General Updates and News

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

"Hipsters"? Who are these evil "hipsters" to which you all are referring? Why must we pigeonhole people into dorky categories such as this?

Regarding the concept of gentrification in the downtown/north end, what does this mean, really? A couple of generations ago, the Gottingen Street area was one of the main shopping districts of the city - the place to go downtown. As city growth/change happened back 40 - 50 years ago, it went into decline as it was neglected for various reasons (such as the growth of suburban malls, building of the Cogswell interchange, etc.). Now as we start to see Halifax evolve this area is seeing a rebirth.

Truthfully, from somebody who has lived in the Halifax area a long time, it's nice to see this neighborhood turn around and see some growth and new life. From my youth I remember this place as being a neighbourhood that you just didn't walk through - whether real or imaginary, that was it's reputation. These days, I don't hear any threats of tearing down Uniacke Square, so I don't see people of lower income being completely forced out of the neighborhood. Therefore, what can it hurt if there is some new healthy growth in the area?

It almost seems as though there is an expectation that once a neighbourhood hits a low point, it should remain that way until the end of time to avoid "gentrification". Cities change, neighborhoods change, people will live where they can afford to live. I think it's the natural ebb and flow of city neighborhoods.

With the idea developing now to provide the opportunities for people of all income ranges to live in the same neighborhood, I think there are a lot of positive effects that can come from this revitalization. Wielding terms like gentrification seems like trying to somehow put a negative slant to the situation - evil, rich "hipsters" swooping in and taking the land from poor downtrodden folk - rather than see it as it really is. The neighbourhood is evolving and will continue to do so just as it does in many cities all over the country. Overall, I don't see it as a bad thing.

But I wholly agree with this.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I'm happy you've not experienced this Drybrain, but I have immigrant friends-- people not from ROC, but far off countries-- who *have* struggled with local racism, hostility, everything.

And I think pointing out this reality, doesn't make me a "self-effacing bluenose". In fact, this sounds like it's a convenient way to attack the messenger rather than address the message.

There are similar problems elsewhere; Nova Scotia is not wholly special in this sense. But with our demographic challenges and de-population, it's one that had to be acknowledged and addressed, not wished away.

Oh, I'm sure it's a real thing--there's even a name for it and everything!

But I do feel, and this is just a hunch, of course (being Canadian-born, I can't compare the immigrant experience between any of the provinces I've lived in) that we spend a lot of unproductive time lamenting it, perhaps beyond the degree the problem merits.

I know that in my office of about 25 people, more than half are CFA. From Ontario, Manitoba, B.C., Saskatchewan, Lebanon, England, China and Brazil, and the U.S. I can't speak for anyone, but we all seem to get along pretty swimmingly.

We have a city in which the development community--literally our city builders--are largely Middle Eastern and Lebanese. We have a provincial economy in which immigrants integrate more quickly and work in their chosen field more frequently than in most of the country. So we seem to overlook our immigration successes and strengths, as well.

I'm sure there are a lot of cultural quirks I don't yet fully understand here, and no doubt there is a more deep-rooted suspicion of non-locals in a place that has traditionally received relatively few immigrants, and which has an especially strong sense of place and local culture. But my initial impression is that the CFA thing is maybe more talked about than reflected in day-to-day-life. And to seem degree, of course, suspicion of non-Canadians is everywhere. We see it in the temporary foreign worker controversy, in the panic over Asian real-estate investment in large cities, in the difficulty of recognizing non-Canadian academic and business credentials, etc.

It's definitely true, of course, that Nova Scotia's additional demographic problems make it imperative that we work extra hard to combat anti-newcomer attitudes here.

[someone123]

It's kind of hard to talk about because, on the one hand, there's always room for improvement, and it's weird to pat yourself on the back for being open and progressive, but I don't think Halifax is bad compared to other parts of North America.

I could probably write an essay on this but the "CFA" thing is one of the many areas where I feel like the self-image of people in Halifax is pretty heavily detached from reality.

I am not sure why this happened. I suspect that one factor is the portrayal of the region and city in the media; the national media have a habit, for example, of presenting the city as ipso facto racist because of what happened 50 years ago in Africville. They don't place those events in their historical context. Most parts of Canada back then didn't have black people, period, so implying that they were more enlightened back then is bizarre.

