stal̕əw̓asəm (Riverview) Bridge (Pattullo Bridge Replacement) | U/C

[SFUVancouver]

^ We now owe more than 1.2 billion for the Golden Ears Bridge and we've yet to make a payment on the principle. That thing is a financial albatross around Translink's neck and it should be uploaded to the MoT along with the Patullo. Centralize tolling for all the new crossings with TI Corp & Treo.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The Golden Ears Bridge cost below 1 billion, and that included a nearly 3km long 6 lane bridge and an extensive network of new roads, including interchanges and a 700 meter long viaduct.

It was also several years ago, a greenfield site as opposed to a freeway and a low/mid level crossing as opposed to a high level crossing. All that keeps the costs down.

[makr3trkr]

http://www.royalcityrecord.com/news/metr...port-four-lane-pattullo-bridge-1.1127656

"The Mayors’ Council on Regional Transportation is supporting a four-lane replacement for the Pattullo Bridge – with the ability to expand to six lanes if it’s ever needed.

According to the mayors’ council, a new four-lane Pattullo Bridge will create a safer, faster and more reliable connection to Metro Vancouver.

“It will have modern lane widths, better connections, a centre barrier and high-quality cycling and pedestrian facilities,” states the mayors’ council’s website. “The new bridge will be designed to keep the possibility of future expansion to six lanes, if need arises, to meet demand increased beyond current forecasts.”


==================


No one else in the region was willing to entertain New West's delusion that a replacement bridge with a 100 year lifespan would not be expandable.

[Klazu]

I hope the ability to expand means that they can just re-paint the lanes. Four lane bridge is otherwise quite a let down given that it won't be much of a difference in price. New Westminster seems to have won this round.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Klazu

I hope the ability to expand means that they can just re-paint the lanes. Four lane bridge is otherwise quite a let down given that it won't be much of a difference in price. New Westminster seems to have won this round.

If they manage to put this through with tolling then that will be the real win. You can control congestion with tolls pretty easily. And if the rest of the transit proposals go through then it gives folks who don't want to pay the tolls a viable alternative.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

If they manage to put this through with tolling then that will be the real win. You can control congestion with tolls pretty easily. And if the rest of the transit proposals go through then it gives folks who don't want to pay the tolls a viable alternative.

Is this it? The regional consensus (avec New West's blessing) that we've all be been waiting for? If so:

I have to admit, a four-lane tolled Patullo replacement,built with a centre barrier and generous space for pedestrians would be a very good solution here. It is true that the crossing probably should be six lanes, but the tolling will shunt much of the Port Mann 'diversion' traffic back to the Port Mann, or along the SFPR to the Alex Fraser.

This business of 'expandable to 6' would likely mean the bridge deck will be built wide enough for 6 traffic lanes (strong enough), but expansion would probably require moving the pedestrian space onto the outside via cantilevered expansion space... just my guess; otherwise you'd actually need to build the thing wide enough for 8 lanes (space for 6 traffic lanes, center barrier, and modern widths for pedestrian / cycling space on both sides).

Either way, I'm supportive of this, since the primary concern of the old Patullo is just that -- its OLD, and it very well could collapse with the next moderate earthquake, let alone the Big One. Its also extremely unsafe with narrow lane widths, and unable to accommodate pedestrians. These issues, in the past considered secondary to capacity expansion, are front and centre in the improvement package this time.

Hopefully the necessary improvements to the bridge head in New Westminster aren't going to be an issue, and result in some ridiculous traffic-calmed 30km/hr, s-curve, speed bump mess.

[deasine]

Well I think the problem is the project is just the bridge. Until the roads in New West can be expanded, having three lanes would not make sense as the bottleneck would be in the local road network.

[makr3trkr]

There is a surplus of lanes in New West.

If 1 lane drops at Brunette, 1 lane drops at Royal, that leaves only 1 lane left for McBride.

Going the other direction, 1 lane from McBride + 1 from Royal + 1 from Front/Columbia/Brunette.

That's 6 justifiable minimum. And there is easily room for 6+ lanes at the bridgehead.

[Zassk]

You guys don't think the McBride connector through Burnaby won't be built at the same time? I thought Burnaby already owns all of the necessary property?

