PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Gee Whiz]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I guess the question is how serious they are about moving forward with residential. 1200+ new units there would be pretty cool.

That's my question. Will they be complacent with the cash flow they are generating from the parking and sit on the property for three, four, five years? I normally would be against a business standing in the way of a higher use. Until I see renderings, a time frame and concrete plans, I would rather there be a nightclub there. The Penguins promised us the same thing four or five years ago at the old Civic Arena site. What is still there? Parking.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Gee Whiz

Until I see renderings, a time frame and concrete plans, I would rather there be a nightclub there.

If the nightclub can force them to cough up one or more of those things, good on them.

[Gee Whiz]

These 316 spaces would be prime parking spaces because they would be right next to the Smithfield Street Bridge, right across from the T, and close to the Freight House Shops. They would be highly coveted spots and Forest City knows it. That is why they want to put the demolition of the East Warehouse on the fast track. Do you really think that they will put the residential element on the fast track after they see the success of these spaces and went through the effort to build the lot?

[Evergrey]

I think this is the first time I've heard firm plans for a functional addition to McKnight/Millcraft's proposed parking garage on the Saks site. 70 residential units is pretty measly... and I hope this is not the fruit of Peduto's alleged conversations with the developer... a huge waste of a prime spot.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...enovation-of-oliver-building-to-add.html

City OKs renovation of Oliver Building to add Embassy Suites

The owners of the Henry W. Oliver Building received final approval Tuesday from the Pittsburgh Planning Commission for the interior and exterior renovation for the new Embassy Suites Hotel on its empty floors.

The new hotel is being developed by McKnight Realty Partners on the Oliver Building's 14th to 25th floors, formerly occupied by the law firm K&L Gates.

McKnight partner Chuck Perlow said the demolition to make way for the new hotel is now 80 percent complete as the construction project works through a process that includes 2,000 pieces of drywall for each floor.

The project, including a rooftop pool and bar, is expected to take until the end of next year. The new hotel is being developed with a new garage across Forbes Avenue to replace the empty Saks Fifth Avenue. A project in partnership with Millcraft Industries and the Pittsburgh Parking Authority, the new garage structure is also expected to include 30,000 square feet of first-floor retail and 70 apartments above the parking. The development team will be able to announce retail tenants for the property in the next three weeks.

"My belief today is the garage will open before the hotel," Perlow said.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Gee Whiz

Do you really think that they will put the residential element on the fast track after they see the success of these spaces and went through the effort to build the lot?

Possibly! The parcel is big enough that they could do something in phases, so they wouldn't necessarily be immediately tearing these spots up. Of course my assumption is they can ultimately make more money building than operating surface lots.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I think this is the first time I've heard firm plans for a functional addition to McKnight/Millcraft's proposed parking garage on the Saks site. 70 residential units is pretty measly... and I hope this is not the fruit of Peduto's alleged conversations with the developer... a huge waste of a prime spot.

It was supposed to be 100 units earlier this year, so that is disappointing (see starting about 3:30 here):

http://youtu.be/Bzv4gTEoxZI

[Gee Whiz]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Possibly! The parcel is big enough that they could do something in phases, so they wouldn't necessarily be immediately tearing these spots up. Of course my assumption is they can ultimately make more money building than operating surface lots.

This is true. However, one would think that the residential units in the location of the East Warehouse would demand the highest price due to the same reasons I mentioned why Forest City is seemingly so enthusiastic about making it a parking lot. It is the most convenient parcel of them all that is east of the Smithfied Bridge and west of the Liberty Bridge due to it's proximity to the T, the bridge, and the rest of Station Square. I am only speculating also, but units in that location should sell more quickly than of others on the property, all else being equal.

[BrianTH]

I'm assuming there will be multiple layers of buildings, so I would think the riverfront units might actually command slightly higher prices. I also assume there has to be a parking structure somewhere at some point, and it might make sense to try to have it serve Station Square too, so eventually the warehouse corner might become the parking structure location.

In any event, I would think they would want to clear the whole parcel first, so they can start laying out the new drives, utilities, and such that they will need.

