Calgary Public Transit II

[joe498]

Originally Posted by fusili

If we want our downtown to continue to be the dominant office force it is today, we are going to have to invest massively in transit. There is no other option.

Agreed, just looking at population projections and current transit planning projections scares me.

Even if we secure funding to build the train to Quarry Park it would be a huge improvement. Quarry Park is growing fast and expected to be a downtown "extension" with many established neighborhoods surrounding it. 18th street traffic is pretty bad as is, let alone if Glenmore has an accident.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by fusili

With regards to our downtown, because it is isolated due to a river and a railway, there is no other option but to increase transit in a massive, massive way.

Or a downtown penetrator. Heck, we could pave over the Bow and turn it into nothing but inbound lanes. Sure downtown would be gridlock for 12 hours a day, but who cares? Hot and stuff train cars because I insist on leaving work at precisely 5pm!

Always remember, there's a worse option.

If we want our downtown to continue to be the dominant office force it is today, we are going to have to invest massively in transit. There is no other option.

It's more than just downtown being dominant. Calgary's built form, contrary to what many believe, simply couldn't handle multi-node office parks everywhere. We're no Houston, we don't have 12 lane freeways in every direction. I'd go so far as to say that Calgary's survival as a livable city is dependent on heavy investments in transit.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by freeweed

Or a downtown penetrator. Heck, we could pave over the Bow and turn it into nothing but inbound lanes. Sure downtown would be gridlock for 12 hours a day, but who cares? Hot and stuff train cars because I insist on leaving work at precisely 5pm!

Always remember, there's a worse option.



It's more than just downtown being dominant. Calgary's built form, contrary to what many believe, simply couldn't handle multi-node office parks everywhere. We're no Houston, we don't have 12 lane freeways in every direction. I'd go so far as to say that Calgary's survival as a livable city is dependent on heavy investments in transit.

Agreed on that also, it amazes me still that we top many "rankings" as the most livable city. Livability is such a diverse and debatable statistic. I value my time much more than income yet income often is the primary factor in "livability". Present cost of living in Calgary will only escalate our sprawl and will only continue making our projects that much more expensive.

To consider that the west LRT didn't have a connection to Mount Royal University and surrounding area is crazy considering how bad Crowchild is. Meanwhile Curry Barracks area and a huge chunk of land is projected to house another 20k+ people I believe?

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by joe498

If we are ever intending to build a green line LRT, the time is ASAP and 15 years is not anywhere near fast enough. Because even if an LRT is relevant still in 2030, if it is built to service Calgary in 2040 and beyond, we will have 2.3m people by then which again puts us far in the hole as far as infrastructure goes.

The suburbs are growing rapidly and they don't pay a cent to our infrastructure. We are crazy to not have a gas tax or toll roads.

Well they do pay development levies. And the land developer pays for the cost of all the infrastructure in the new community.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by MichaelS

Well they do pay development levies. And the land developer pays for the cost of all the infrastructure in the new community.

Cochrane, Okotoks and Chestemere all make use of our LRT system and use our parking stalls. Infrastructure not funded by development levies or land developers.

[MichaelS]

Originally Posted by joe498

Cochrane, Okotoks and Chestemere all make use of our LRT system and use our parking stalls. Infrastructure not funded by development levies or land developers.

No, nor are they funded out of property taxes either. The operating subsidy is I suppose, but the capital certainly isn't.

[DizzyEdge]

I'm not sure what to do about out of towners. On one hand I'd like them to pay more for LRT usage, but a the same time Id hate them to all just drive instead clogging up the roads.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I'm not sure what to do about out of towners. On one hand I'd like them to pay more for LRT usage, but a the same time Id hate them to all just drive instead clogging up the roads.

Fact is a lot of them DO drive and clog our roads causing wear and tear subsidized by Calgary taxpayers.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by joe498

Fact is a lot of them DO drive and clog our roads causing wear and tear subsidized by Calgary taxpayers.

I guess all you could do is toll the roads higher than the LRT fare.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

I'm not sure what to do about out of towners. On one hand I'd like them to pay more for LRT usage, but a the same time Id hate them to all just drive instead clogging up the roads.

Commuter rail?

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Commuter rail?

Don't necessarily see the appeal, since I don't think Calgarians really care about out of towners using the out of town highway, more concerned about recouping use of our in-town roads and rail (this is assuming the suggestion of commuter rail is commuter rail that ends at a terminus LRT station). Commuter rail from Cochrane right to downtown could be interesting, but we'd need some regional transit body to create that sort of thing.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Don't necessarily see the appeal, since I don't think Calgarians really care about out of towners using the out of town highway, more concerned about recouping use of our in-town roads and rail (this is assuming the suggestion of commuter rail is commuter rail that ends at a terminus LRT station). Commuter rail from Cochrane right to downtown could be interesting, but we'd need some regional transit body to create that sort of thing.

I heard talk a few months ago about using existing rail for commuting purposes, forget if it was CP or CN from Airdrie to Okotoks.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Don't necessarily see the appeal, since I don't think Calgarians really care about out of towners using the out of town highway, more concerned about recouping use of our in-town roads and rail (this is assuming the suggestion of commuter rail is commuter rail that ends at a terminus LRT station). Commuter rail from Cochrane right to downtown could be interesting, but we'd need some regional transit body to create that sort of thing.

I was thinking straight to downtown. To be honest though, it isn't likely to be workable with CN/CP owning the (crappy, single track) railways.

[DizzyEdge]

It would definitely make the fact those tracks go through downtown far more palatable if they all led to a downtown commuter train hub.

[Chadillaccc]

Could there ever be an elevated spur line from the West LRT spurring off at the Crowchild Trail overpass, to Mount Royal University?

[joe498]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Could there ever be an elevated spur line from the West LRT spurring off at the Crowchild Trail overpass, to Mount Royal University?

Apparently it was in the initial west LRT plan but some Councillors voted against it.

Bad move.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Could there ever be an elevated spur line from the West LRT spurring off at the Crowchild Trail overpass, to Mount Royal University?

Don't see why not, but it would either require reducing frequency on the existing leg, or increasing frequency of the core. The latter of course requires the 8th Ave subway, and also potentially creates excess capacity on the NE section or necessitates turnbacks.

[Chadillaccc]

The 202 line will not be using the 8th Avenue Subway. The plan has always been that 201 will go underground, and the 202 will continue to use 7th Avenue indefinitely.


Yes, that was a terrible move by the councillors to vote against it. Though, frequency on the 202 could definitely be increased to accomodate a train to and from Mount Royal every 10 minutes. Just less frequency than the main lines.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

The 202 line will not be using the 8th Avenue Subway. The plan has always been that 201 will go underground, and the 202 will continue to use 7th Avenue indefinitely.

Yes, but frequency cannot be increased on either while the 201 interlines with the 202.

[DizzyEdge]

Are the trains already at max frequency on 7th ave?