[makr3trkr]

Originally Posted by Zassk

You guys don't think the McBride connector through Burnaby won't be built at the same time? I thought Burnaby already owns all of the necessary property?

The problem is they are also the landlord for all of those rental properties and it would likely be a publicity nightmare to evict all those people for a "freeway."

Nevermind that all those lots would probably be redeveloped sooner rather than later anyway.

[EastVanMark]

"The Mayors’ Council on Regional Transportation is supporting a four-lane replacement for the Pattullo Bridge – with the ability to expand to six lanes if it’s ever needed." = Day 2 after opening

[Genauso]

This is a bit out of left field, and it won't even be up for discussion until after the Translink referendum, but has anyone proposed relocating the Patullo bridge downriver such that it crosses approximately from 104 Ave in Surrey to 12th or 8th St in New Westminster?

As I see it:
- New Westminster reduces through-traffic that cuts their communities in half, their primary concern
- Surrey gets more lane capacity sooner because construction does not have to accommodate the existing Patullo or its immediate repairs, and there is the option for greater lane capacity in the future with less resistance as it largely goes around New Westminster
- the new route spreads out the Fraser river crossings a little, and it is shorter

The benefits to New Westminster may be significant enough that they will accept resurrecting the North Fraser perimeter Rd, allowing more traffic at its edges in exchange for freeing up their core. Without the traffic, McBride Blvd + Newcombe St could become a big bike route linking Queen's Park to Burnaby Lake.

I know there is an attempt to reconnect New West to its waterfront, but is there a way to satisfy everyone? Maybe a section of concrete roof above a N Fraser Perimeter Rd, with grass on the roof like LA's Park 101, with unimpeded pedestrian access to the waterfront park?

This is just an offhand suggestion from looking at a map, what does someone who lives in New West or Whalley think about it?


As for Burnaby and the McBride connector, Canada Way to Hwy 1 already exists and links on through to Lougheed Hwy via Kensington. Canada Way in Burnaby becomes 8th St in New West, even if the new Patullo were at 12th St it wouldn't be unreasonable to use that as an option as 1A currently goes along 10th Ave between 8th St and 12th St. If that doesn't work and it's important enough, Griffiths Dr / Imperial St or Edmonds St further north in Burnaby would make sense too. There would be 3 good North-South connections between N Fraser Prm Rd - Hwy 1 - Lougheed Hwy at Columbia St, Canada Way, and Boundary Rd.

Add in a new Richmond - Vancouver bridge at Boundary Rd, and you reinforce everything while taking some load off New West at the Queensborough connector and also at the squeezed Oak St bridge. Bring North Van onboard with a tunnel extending from Lonsdale to Clark Dr / Kingsway, with emphasis on transit service to replace the SeaBus... or go wild with a Deep Cove to Belcarra connection from Mt Seymour Pkwy.

Any referendum on a small vision is biased to fail, so file this away as something to jumpstart Translink in 2015.

[makr3trkr]

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/07/27/translink-rejects-new-west-truck-request

TransLink made the decision at its July 18 board meeting to keep trucks on Royal Avenue, East Eighth Avenue and parts of East Columbia Street.

A decision on a fourth street, Ewen Avenue, has been deferred.

“We understand the City of New Westminster’s concerns about the impact of truck routes in the community, and we have directed TransLink to work with the city towards a long-term solution,” said Marcella Szel, board chairwoman, in the statement.

New West residents such as Diane Butler, the president of the local Downtown Residents’ Association, see the decision as a disservice to the muncipality.

“Where’s the logic in all this? The trucks don’t really do anything for us, we’re just a way back and forth — we’re a means to get to the bridge.”

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

The trucks don’t really do anything for us, we’re just a way back and forth — we’re a means to get to the bridge.”

oh a "whats in it for me" attitude. maybe if they don't want trucks they should move their city from such a central location to somewhere more in the prairies. the NFPR cant be looking like such a bad idea now. all the trucks off those routes and away from communities.

[GMasterAres]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

oh a "whats in it for me" attitude. maybe if they don't want trucks they should move their city from such a central location to somewhere more in the prairies. the NFPR cant be looking like such a bad idea now. all the trucks off those routes and away from communities.

