PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[ksb]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

2.7m sf but only 3700 employees!? Should be shooting for 8000 employees min.

Remember, it's not all office space -- the overall project includes "housing, stores, labs, offices, parking and maybe a public school."

[apetrella802]

Originally Posted by ksb

Remember, it's not all office space -- the overall project includes "housing, stores, labs, offices, parking and maybe a public school."

Brandywine Realty Trust on May 14 broke ground for the FMC Tower at Cira Centre South. The 49-story, 730-foot-tall tower with 2.7 million square feet (SF) will have 10-foot, floor-to-ceiling glass walls, 861,000 SF of rentable space that will include 622,000 SF of office space, 268 luxury apartments and executive suites, and a bar/restaurant on the ground floor, according to Brandywine’s press release. Amenities will include an aquatic center with pool and deck, fitness center and spa, and a state-of-the-art business conference center.

[JustSomeGuyWho]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

2.7m sf but only 3700 employees!? The current Comcast bldg is only 1.4m sf and has more employees. Sounds like a very low rise less than urban density ratio. Should be shooting for 8000 employees min.

In addition to what the ScreamShatter pointed out, this also includes housing. This isn't 2.7m sf of floor space packed with cubicles. It's mixed use.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

2.7m sf but only 3700 employees!? The current Comcast bldg is only 1.4m sf and has more employees. Sounds like a very low rise less than urban density ratio. Should be shooting for 8000 employees min.

The project will also be residential.

[1487]

Originally Posted by relnahe

The project will also be residential.

not to mention lab space isnt going to have the worker per sf ratio of office space. Either way, its a lot of jobs- if they ever build out the site fully. Thats ab big "if" in my book. This sounds like a 5 year project at the least.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

It seems you're lamenting the current stage/timeframe of development center city is in, rather than any true differences between center city and university city. UC has more cranes in the air because proposals happened to come earlier, not because of any lack of development in center city.

In 2015 you're likely to see 3 times more development in CC than in UC, not because UC is doing bad by any measure, but just because of an arbitrary date you decide to look in the sky.

Thats not what I was saying at all. I was saying that a higher % of projects that have been announced or proposed in UC have gone forward in a timely manner. Lots of major CC projects have been announced or proposed that have gone nowhere. 1919 is one of the biggest culprits. We also seem to have a lot of projects in CC that get shown to the public long before all financing or approvals are in place. The girard estate project comes to mind.

[JustSomeGuyWho]

Originally Posted by 1487

Thats not what I was saying at all. I was saying that a higher % of projects that have been announced or proposed in UC have gone forward in a timely manner. Lots of major CC projects have been announced or proposed that have gone nowhere. 1919 is one of the biggest culprits. We also seem to have a lot of projects in CC that get shown to the public long before all financing or approvals are in place. The girard estate project comes to mind.

I would guess projects in CC have a lot more hoops to jump through than UC.

Also, I am not sure how the financing works for most of the university driven building in UC but my guess is that once they've decided to do it, it is pretty much a done deal. I am sure both Drexel and Penn are sitting on a lot of money and financing AND viability/profitability are not question marks.

I don't think comparing development in CC with what is going on in UC is an apples to apples comparison.

[Flyers2001]

More Pics of AQ construction? Does this project not qualify for its own thread. If so heading forward I will post pic updates in general development thread.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

More Pics of AQ construction? Does this project not qualify for its own thread. If so heading forward I will post pic updates in general development thread.

Apparently not.

It should since it meets the requirements being 12 floors and 151 feet tall, however I created a thread twice for it and both times it was moved to the General Development subforum.

Oh well. Just post pics in general development

[summersm343]

More conventions returning to the Pennsylvania Convention Center.

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...-new-union-rules-expo-returns-to-pa.html

[1487]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuyWho

I would guess projects in CC have a lot more hoops to jump through than UC.

Also, I am not sure how the financing works for most of the university driven building in UC but my guess is that once they've decided to do it, it is pretty much a done deal. I am sure both Drexel and Penn are sitting on a lot of money and financing AND viability/profitability are not question marks.

I don't think comparing development in CC with what is going on in UC is an apples to apples comparison.

dont know about all that but I do know UC has 4 privately funded apt complexes going up right now while CC only has one for now. There are a few major conversions going on in CC which is probably one reason why there is less immediate market demand for ground up high rise lux apt construction in the core of the city. There is a lot more inventory in CC than UC and that could be why the projects over there (residential at least) have moved forward aggressively after being announced.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by 1487

dont know about all that but I do know UC has 4 privately funded apt complexes going up right now while CC only has one for now. There are a few major conversions going on in CC which is probably one reason why there is less immediate market demand for ground up high rise lux apt construction in the core of the city. There is a lot more inventory in CC than UC and that could be why the projects over there (residential at least) have moved forward aggressively after being announced.