Atlantic Canada sometimes seems to serve as a source of schadenfreude for Central Canada in particular. The symptoms of this are narratives about backwardness, racism, poor fishermen on pogey, brutal winter storms, and on and on. The impression of the region you'd get from the news is way out in left field compared to reality. I wonder if people in NS have internalized this to some extent.

An interesting corollary to this is the question of how many negative trends in the region are caused by the negativity. Would the region be significantly better off if the portrayals were slanted in a positive direction?

[ns_kid]

Sometime this fall, the city will have a new arena. Well newly-named, in any case, with some long-overdue renovations.

Metro Centre will be rebranded as Scotiabank Centre, as per this piece from Metro Halifax:

Scotiabank Centre it is as Halifax Metro Centre gets its new name

And the new name is … Scotiabank Centre.

At a much-anticipated presser on Wednesday during the lunch hour, Trade Centre Limited and the city of Halifax announced that Scotiabank Centre will become to the new name for the Halifax Metro Centre.

The announcement was officially made inside the Metro Centre, with Scotiabank paying $650,000 per year over 10 years for naming rights.

Halifax regional councillors voted Tuesday to award the naming rights for the 35-year-old facility to the “highest scoring proponent.”

Moments after that vote, Trade Centre Limited issued a news release inviting media to meet the new Metro Centre partner for the event on Wednesday.

A staff report suggests the Metro Centre needs $5 million in refurbishments including improved seating and washroom facilities, which would require a “significant capital investment” by HRM, which owns the facility.

Bids for the naming rights were evaluated primarily on “net present value of financial contribution,” along with exclusivity, financial stability, and company fit.

The renovations are badly needed though I remain skeptical that there can be a significant improvement within the current footprint. The concourse is far too narrow during sold-out events and the pitch of the seats does not allow for great sightlines. And don't get me started on the effect of those skyboxes on the experience of those seated in the higher levels of the upper bowl.

But any improvement to the terrible washrooms will be welcome. As will be more comfortable seats, though I have a great fear that there will be an attempt to increase capacity by reducing the seat size.

I should say, I'm not a big fan of selling off naming rights to public buildings. But if economics dictates the need, I don't suppose you could ask for a more appropriate sponsor than the BNS, considering it began just two blocks away, on the corner of Duke and Granville, in 1832.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by ns_kid

"Come from away" is more myth than fact, in my view. I grew up in Nova Scotia, returning after several years "away". I've lived and worked in small towns in the Valley, South Shore and northern NS, as well as in Halifax. I can say in honesty that I have never heard anyone use the term "come from away", except perhaps in irony.

That's not to say there's not parochialism: there's plenty of that and it's certainly not confined to this province. But as for Nova Scotians who like "throwing around" the CFA term, I've yet to meet any of them.

I've been called come from away - I'm not.

My father, who was in municipal politics in NS for years has been told in public meetings that he can't have an opinion because he's a "come from away" (this, after living in the province for 30+ years, raising four children here, working in his local community, volunteering etc.) from his COLLEAGUES.

I've read posters in this forum explain that Tim Bousquet (sp) should have nothing to say about municipal affairs because he's not from here. The CFA term wasn't used, but the cultural baggage was.

This thread is currently treading on the cusp of blaming gentrification in Halifax on Ontario money driving out "real" Nova Scotians. No one has called them Come From Aways yet, but we might as well be.

All that said.

I don't think this is unique here - plenty of people are suspicious of those who are "other," and it's a convenient tool to pull out when we want to disassociate from a problem ("gentrification," for example) and imply that the problem is not caused by us, or those with whom we share an identity ("real Nova Scotian," "not-a-hipster"). By extension, it helps absolve us of responsibility for fixing someone else's problem.

I don't think the CFA term is the problem, and it's not an issue that's confined to Nova Scotia.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Oh, I'm sure it's a real thing--there's even a name for it and everything!


We have a city in which the development community--literally our city builders--are largely Middle Eastern and Lebanese. We have a provincial economy in which immigrants integrate more quickly and work in their chosen field more frequently than in most of the country. So we seem to overlook our immigration successes and strengths, as well.

