PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[acenturi]

With all that's going on in real SKYSCRAPER construction, do we really need to continue on with this endless somewhat egotistically centered discussion on which casino should be selected and why Philly is lacking in high end late night venues and shopping for the wealthy???? I'd love to post some UN-negadelphia comments, but it'd just prolong the agony. Folks, please don't turn this quality Forum into another "City-Data".

[philatonian]

Originally Posted by summersm343

More on the hotel proposal

Would be 11 floors.

The Planning commission did not outright deny any chance of this happening, just denied the design and plan. The developer can reevaluate the plan and come back to the planning commission.

http://planphilly.com/articles/2014/06/2...cts-concept-for-warner-brothers-building

Buy the block next door and go for 20 floors. I'm across the street and the evening sun boils my house. I welcome the shadows. I couldn't care less about the existing building. It looks like South Beach without everything that makes South Beach architecture interesting.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Think about it. Create a real list of late night activities targeted towards a wealthier crowd that I can do in Philly with my clients who are trusting us with millions and hundreds of millions of dollars. Start listing specific examples. You are going to quickly begin to realize, the options are few and far between especially once you take all the restaurants and museums off the list. Sadly, the only VIP club area for the higher crowds is upstairs at Delilahs. That's about all Philly has. Think about it.

If there was a Venn Diagram of your clients along with Douches, it sounds like they would be entirely co-terminal.

I'm not sure what you think makes wealthy people so different than other people, but they like to do the same things that everyone else does (go to nice bars/restaurants/shows). Just the fact that Delilah's is the only place that meets your expectation means that you have very different ideas of what is "nice" compared to the rest of us.

So you send your clients to a titty bar in a strip mall in North Philadelphia bc that's the only thing you can think to have them do while in town.

Mmmkay.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

The entire Provence concept is centered around people being to drive off 676 and straight into parking garages/valet so the people aren't going to be walking around that area right now.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason why Market 8 might be more Successful than the other casinos is precisely because it WON'T rely on the drive-in/up market? That it is accessible via regional rail and mass transit and walking tourists and Center City-ites?

EVERY existing casino has used your logic as justification for location/placement. That market/demographic is well served.

While I agree that the market is saturated, if it could absorb another license, I think it could only do so if it relied upon a different model. Market 8 is the only proposal that offers something different.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Did it ever occur to you that the reason why Market 8 might be more Successful than the other casinos is precisely because it WON'T rely on the drive-in/up market? That it is accessible via regional rail and mass transit and walking tourists and Center City-ites?

EVERY existing casino has used your logic as justification for location/placement. That market/demographic is well served.

While I agree that the market is saturated, if it could absorb another license, I think it could only do so if it relied upon a different model. Market 8 is the only proposal that offers something different.

In all fairness, that approach (to be accessible almost solely by mass transit) didn't work so well for the Gallery, did it?

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

If there was a Venn Diagram of your clients along with Douches, it sounds like they would be entirely co-terminal.

I'm not sure what you think makes wealthy people so different than other people, but they like to do the same things that everyone else does (go to nice bars/restaurants/shows). Just the fact that Delilah's is the only place that meets your expectation means that you have very different ideas of what is "nice" compared to the rest of us.

So you send your clients to a titty bar in a strip mall in North Philadelphia bc that's the only thing you can think to have them do while in town.

Mmmkay.

This conversation is done. Your posts are exactly why this thread is becoming trash. A decade ago this board had discussions like this without losers like you ruining the thread. Please go away -- you bring no value to this thread.

My entire point is that there are few options to entertain wealthy individuals outside of museums and some restaurants. I gave an example of Delilahs to show just how terrible the options are outside of restaurants. If you want to believe that wealthy Americans are just like you and I then feel free to think that -- but I know they have different needs and expectations and that is a generally accepted principal of the private banking / high net wealth industry. This debate is exactly why Philly will never be able to compete against DC, NYC, Boston, etc. But continue to live in your fantasy where you think you are an expert and always right.

