piggy back it onto something else. Right now there's zero recreational dispensaries along the front range corridor between Pueblo and Denver due to cities/counties opting out, although Manitou Springs will change that soon.

And it's not like people want to go to Pueblo for pot. Meth and cash for food stamps? Sure. But pot's a little too high end for 'ol Pueblo.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I just realized that my Google Street View is from July 2011. On the north side of California Street just across from the convention center on either side of Bubba Gump Shrimp Co, are there not still parking lots?

Yep nothing has changed on those lots. There is still a very juicy parking lot right behind the Spire as well.