But my initial impression is that the CFA thing is maybe more talked about than reflected in day-to-day-life. And to seem degree, of course, suspicion of non-Canadians is everywhere. We see it in the temporary foreign worker controversy, in the panic over Asian real-estate investment in large cities, in the difficulty of recognizing non-Canadian academic and business credentials, etc.

It's definitely true, of course, that Nova Scotia's additional demographic problems make it imperative that we work extra hard to combat anti-newcomer attitudes here.

People from all over built this city. They built communities,generously gave their time to all kind of institutions and initiatives. They built a society without a thought of money profit.
The TFW programme is a farce as is the nanny programme.
I agree with the need for more immigrants but what immigrants can we afford ? We need immogrants who can speak one of our official languages, have a written job offer and don't need all manner of services. When I use the word 'immigrants' I am not including refugees. The retention of immigrants is terrible, and well documented.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

I don't agree with this. See my post above.

Well, there certainly seems to be evidence to prove the contrary to my experience, but I stand my ground on my statement. Maybe I don't travel in the circles of those for whom this is a significant part of their outlook... I'm not sure.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I've been called come from away - I'm not.

My father, who was in municipal politics in NS for years has been told in public meetings that he can't have an opinion because he's a "come from away" (this, after living in the province for 30+ years, raising four children here, working in his local community, volunteering etc.) from his COLLEAGUES.

I've read posters in this forum explain that Tim Bousquet (sp) should have nothing to say about municipal affairs because he's not from here. The CFA term wasn't used, but the cultural baggage was.

This thread is currently treading on the cusp of blaming gentrification in Halifax on Ontario money driving out "real" Nova Scotians. No one has called them Come From Aways yet, but we might as well be.

All that said.

I don't think this is unique here - plenty of people are suspicious of those who are "other," and it's a convenient tool to pull out when we want to disassociate from a problem ("gentrification," for example) and imply that the problem is not caused by us, or those with whom we share an identity ("real Nova Scotian," "not-a-hipster"). By extension, it helps absolve us of responsibility for fixing someone else's problem.

I don't think the CFA term is the problem, and it's not an issue that's confined to Nova Scotia.

Great points. All agreed. Thanks.

Just as an aside, here's a website Bousquet tweeted to today, concerning a single amendment to the Regional Plan. It has nothing to do with CFA, but if you read the link-- which looks to be a Co-op website for Eastern Shore, you see the distinction is made:

People presented personal stories about why they had chosen to live in Musquodoboit Harbour, whether they had been born there, or come from away.

http://www.easternshorecooperator.ca/breaking-news.php

Again, it's not overtly negative, but, perhaps even unconsciously, the writer feels the need to make the distinction, and uses the CFA label.

FWIW, I did find that "CFA" use is less prevalent in Halifax than in rural or outlying areas of Nova Scotia, where its use is most common. That might explain some of the folks on this thread never encountering it. I'm not sure.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Colin May

People from all over built this city. They built communities,generously gave their time to all kind of institutions and initiatives. They built a society without a thought of money profit.
The TFW programme is a farce as is the nanny programme.
I agree with the need for more immigrants but what immigrants can we afford ? We meed immogrants who can speak one of our official languages, have a written job offer and don't need all manner of services. When i use the word 'immigrants' I am not including refugees. The retention of immigrants is terrible, and well documented.

Totally agree that people from all over built this city. But on immigrants... we need more new Canadians and not only can we *afford* them, but can't afford *not* to welcome them here.

It's a mistake to assume that only immigrants with "job offers" can be "afforded".

Studies have shown, time and time again, that immigrants are much more entrepreneurial, much more likely to start a small business, than Canadians born here.

In fact, just a day ago, the Conference Board of Canada released a study showing immigrant businesses are also much more likely to export to the U.S. and beyond, than other Canadian businesses:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1378139/...re-likely-to-export-to-the-us-and-beyond

People think immigrants will take their job. They don't want your job. And they don't want to work for you, either.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

FWIW, I did find that "CFA" use is less prevalent in Halifax than in rural or outlying areas of Nova Scotia, where its use is most common. That might explain some of the folks on this thread never encountering it. I'm not sure.

It does sound more like a rural thing, and I've always lived in the city, which means that I'd probably be considered CFA if I moved there... (joking ).

