DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[bunt_q]

Can you view thread traffic statistics as a mid? If be curious what percentage of folks only look at the main thread.

Also, so Cirrus doesn't delete this post for being off topic. Union station fountain - awesome!

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Moved RyanD's post with the supercell photo to the chitchat thread. It's one thing when discussions naturally flow into a weather/photography topic, but if we're posting unrelated weather photos fresh then let's try to put them in the right place.

What if I wanted just the Denver people to see that picture? I miss the Denver Development Etceteras Thread #5 where 'etceteras' were allowed... Meanie.

Ugh... Here's something development related so you don't remove THIS post

EDIT: Clicked submit and saw I'm double posting bunt. Your turn Mr. Mod.

EDIT EDIT: Please don't ban me.

Awesome fountain-age at DUS (Ken's photo)

Denver Union Station Update #127 - Fountains!
via DenverInfill

[Cirrus]

If we're going to have the other threads then let's use them. Or if you guys would rather only have 1 catch-all thread for everything that's also fine. Or it would also be fine to do away with the other recurring threads, keep this one, and start more fresh topics any time we want to separate a discussion out from this main thread. There's not an overall forum rule. But we've had this discussion multiple times now, and we keep coming back to the same consensus to keep multiple recurring threads.

My personal subjective sense is that the higher traffic in the development thread is either self-fulfilling prophecy or self-selection from readers who'd prefer not to see the other stuff anyway. I also fear that putting everything in this one thread makes the forum less accessible to future new members, and would ultimately lead to stagnation.

Anyway, since this discussion is a natural outgrowth from earlier posts in the thread, I'm not going to move it unless it goes on a long time or we decide to make a poll or something.

[DenverInfill]

Half of the fountain area is still edged in fencing and numerous orange barrels and cones are here and there and there's still one relatively small section of the plaza that's still not open but... Wynkoop Plaza is mostly now open to the public! Rockies fans were streaming through the plaza around 5:30 PM today on their way to Coors Field with many snapping photos.

It will be several days, perhaps another week or two, before all of the final finishing touches are completed (they're still installing benches, bike racks, etc.), but already it looks like it's going to be a great people gathering space. I couldn't help but sit on the granite cubes and watch as people were drawn to the space. That a couple let their toddlers run through the fountain is a good sign that Wynkoop Plaza is going to be a fantastic public space for Downtown Denver. Imagine what it will be like when the hotel and 8 more restaurant/retail spaces open within the next few weeks!

[Cirrus]

It's the restaurants that are going to make the space succeed in the long term. Nothing activates a public space like outdoor dining.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

If we're going to have the other threads then let's use them. Or if you guys would rather only have 1 catch-all thread for everything that's also fine. Or it would also be fine to do away with the other recurring threads, keep this one, and start more fresh topics any time we want to separate a discussion out from this main thread. There's not an overall forum rule. But we've had this discussion multiple times now, and we keep coming back to the same consensus to keep multiple recurring threads.

My personal subjective sense is that the higher traffic in the development thread is either self-fulfilling prophecy or self-selection from readers who'd prefer not to see the other stuff anyway. I also fear that putting everything in this one thread makes the forum less accessible to future new members, and would ultimately lead to stagnation.

I vote for keeping the "etcetera" elements out of this thread. Everything being in one thread gets a bit unwieldy. We should be able to handle three basic threads: Development, Transportation, and everything else (MW Chitchat).

[jubguy3]

Originally Posted by RyanD

What if I wanted just the Denver people to see that picture? I miss the Denver Development Etceteras Thread #5 where 'etceteras' were allowed... Meanie.

Ugh... Here's something development related so you don't remove THIS post

EDIT: Clicked submit and saw I'm double posting bunt. Your turn Mr. Mod.

EDIT EDIT: Please don't ban me.

Awesome fountain-age at DUS (Ken's photo)

Denver Union Station Update #127 - Fountains!
via DenverInfill

Wow! I was there a couple of weeks ago and that was all waiting. It's beautiful now! I'll look forward to seeing the inside if union if it isn't here already.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

It's the restaurants that are going to make the space succeed in the long term. Nothing activates a public space like outdoor dining.

Agreed. It's the "patio umbrella table" theory of urban revitalization.

I just checked, there are ELEVEN more food/beverage establishments that haven't opened yet that will have direct ground-floor exposure to the plaza. Two in the new wing buildings and nine in the historic station. I know the two in the wing buildings will definitely have patio space on the plaza. I'm not sure if all of the nine in the historic station will, but at least four of the main restaurants will for sure. In my quick Google Earth measuring estimation, approximately 700 linear feet of Wynkoop Plaza frontage will be occupied by outdoor dining spaces.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

If we're going to have the other threads then let's use them.

...

...

I'm just giving you a hard time. I don't really care where things are moved.

[bob rulz]

The chitchat thread is essential because it connects members from different cities that might not otherwise talk to each other much.

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

My personal subjective sense is that the higher traffic in the development thread is either self-fulfilling prophecy or self-selection from readers who'd prefer not to see the other stuff anyway. I also fear that putting everything in this one thread makes the forum less accessible to future new members, and would ultimately lead to stagnation.

As someone who only posts occasionally but reads everyday, I am interested in the smaller topics too. I usually only check the threads that I'm subscribed to in my control panel, which are mostly the big ones, and I usually don't bother to sift through the actual forum because there's likely to be more that I'm not interested in (SLC, Boise, etc). than stuff that does interest me. I had no clue that a Cherry Creek thread existed until you mentioned it at the start of this thread as a wrap-up, though I was interested in a thread like that. I'm fine with the smaller topics being broken off into their own threads as long as perhaps they're mentioned and linked in a main thread (development, transportation, chit chat). I don't know if this is anything that could be made a rule, but at least pointing to when things are split off is a nice courtesy to anybody like me who rarely ventures out into the main forum and occasionally misses split-off topics.