*facepalm* "the trucks don't do anything for us." No they only keep the economy going and the goods that person buys in the local Safeway or the popcorn they buy at the theater in Plaza 88, or the wood that is building new houses, or the electricity powering the SkyTrain and so on and so fourth. That gas they fill up their cars with.. that just magically got there. Not like trucks had anything to do with it.

You know that economy thing is so overrated. Just like YVR has _0_ effect on all the other cities outside of Richmond so they should stop planes flying over New Westminster making loud noise... </sarcasm>

Do the news reporters purposely go out to find opinions from complete ignorant idiots? </sigh>

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by jhausner

*facepalm* "the trucks don't do anything for us." No they only keep the economy going and the goods that person buys in the local Safeway or the popcorn they buy at the theater in Plaza 88, or the wood that is building new houses, or the electricity powering the SkyTrain and so on and so fourth. That gas they fill up their cars with.. that just magically got there. Not like trucks had anything to do with it.

You know that economy thing is so overrated. Just like YVR has _0_ effect on all the other cities outside of Richmond so they should stop planes flying over New Westminster making loud noise... </sarcasm>

Do the news reporters purposely go out to find opinions from complete ignorant idiots? </sigh>

i read a quote in the 24hrs newspaper that said "if they want this [trucks through New West] then build roads and accommodate truck traffic and get out of residential neighborhoods." Diane Butler said that apparently.

TranksLink wanted to build exactly that! but New West didn't want it. what is wrong with those people???

"booo no NFPR!!! omg why sre there so many trucks on residential streets???" it is like some of these NW residents expect truck traffic to just vanish over night without doing anything at all. it is the same stupid thing about NW wanting a 1 lane bailey bridge. no, not 1 lane each way. but 1 lane alternating. it boggles the mind.

[cabotp]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/07/27/translink-rejects-new-west-truck-request

TransLink made the decision at its July 18 board meeting to keep trucks on Royal Avenue, East Eighth Avenue and parts of East Columbia Street.

A decision on a fourth street, Ewen Avenue, has been deferred.

“We understand the City of New Westminster’s concerns about the impact of truck routes in the community, and we have directed TransLink to work with the city towards a long-term solution,” said Marcella Szel, board chairwoman, in the statement.

New West residents such as Diane Butler, the president of the local Downtown Residents’ Association, see the decision as a disservice to the muncipality.

“Where’s the logic in all this? The trucks don’t really do anything for us, we’re just a way back and forth — we’re a means to get to the bridge.”

As far as I know Ewen Avenue isn't even a designated truck route and most truck drivers go along Boyd Ave. Most of the traffic on ewen ave are private vehicles coming from annacis island to get to the queens borough bridge.

[WarrenC12]

I don't like how 24 Hrs framed the decision as "Translink not listening to local residents", and put it on the cover.

Clearly they are trying to capitalize on the negative sentiment towards Translink lately, but they made the right call here.

[makr3trkr]

http://www.royalcityrecord.com/news/new-...r-truck-route-changes-rejected-1.1266353

Theresa McManus / Royal City Record
July 29, 2014 12:45 PM

“Not the decision New Westminster was looking for, and part of the decision is not what we were expecting,” said Coun. Jonathan Cote, co-chair of the city’s master transportation plan committee. “Certainly from the city’s perspective, we are disappointed with the response, in particular regarding East Columbia, East Eighth and Ewen Avenue. We felt there was a very strong case to remove those right away as the justification of those being truck routes right now didn’t really make a lot of sense and was having an unnecessary negative impact on the livability of those neighbourhoods.”

While the city thought a decision about those three routes would be straightforward, Cote said it recognized Royal Avenue could take a little bit longer to achieve and would likely coordinate with plans for replacing the Pattullo Bridge.

Although traffic has always been heavy on Royal Avenue, Lorenzi said he’s seen an increase in heavy trucks since tolls were introduced on the Port Mann Bridge.

“I support a tolled replacement to the Pattullo. I take it every day and I support it,” he said. “Let’s level the playing field. I think it’s got to be more fair and equitable.”

[red-paladin]

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