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Totally agree that people from all over built this city. But on immigrants... we need more new Canadians and not only can we *afford* them, but can't afford *not* to welcome them here.

It's a mistake to assume that only immigrants with "job offers" can be "afforded".

Studies have shown, time and time again, that immigrants are much more entrepreneurial, much more likely to start a small business, than Canadians born here.

In fact, just a day ago, the Conference Board of Canada released a study showing immigrant businesses are also much more likely to export to the U.S. and beyond, than other Canadian businesses:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1378139/...re-likely-to-export-to-the-us-and-beyond

People think immigrants will take their job. They don't want your job. And they don't want to work for you, either.

A lot of 'skilled' immigrants come here without a job offer and then end up in menial jobs. I had internationally recognised qualifications and I knew there were positions available and accepted an offer from a well known company and after a few years moved to metro to work for a multinational company. I could have worked in Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver.
We all read about people with professional qualifications unable to find work when they emigrate to Canada. I cannot understand why Canada takes in immigrants and their families who are not proficient in French or English and have no job offer. Refugees are different as we are fulfilling our international obligations.
Some immigrants start businesses which grow to large corporations, Frank Stronach is probably the best known example.
Alberta can afford to take people in and provide services.
It seems to me that this cry for more immigrants ignores the past record of people arriving in Nova Scotia and then rapidly leaving. I think the province sees warm bodies as increased transfer payments.
As a small province with little industry it is obviously difficult to attract and retain immigrants.
I have seen a lot of immigrants and refugees arrive in Halifax and some moved on within a day or two and some took longer before leaving and others stayed and made a go of it. I remember two Bosnian families asking about opportunities in Halifax and if it was better in Toronto or Calgary.
When we came to Canada we decided to throw ourselves into Canadian life and not seek out people from where we had left. The past is the past and the future is a new journey - old baggage is best left behind. The point of leaving a homeland is to give your children a better future free of the old culture.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Colin May

People from all over built this city. They built communities,generously gave their time to all kind of institutions and initiatives. They built a society without a thought of money profit.
The TFW programme is a farce as is the nanny programme.
I agree with the need for more immigrants but what immigrants can we afford ? We need immogrants who can speak one of our official languages, have a written job offer and don't need all manner of services. When I use the word 'immigrants' I am not including refugees. The retention of immigrants is terrible, and well documented.

Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking?

Anyway, it's hard to persuade people with stats, but for what it's worth, Halifax has better employment outcomes for immigrants than any of Canada's big three cities--Halifax gets very few refugees; most of our newcomers are skilled in some way or educated, and on a per capita basis are bigger job creators than the Canadian-born population. Plus our retention stats have gone way up. They still have room to improve, of course, but I find these discussions often in involve discussion of recent but outdated stats from 96 or 2001--retention more than doubled since then.

As far as the lure of Alberta for immigrants. Well, no doubt it'll likely be easier to find work there. That goes for all Canadians. I worked for United Way Toronto last year and they were starting to see new immigrants contemplating moving west. It sucks, but that's Canada right now. As I mentioned, stats indicate newcomers are doing better here than in much of Ontario. As Someone123 said, I think part (certainly not all) of Nova Scotia's problem is persistent negativity--maybe part of our out-migration is due to people assuming things will be easier elsewhere, or young people fresh out of school blaming Nova Scotia for a job market that's tough to crack, and not having then perspective to know that, shit, that's all over the place. I know a few gainfully employed people who have moved to Ontario for 'opportunities' and I keep thinking 'what opportunities?' Ontario is basically in the same boat. Getting your first post-grad job or getting in your feet as a new immigrant is certainly no easier--I saw a lot of hardship when I worked at United away, and the stats reflect that.

Anyway, long winded way of saying we are attracting immigrants with entrepreneurial spirit.. I think part of our problem attracting immigrants is simply a bad reputation, partially due to out own self-image, and partially due to lack of visibility.

[Colin May]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Where are you from, if you don't mind me asking?

Anyway, it's hard to persuade people with stats, but for what it's worth, Halifax has better employment outcomes for immigrants than any of Canada's big three cities--Halifax gets very few refugees; most of our newcomers are skilled in some way or educated, and on a per capita basis are bigger job creators than the Canadian-born population. Plus our retention stats have gone way up. They still have room to improve, of course, but I find these discussions often in involve discussion of recent but outdated stats from 96 or 2001--retention more than doubled since then.