End of debate. I'm not responding to your pathetic opinions anymore.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by McBane

In all fairness, that approach (to be accessible almost solely by mass transit) didn't work so well for the Gallery, did it?

Just ignore him. He doesn't understand that wealthy and higher end clients aren't going to take public transit. His opinions are irrelevant. I've yet to see a comment from him on this forum that adds any sort of value.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

This conversation is done. Your posts are exactly why this thread is becoming trash. A decade ago this board had discussions like this without losers like you ruining the thread. Please go away -- you bring no value to this thread.

My entire point is that there are few options to entertain wealthy individuals outside of museums and some restaurants. I gave an example of Delilahs to show just how terrible the options are outside of restaurants. If you want to believe that wealthy Americans are just like you and I then feel free to think that -- but I know they have different needs and expectations and that is a generally accepted principal of the private banking / high net wealth industry. This debate is exactly why Philly will never be able to compete against DC, NYC, Boston, etc. But continue to live in your fantasy where you think you are an expert and always right.

End of debate. I'm not responding to your pathetic opinions anymore.

I'm intrigued by this line of thinking. You keep saying no one else knows what wealthy clients want and you do. And you say Philly doesn't have it, but NYC, Boston, DC do. But you haven't given an example of what kind of activities you're talking about? Are we talking late night cabarets? High end clubs? Shows? Can you give some examples of things that your clients would do if they were in NYC, for example? Like specific examples?

And I'm not trying to be facetious. I'm genuinely confused about what types of activities you're referring to. Your reference to Delilah's threw me for a loop as well.

[PhiLaw]

There was a $30 million federal grant announced to rebuild the Norris Apartments near Temple. Hope they don't build the faux-suburban housing projects we've been accustomed to.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

There was a $30 million federal grant announced to rebuild the Norris Apartments near Temple. Hope they don't build the faux-suburban housing projects we've been accustomed to.

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. But it should improve the area.

[Skyscraper.Phanatic]

RE: ScreamShatter and Blatstein Casino proposal. - S.S. it sounds like you either work for Bart or have a financial interest in that project. I said it before, it is a terrible location on top of the I-676 ramps to clog traffic. It is egregiously wishful thinking and will make the meltdown in a.c. look like childs play. Market 8 is the lesser of 2 evils and will not have to be imploded by a wrecking crew in 2-3 years for public safety and lack of business. Sorry if the truth hurts your feelings. I'M BACK FOLKS!!

[Insoluble]

Alright folks. There's tons of ACTUAL development going on in the city right now. A separate thread has been created for digressions such as this debate about which of the two Center City casino proposals is better than the other etc.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=6637517

[techchallenger]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

Got to be Cordish. Fast, cheap, cheesy project in a cheesy location, perfect for a cheesy business designed to profit off of a year round supply of captive, cheesy clientele.
Good public transit access to a casino is a bad thing: poor people will have one more way, in addition to buying overpriced sneakers, soda, and junk food, to squander their welfare money and screw their kids.

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

And bring the Sugarhouse crowd to Market East? The folks who lock their toddlers in the car while they get their slots fix? OK, so they'll now have subway access, so they'll just lock the kids up alone home or leave them wandering in the Gallery. But it's the same people. Better to keep them up at Sugarhouse out of our sight and use market east for something better.

Maybe we should just keep all poor people locked up and out of sight so non-poors will never suffer having to lay eyes on them.

[Baconboy007]

Originally Posted by techchallenger

Maybe we should just keep all poor people locked up and out of sight so non-poors will never suffer having to lay eyes on them.

But then they'll be the poor.

Speaking of the poor let's hope Brandywine stay's away from it. Bad segue but let's talk about development.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-p...selling-S-Jersey-Del-offices-report.html

[JustSomeGuyWho]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Just ignore him. He doesn't understand that wealthy and higher end clients aren't going to take public transit. His opinions are irrelevant. I've yet to see a comment from him on this forum that adds any sort of value.