AQ Rittenhouse and 1900 Arch are both under construction in Center City. THe 1100 Block of Chestnut is under construction as well. Southstar Lofts just wrapped up. 2040 Market, Granary, Sansom and 2116 Chestnut just finished up last year. Within this year we should see several more apartment buildings starting in Center City: One Water Street, Rodin Square, Museum Towers II, 1919 Market, One Riverside and possibly 1601 Vine as well are all expected to break ground this year and are apartment buildings. I just think it's a lull right now in between the first wave of apartment development and the next wave. It will pick up again.

[Baconboy007]

Originally Posted by 1487

dont know about all that but I do know UC has 4 privately funded apt complexes going up right now while CC only has one for now. There are a few major conversions going on in CC which is probably one reason why there is less immediate market demand for ground up high rise lux apt construction in the core of the city. There is a lot more inventory in CC than UC and that could be why the projects over there (residential at least) have moved forward aggressively after being announced.

Could also be the trend in younger millennials renting in or close to the city. Today's graduates, that aren't moving back in with their parents, aren't moving into the burbs. I would imagine a lot of them would stay close to the school they went to and maybe even take grad classes so they don't have to join the working world.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Baconboy007

Could also be the trend in younger millennials renting in or close to the city. Today's graduates, that aren't moving back in with their parents, aren't moving into the burbs. I would imagine a lot of them would stay close to the school they went to and maybe even take grad classes so they don't have to join the working world.

Well with the CHOP expansion, FMC Tower and other proposals (Waterfront II), the gulph between University and Center City will soon disappear. It will always have a river separating the two, but the two will be even closer in character as these new buildings are completed. You will scarcely find a Chicago resident making the argument that the Trump Building is in a completely separate neighborhood as the Hancock Building. A river separates them, but with the advent of development on both sides of the Chicago River, the two neighborhoods have engaged in a de facto merger.

University City and Center city will appear similarly merged in the years to come.

[Koernerstr32]

^ Interesting point in regards to UC/CC coming together although separated by a river. Needs to be noted that although Chicago has many examples of buildings on either side of the river, Trump and Hancock are both located on the north side of the main river (river north and streeterville sections) so there's no river separating the two...just more skyscrapers.

[josef]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Well with the CHOP expansion, FMC Tower and other proposals (Waterfront II), the gulph between University and Center City will soon disappear. It will always have a river separating the two, but the two will be even closer in character as these new buildings are completed. You will scarcely find a Chicago resident making the argument that the Trump Building is in a completely separate neighborhood as the Hancock Building. A river separates them, but with the advent of development on both sides of the Chicago River, the two neighborhoods have engaged in a de facto merger.

University City and Center city will appear similarly merged in the years to come.

That is pretty exciting. My dream is that we figure out how to make the Schuylkill through the city look as good as some cities make their rivers. I've been to several Philadelphia-scale European cities, and I always notice how the fabric of the city approaches their rivers instead of turning their back to it, like I feel we ended up doing over the last 50-60 years with both the Schuylkill and the Delaware. We are certainly starting to see a turnaround on the on the Center City side. Now if only we can un-uglify the west side with the expressway...

Example: The Rhône through Lyon.

[tsarstruck]

More good news on the PA Convention Center front, as another convention (the National Black MBA Association) is coming back to Philly after the advent of the new work rules. This one, in particular, is a big deal, as they pulled out of coming in 2014 because of the old rules:

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...-new-union-rules-expo-returns-to-pa.html

[christof]

Originally Posted by Koernerstr32

^ Interesting point in regards to UC/CC coming together although separated by a river. Needs to be noted that although Chicago has many examples of buildings on either side of the river, Trump and Hancock are both located on the north side of the main river (river north and streeterville sections) so there's no river separating the two...just more skyscrapers.

For decades, Philly desired to develop its waterfront. The problem is that city leaders and developers were focusing on the wrong riverfront to develop...

[cafeguy]

Originally Posted by christof

For decades, Philly desired to develop its waterfront. The problem is that city leaders and developers were focusing on the wrong riverfront to develop...

hell yes. I have thought this for the longest time. So much money has been put into planning for the Delaware while the Schukyll quietly became Phill'ys premier waterfront.

[iheartphilly]

Can anyone point to any businesses lined along the Schuylkill river within Philly's urban fabric to justify a vibrant and commercial waterfront? I would love to see highrises (FMC, Evo), restaurants and cafes run adjacent to the river and have it connected by a large meandering walkway from PMA to South Bank. Patrons would have access to river views, etc.

It would be nice to also get rid of the I-76 highway noise from points of the PMA to South Bank.