As far as the lure of Alberta for immigrants. Well, no doubt it'll likely be easier to find work there. That goes for all Canadians. I worked for United Way Toronto last year and they were starting to see new immigrants contemplating moving west. It sucks, but that's Canada right now. As I mentioned, stats indicate newcomers are doing better here than in much of Ontario. As Someone123 said, I think part (certainly not all) of Nova Scotia's problem is persistent negativity--maybe part of our out-migration is due to people assuming things will be easier elsewhere, or young people fresh out of school blaming Nova Scotia for a job market that's tough to crack, and not having then perspective to know that, shit, that's all over the place. I know a few gainfully employed people who have moved to Ontario for 'opportunities' and I keep thinking 'what opportunities?' Ontario is basically in the same boat. Getting your first post-grad job or getting in your feet as a new immigrant is certainly no easier--I saw a lot of hardship when I worked at United away, and the stats reflect that.

Anyway, long winded way of saying we are attracting immigrants with entrepreneurial spirit.. I think part of our problem attracting immigrants is simply a bad reputation, partially due to out own self-image, and partially due to lack of visibility.

I don't think the stats reflect the true state of immigration to Nova Scotia.

Example : Universities have often relied on immigrants, generally from Europe. The TFW documents show Dal as having a TFW.
Managers and skilled engineers for certain industries came from Europe - pulp and paper and Michelin and mining.
Ship building imported many skilled people from the UK. Hawker Siddeley used UK immigrants in the 1970's when building the most sophisticated drilling rigs and drillships in the world here in Halifax.
Irving did the same in Saint John for the 1980's frigate programme and in February were in Scotland looking for high end management talent form the naval programme and specifically targeted people who had managed UK warship building programmes. Their second trip to the UK.

I have met many immigrants and refugees and many of them remain in my mind many years after meeting them.
Here is one anecdote. A man arrived in Halifax from Toronto to go through 2 days of interviews and exams to be qualified as a doctor in Canada. He trained in Ceylon to the same stadard and using the same syllabus as students in the UK. He passed the same exam as UK students and then practiced in Ceylon until emigrating and entering into practice in the UK. He then improved his credentials and became a surgeon in the UK. Eventually he learned that Canada needed doctors and decided to emigrate to Canada in the expectation he would quickly open a practice after being registered.
Ontario refused to recognise his UK credentials, experience and fluency in English and ordered him to spend the time and money to travel to Halifax to be tested for English language proficiency and sit an exam. ( On the same weekend two middle-eastern women doctors were sitting the same exams and I am sure one failed as her english language skills were very poor. )

This study is quite good, see page 30 for retention data : http://community.smu.ca/atlantic/documents/Akbari209-1draftNSreportJuly11.pdf

[JET]

I remember the 1988 Dartmouth mayor election, Dartmouth roots vs come from away.
http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/national-lampoon/Content?oid=958315

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by JET

I remember the 1988 Dartmouth mayor election, Dartmouth roots vs come from away.
http://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/national-lampoon/Content?oid=958315

Not surprising-- but still ugly. Can see how it might be used as a "wedge" in local politics, but hopefully we wouldn't see something that obvious and ugly today.

For those in doubt about the use of CFA, or differential treatment of people from away, in Nova Scotia and the maritimes more broadly..

A few links/reads. First, an interesting piece from a Cape Breton blogger:

"Locals vs. Come-From-Aways"

http://dreambigcapebreton.com/2012/05/07/locals-vs-come-from-aways/

It’s a complicated issue. There’s this cultural myth that says Cape Bretoners – well, all folks from the Atlantic Provinces, really – are over-the-top hospitable people, that they’ll make you feel ‘right at home’. And our tourism industry depends on this myth to keep people coming here.

But at the same time, if our culture is all we really have (and on this island where pretty much all major industry is gone, that is the case), then we’re going to hold that culture close to our chests and dole out membership very carefully. Not just everyone who crosses the causeway and hangs out here for a while gets to be a Cape Bretoner.