[Gee Whiz]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It was supposed to be 100 units earlier this year, so that is disappointing (see starting about 3:30 here):

http://youtu.be/Bzv4gTEoxZI

It does sound disappointing at first if you think for example that 100 units stacked above the parking structure would be the equivalent of ten stories. If in these last several months that they decided to go with 70 units, but larger units to attract families, it may achieve approximately the same height in an area around Mellon Park that should build higher to fit in with it's neighbors. There will be less units per floor which will lead to more height. Of course, we don't know the specifics. If scaling it down means that they will build the apartments or condos more quickly after the garage is built is good news if that indeed is the case.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Gee Whiz

If in these last several months that they decided to go with 70 units, but larger units to attract families, it may achieve approximately the same height in an area around Mellon Park that should build higher to fit in with it's neighbors. There will be less units per floor which will lead to more height.

That's a fair point. And if it was very high-end apartments/condos specifically, I could see that a combination of size and maximizing views could mean a relatively skinny and tall tower.

If scaling it down means that they will build the apartments or condos more quickly after the garage is built is good news if that indeed is the case.

Also a fair point, and in fact I can imagine Peduto being more focused on getting the second phase done quickly as opposed to maximizing the unit count.

[BrianTH]

Very tangential, but there is a new Brookings study out suggesting there is not really a looming crisis in student loans:

http://www.brookings.edu/research/reports/2014/06/24-student-loan-crisis-akers-chingos

The relevance is that people have sometimes argued that unsustainable student loans are like bubble-era mortgage practices in that they have fueled a higher education bubble which is bound to collapse, to the detriment of places with a lot of jobs in higher education. So to the extent that concern has been overstated, it is good news for places like Pittsburgh.

[dfiler]

Some interesting before/after photos over at the post gazette:

Pittsburgh Then and Now
http://multimedia.post-gazette.com/ThenNow/20120405_PNCPark/default.asp

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by dfiler

Some interesting before/after photos over at the post gazette:

One of my favorite of those is the Produce Terminal one, which is very bittersweet because pretty much nothing has changed except for the absence of trains in the modern photo. I think that is "sweet" as applied to the built section, but "bitter" as applied to the open space.

[Private Dick]

Map: Most gay-friendly neighborhoods of Pittsburgh

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2...burgh-What-are-they/stories/201406250178

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Map: Most gay-friendly neighborhoods of Pittsburgh

I believe what that maps shows is that gay couples love rapid transit (compare with this):

http://www.vatransit.com/files/practices/images_task5/b04-1.jpg

In other words, I think it is nice there is not a small number "gay-friendly" neighborhoods, but rather a large number of places which probably have appeal to gay couples mostly for other reasons.

[eschaton]

I do have to say I find it rather shocking there is not a single same-🞵🞵🞵 couple in Southside Flats or Oakland. Part of it might be because the gay population there tends to be single, but still, you'd expect one or two couples at minimum.

There are several other head scratchers too. Gay couples in Bloomfield north of Liberty, but not South? In Squirrel hill west of Murray, but not east? In Point Breeze north of Penn, but not South? And not a single gay couple in Garfield, Friendship, East Liberty, or the Strip District?

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I do have to say I find it rather shocking there is not a single same-🞵🞵🞵 couple in Southside Flats or Oakland. Part of it might be because the gay population there tends to be single, but still, you'd expect one or two couples at minimum.

There are several other head scratchers too. Gay couples in Bloomfield north of Liberty, but not South? In Squirrel hill west of Murray, but not east? In Point Breeze north of Penn, but not South? And not a single gay couple in Garfield, Friendship, East Liberty, or the Strip District?

Directly from the article:

Dots were randomly distributed within Census tracts and do not represent an actual household location.


Which kinda makes the map pretty useless, and not too accurate -- I would think.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Which kinda makes the map pretty useless, and not too accurate -- I would think.

Census tracts are generally OK for mapping--in the City they get you down to around the neighborhood level or a little better. But the dot approach is a little deceptive in that it creates the illusion of greater precision than that.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Census tracts are generally OK for mapping--in the City they get you down to around the neighborhood level or a little better. But the dot approach is a little deceptive in that it creates the illusion of greater precision than that.

Right, and I didn't realize that Pittsburgh's census tracts were that small and divided up. So I see eschaton's point...

[BrianTH]

A couple ELTC/East Side III articles . . .

Mosites is partnering with Morgan Management to operate the new apartments:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...h-morgan-management-on-new.html?page=all

And this article says construction is on schedule, with the plan being to open the first apartment phase next year (109 units), and the remainder at six month intervals (which sounds fine to me). It also has some photos:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...-east-liberty-transportation-center.html