Like this fella

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by techchallenger

Maybe we should just keep all poor people locked up and out of sight so non-poors will never suffer having to lay eyes on them.

You missed my point. If the powers that be or yourself are in favor of creating a low end slots facility in the heart of center city with great subway and bus access for the poor, then by all means, support Market8 or Provence.

Just don't expect anything glamorous that will spur high end economic development.

A downtown slots parlor will be the giant entertainment equivalent of a dollar store or a savalot grocery store. They will be purveyors of low end, low quality product and service affordable to the poor and will be shunned by educated and wealthy people.

If that's the vision you have for Market East, then so be it. But that's basically what we already have.

You are not going to get a high class slots parlor. There's no such thing.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by McBane

In all fairness, that approach (to be accessible almost solely by mass transit) didn't work so well for the Gallery, did it?

Apples to Oranges.

How's the Granite Run Mall doing? McDade Mall? Tri-State Mall? Burlington Mall?

The populace is over malls. Period.

People want to shop in an energetic, urban environment. Hence all of the "towne" imposters like Worthington, Brinton Lake, Sagemore, etc.

Try again.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by techchallenger

Maybe we should just keep all poor people locked up and out of sight so non-poors will never suffer having to lay eyes on them.

By the way, Center City is far more socioecononically diverse and frequented by the poor than the downtowns of NYC, SF, DC, Boston, Seattle, Vancouver, Sydney, etc.: the types of downtowns to which most people on this board would like Center City to aspire.

I think most here would like Center City to be more appealing to educated, more "sophisticated" people. That does not automatically we would also like to keep out the poor or uneducated. Philly is a poor city with lower than average education attainment. As a result, much of Center City is geared to meet the needs of that population.

Personally, I'd like to see it geared to a more educated population the is increasingly inhabiting "greater center city" as well as to the growing population of more sophisticated foreign visitors and tourists.

These people by and large are not interested in Savalot, dollar stores, or . . . slots.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Just ignore him. He doesn't understand that wealthy and higher end clients aren't going to take public transit. His opinions are irrelevant. I've yet to see a comment from him on this forum that adds any sort of value.

Mmmkay.

I've contributed to quite a bit to this thread over the years.

I've contributed quite a bit to Philadelphia over the years.

I bought a derelict house on a derelict street and nursed it backed to health and watched my block bloom along with it.

I sat on the board of a civic committee that has been among the most if not the most pro-development committees in the city...and was part of building consensus around what good planning looks like in the city of Philadelphia...much of which has been incorporated into our new code. I helped with a master plan in my neighborhood before the were de rigeur.

I VOLUNTEERED on that committee for over ten years, sometimes upwards of 20 hours a month.

I also happen to be a very successful professional and know an incredibly number of successful, upwardly mobile (and in some cases already wealthy) people in my group of Millenials and Gen Y-ers.

But I don't need to polish my bonafides for you.

I'm the real thing.

You are a joke.

[ILovePhilly]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Mmmkay.

I've contributed to quite a bit to this thread over the years.

I've contributed quite a bit to Philadelphia over the years.

I bought a derelict house on a derelict street and nursed it backed to health and watched my block bloom along with it.

I sat on the board of a civic committee that has been among the most if not the most pro-development committees in the city...and was part of building consensus around what good planning looks like in the city of Philadelphia...much of which has been incorporated into our new code. I helped with a master plan in my neighborhood before the were de rigeur.

I VOLUNTEERED on that committee for over ten years, sometimes upwards of 20 hours a month.

I also happen to be a very successful professional and know an incredibly number of successful, upwardly mobile (and in some cases already wealthy) people in my group of Millenials and Gen Y-ers.

But I don't need to polish my bonafides for you.

I'm the real thing.

You are a joke.

**slow clap** for the most annoying comment of the year. Thanks for trotting out your bonafides anyway. Can we all stop and get back on topic?