Read the comments to that post. Not a single person doubts or disputes the existence either of the use or understanding in the community that people make the distinction. They all relate their explanations for the distinction, stories, etc.

And now a PEI blogger on point:

http://books.squidoo.com/anne-of-green-gables-only-on-prince-edward-island

Quote:

Part of Anne’s difference, aside from the red hair, was that she was from away. We still think of people not born on Prince Edward Island as CFAs – Come From Aways. I left home when I was 16 to go to university and I did not really return home to live until I was 56. I spent 40 years wandering in the desert as I like to say. And yet, when I went back home, it was as if I never left.

Meanwhile, a woman who has lived there and worked there for the same 40 years is still viewed as an outsider. It’s that kind of a community.

Here's a broadcast of Calgary Mayor, Naheed Nenshi talking about the "come from away" attitude in the maritimes and why it's holding us back:

http://www.cbc.ca/maritimenoon/2012/08/1...vice-on-poisons-significant-fossil-find/

Here's another post from a writer speaking from personal experience:

http://dailygumboot.ca/2010/05/maitland-nova-scotia/

There is a very strong sense of identity in rural Nova Scotia’s communities. To be “from” Maitland means that you were born there (and odds are your parents and grandparents, etc. were from there too). If you weren’t born there, then you were a “come from away.” I don’t remember ever explicitly hearing the term “come from away’” while growing up, but people were identified by where they were from. And as a result I will always be from Maitland, even though I will never move back and my mum (who is from Truro) will never be from Maitland even though she has lived there over 30 years and likely will never move away.

From a blogger on the South Shore:

http://bettinagrunwald.wordpress.com/

Recently I went to a “Newcomers” evening in Liverpool, Nova Scotia. Although living here now well over a decade, and being a first generation Canadian, I’m forever a Come From Away… but that’s OK, as I arrived on the South Shore by choice and not just birth luck! Check out this professional video of the original landowners before me

Another Nova Scotia writer:

http://www.jenniferchapin.net/blog/category/nova%20scotia

This province has not, in history, been welcoming to outsiders. The designation of being a "come from away" (in Massachusetts I believe the term is "wash ashore") is one that the province is only now starting to relinquish as it realizes that it needs the expertise, wisdom, insight and unique perspective that all of us from "away", whether it be from New York or Louisiana, Gambia, Iran or Pakistan contribute. This infusion moves us from being insular to global, and threatens no one.

I could go on and on... but agree with the last writers' sense of optimism.

Time to let go of the clan rule. Halifax seems to be better on this count than rural Nova Scotia, but it still has plenty more distance to come.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Here's a broadcast of Calgary Mayor, Naheed Nenshi talking about the "come from away" attitude in the maritimes and why it's holding us back:

Cool links.

Only quibble I have with anything said in there is that Nenshi is very much a typical Calgary mega-booster, and he's really invested in this idea of Alberta as a pure meritocracy, which is total nonsense. So I think he's a great mayor, but he's not the most objective/rational person to weigh in on this issue, I don't think. (He says Calgary is successful because "no one cares who your daddy was." The reason for Calgary's success, as I'm sure we all know, lies underground a few hundred kilometres north of the city.)

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

Cool links.

Only quibble I have with anything said in there is that Nenshi is very much a typical Calgary mega-booster, and he's really invested in this idea of Alberta as a pure meritocracy, which is total nonsense. So I think he's a great mayor, but he's not the most objective/rational person to weigh in on this issue, I don't think. (He says Calgary is successful because "no one cares who your daddy was." The reason for Calgary's success, as I'm sure we all know, lies underground a few hundred kilometres north of the city.)

Yeah, there's some BS there for sure. But I think Nenshi has done a great job as mayor and, in particular, has explicitly called out and battled urban sprawl and the sprawl lobby more than any other politician in the country (and the sprawl lobby has reacted strongly, doing their best behind the scenes to beat him in the next election).

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Not surprising-- but still ugly. Can see how it might be used as a "wedge" in local politics, but hopefully we wouldn't see something that obvious and ugly today.

For those in doubt about the use of CFA, or differential treatment of people from away, in Nova Scotia and the maritimes more broadly..