[bob rulz]

Maybe we could make a stickied thread that has links to all of the active topics? That seems like it would be pretty useful.

[Octavian]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Agreed. It's the "patio umbrella table" theory of urban revitalization.

I just checked, there are ELEVEN more food/beverage establishments that haven't opened yet that will have direct ground-floor exposure to the plaza. Two in the new wing buildings and nine in the historic station. I know the two in the wing buildings will definitely have patio space on the plaza. I'm not sure if all of the nine in the historic station will, but at least four of the main restaurants will for sure. In my quick Google Earth measuring estimation, approximately 700 linear feet of Wynkoop Plaza frontage will be occupied by outdoor dining spaces.

Here is the floor plan for DUS. I think the 4 big restaurants, pig train coffee and maybe fresh exchange? Will have access to the plaza?

http://unionstationindenver.com//wp-content/uploads/2014/04/DUS-FloorPlan-rev3.pdf

[Octavian]

Oh Ryan, regarding your DI post - the grand opening of DUS was pushed back to July 26. There will be a "soft opening" before that but some areas (including parts of great hall) won't be open to the public until then.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Octavian

Oh Ryan, regarding your DI post - the grand opening of DUS was pushed back to July 26. There will be a "soft opening" before that but some areas (including parts of great hall) won't be open to the public until then.

Yeah I just saw that this morning. Looks like I'll have to do double coverage on it!

Denver Union Station grand opening delayed

DENVER BUSINESS JOURNAL - The historic Denver Union Station building is still "on track" to open on July 12, but the official grand opening event has been moved to July 26, according to an announcement Wednesday from the developer, Union Station Alliance (USA).

USA is remodeling the old train station to include the 112-room Crawford Hotel plus stores and food outlets.

Shifting the grand opening back two weeks will allow the businesses time to have a "soft" opening and be prepared for larger crowds on the official opening, according to USA's announcement.

"As one would imagine, opening a historical building with 15 restaurant and retail concepts, two of Denver's hottest new bars and a 112-room independent hotel is a complicated feat," the team said in its announcement.

"In order to introduce the entire project to the community in the best manner possible, we have decided to host our official grand opening celebration on Saturday, July 26th , from 10 a.m. – 3 p.m. (previously scheduled on July 12th)," the announcement said.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

I vote for keeping the "etcetera" elements out of this thread. Everything being in one thread gets a bit unwieldy. We should be able to handle three basic threads: Development, Transportation, and everything else (MW Chitchat).

But half my entertainment value is from reading the many varying thoughts of "Regulars." Since I am NOT a regular I don't have a dog in this one but it is the Regulars that make the thread, keep it going and interesting "all these years."

Plus as Cirrus also stated in his new thread opening comment: "Also, be prepared for and accept that this thread sometimes digresses as the discussion ebbs and flows." I think that fairly captures the best of the thread. How one properly moderates that though is a task that gratefully I need not worry over. Certainly Cirrus makes a wonderful effort and I'm sure that is appreciated by all aside from different "content" suggestions and opinions.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Agreed. It's the "patio umbrella table" theory of urban revitalization.

Haha, I like it: "patio umbrella table" is one I hadn't heard before.

Certainly I join everybody in celebrating the "Grand Opening" of the redevelopment of Union Station and its front porches.

[Wizened Variations]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Agreed. It's the "patio umbrella table" theory of urban revitalization.

I just checked, there are ELEVEN more food/beverage establishments that haven't opened yet that will have direct ground-floor exposure to the plaza. Two in the new wing buildings and nine in the historic station. I know the two in the wing buildings will definitely have patio space on the plaza. I'm not sure if all of the nine in the historic station will, but at least four of the main restaurants will for sure. In my quick Google Earth measuring estimation, approximately 700 linear feet of Wynkoop Plaza frontage will be occupied by outdoor dining spaces.

There will this brief explosion of eateries then perhaps 50% or more will close within 3 years. The question, of course, is the cost of doing business there, which includes rent.

I know a few people in the restaurant business who all basically agree that rent costs cannot exceed 10-15% of business gross. For example, a $500k gross restaurant needs to keep rent expenditures under $75k per year (15%). For 3000 sq/ft (including kitchen) something around $25/ft sq max. This includes amortizing any improvement costs. Of course, poor ambience, bad food, and, mismanagement are over and above these costs.

I suspect perhaps 2 or 3 stable restaurants will emerge that will offer medium prices.

Right now everyone is the romance phase, which, is natural.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by RyanD

I'm just giving you a hard time.

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Maybe we could make a stickied thread that has links to all of the active topics? That seems like it would be pretty useful.

We used to have a stickied thread for exactly that purpose, but nobody used it and it took up valuable real estate at the top of the forum listing, so we got rid of it. We could do it again if people want.

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by Wizened Variations

I suspect perhaps 2 or 3 stable restaurants will emerge that will offer medium prices.

I'd love, just once, to see a Snooze location fail. Any restaurant that has waits every day and doesn't take reservations should fail.

Originally Posted by Cirrus

We used to have a stickied thread for exactly that purpose, but nobody used it and it took up valuable real estate at the top of the forum listing, so we got rid of it. We could do it again if people want.

No, that's dumb, because you don't know when to check it unless you see something new pop up at the top anyways. If we truly need a "guide to open threads" in order to see them, then perhaps we revisit giving Denver its own subforum. But I don't think either is necessary - people are just lazy.