A few links/reads. First, an interesting piece from a Cape Breton blogger:

"Locals vs. Come-From-Aways"

http://dreambigcapebreton.com/2012/05/07/locals-vs-come-from-aways/



Read the comments to that post. Not a single person doubts or disputes the existence either of the use or understanding in the community that people make the distinction. They all relate their explanations for the distinction, stories, etc.

And now a PEI blogger on point:

http://books.squidoo.com/anne-of-green-gables-only-on-prince-edward-island

Quote:


Here's a broadcast of Calgary Mayor, Naheed Nenshi talking about the "come from away" attitude in the maritimes and why it's holding us back:

http://www.cbc.ca/maritimenoon/2012/08/1...vice-on-poisons-significant-fossil-find/

Here's another post from a writer speaking from personal experience:

http://dailygumboot.ca/2010/05/maitland-nova-scotia/



From a blogger on the South Shore:

http://bettinagrunwald.wordpress.com/



Another Nova Scotia writer:

http://www.jenniferchapin.net/blog/category/nova%20scotia



I could go on and on... but agree with the last writers' sense of optimism.

Time to let go of the clan rule. Halifax seems to be better on this count than rural Nova Scotia, but it still has plenty more distance to come.

Holy Cripes! Talk about beating a topic to death!

Obviously I've been living under a rock, or just tend to block out ignorance, not sure. It does seem to be something that exists more in the media than on-the-street, IMHO.

That said, Mayor Savage defeated Keating in that election, so "come from away" didn't have much credence in that situation.

To me it seems to be something that gets pinned on us or that we pin on ourselves more than it actually exists in day to day life. Nor does it exist only in our little world - I've heard several instances of "westerners" looking down on "easterners" coming there for work, but have always chalked it up to the ignorance of individuals rather than something that all "westerners" own. I think that should hold true here as well - an idea owned by an individual perhaps rooted in ignorance rather than a recognized part of our "culture". Sorry but I refuse to own this.

Sigh... looking forward to reading something a little more positive here. You guys are getting depressing...

[Colin May]

The CFA stuff is common across the world - they just use a different term.
Sometimes it is city folk taking the p*** out of country folk and vice versa.
Or in India and N Ireland and many other parts of the world it's religion.
We settled here very well, made friends with Canadians our age and just got on with life.
I had some people working under me complaining about me and others ' taking jobs from Canadians'. I would tell them to hit the books and sit the exams to get the same qualifications I had and then Canada wouldn't need me - a few of them were smart enough to take the advice.
Nenshi is a smooth talker with levity but what the hell does he know about the maritimes other than what a few whiners told him in Calgary. If he is so smart send him to Sydney to sort out the problems of Cape Breton, it's easy to look good when your city is top of the heap and full of head offices. Make him a party leader or premier in the maritimes and see how he does.
I have found maritimers to be very hard working. I had a US executive raving about Nova Scotia employees and looking for more when the offshore was booming and Sedco hired a lot of Nova Scotians for their Halifax built rigs and the people stayed with Sedco, progressed through the ranks and worked all over the world.

[worldlyhaligonian]

You guys have gone off the rails with this one.

I've been called out for saying "from away"... let me clarify... I don't mean another country usually, its mostly directed at people from Toronto who come to Halifax and try to stop progress because they came here and fear Halifax will become another Toronto. (And who's money trumps that of local people.)

It won't! It will never be shitty Toronto because its based in a beautiful natural setting. By the same token, high density development downtown and in the north end won't stop it being a 10 minute drive to be in the woods. Let's embrace the good things about cities.

My point about hipsters... sorry, but its a real thing! I grew up with real hippies and punks, not rich kids from Toronto who move to Halifax and act as if they are poor or hard done by or even a part of the community.

Case in point from that coast article, the person who wrote it Speaking out against affordable housing:

"moved to Nova Scotia from Toronto, like so many others, to attend university. Clare manages The Bus Stop Theatre—which is Halifax’s only black-box rental venue—has an active art practice and is a collaborator on several community development projects, including Street Stories, Earth Church, North End Pirate Radio and Fry Fuel."

The "community" I know from this area are to busy working to have time to spend on things like this, in fact, many are the decedents of people from Africville. When they say community they mean the white people who are gentrifying. Its not all bad, but its hardly all good. I'm white, but I'm also from Halifax. Real talk.