Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

nothing is cooler than just stepping into a whole in the sidewalk and all of a sudden be on a trip to anywhere

i have to agree. i love how NYC has those tiny station entrances, just stairways, to get into them. put one on each corner and it is great. i love how great the NYC system is. stations like that would be perfect for an underground system down Broadway. just put a bunch of those little step entrances and have all the tunnels/steps/stations all underground. it saves a lot of space above because there isn't much on Broadway anyways.

yeah the L is very ugly. it is always good having trains running past windows just feet away. and wow, gotta love that rust and the creaking to. those don't turn areas into dumps at all.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by rsxstock

thanks for showing that picture... it just proves how ugly it is.

So the issue here really that its ugly rather than...

Originally Posted by rsxstock

elevated line is not physically possible on broadway since there is no median for the columns and the line would be just meters beside buildings.

I too concur with jhausner...

Originally Posted by ssiguy

It wouldn't matter if the median down Broadway was 100 meters, this is the Westside and that means a tunnel and there will be no tall towers along it either.

Tall towers blocking the sun over once peaceful neighbourhoods and loud trains is only for the Eastside and the power brokers in this city would get a nose bleed if they went east of Main.

This is totally spot on!

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i have to agree. i love how NYC has those tiny station entrances, just stairways, to get into them. put one on each corner and it is great. i love how great the NYC system is. stations like that would be perfect for an underground system down Broadway. just put a bunch of those little step entrances and have all the tunnels/steps/stations all underground. it saves a lot of space above because there isn't much on Broadway anyways.

yeah the L is very ugly. it is always good having trains running past windows just feet away. and wow, gotta love that rust and the creaking to. those don't turn areas into dumps at all.

I've never been to New York City, but I loved those entrances when I was in Paris. I've always wondered why we feel the need to build giant boxes to lead people underground, especially on the Canada Line.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I've always wondered why we feel the need to build giant boxes to lead people underground, especially on the Canada Line.

It's to keep the rain out of the stairwells and escalators.

[rsxstock]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

So the issue here really that its ugly rather than...



I too concur with jhausner...



This is totally spot on!

bravo on choosing what you want to quote and discarding everything else... like i said, the columns will block off the sidewalk

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's to keep the rain out of the stairwells and escalators.

I guess, but it doesn't need to take up the same space as a house. Integration into buildings would be cool too.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by memememe76

I never realized people hated the elevated line. I love the elevated lines, myself. With underground lines, you can't do those Youtube videos where they show the development of Vancouver's skyline while taking the Expo Line.

I won't speak to the physical limitations of an elevated line, but is the political environment in favour of an underground line? I thought businesses along Broadway would prefer an underground to avoid the problem the Cambie St businesses faced. And if it's more expensive to build underground, I would think most taxpayers would take the cheaper option.

The Point Grey residents are another story, I grant you.

As many know here I am also a huge supporter of elevated transit structures. I love them and I feel they add a huge urban texture to an area, especially if the urban fabric is built creatively around them.

I actually feel #3 road in Richmond now looks better with the Canada Line and the subsequent road and sidewalk improvements than it did before. It feels far more urban and i am happy they have been using lighting effects and art work to help integrate the columns.

Living in Japan is any infrastructure nerds wet dream. Everywhere is above ground and underground transit / road structures. That layers make the city so much more interesting.

That being said, I do believe that subway is the best fit for Broadway. Even though I love elevated structures, I also know they are not a one size fits all.

In the final few kilometers out to UBC it very much should be elevated, subway there is just crazy and a waste of money.

[Genauso]

The final 2km is the University Golf course, now owned by the Musqueam band. Could they save money going elevated for that distance and only one station?

I know elevated is symbolically important to present a sense of fairness, but each mode has their own setup and deconstruction stages. Plus they need distance to plan the incline so the station tracks are flat.

Doing a cut and cover section for the UBC station and tunnel boring machine entry would seem to be the cheapest option. If it makes anyone feel better, the line wouldn't pass within sight of practically any Point Grey residents even if it were elevated. I assume renters on Broadway don't count.

I don't think there are any hard planning problems for these grade separated transit lines. I do think there is a problem, and that's regional identities coupled with their expectations for the future. Having posted some historical videos before, I can say it is under appreciated how certain regional cities are 30-60 years behind the metro core. That's what counts, not a decontextualized growth rate which could be used to suggest from the Olympic Village area's 35% growth rate that Vancouver will be as big as Beijing in 10 years.

We can't maintain afford to maintain prior standards of what lines get built when. The first expo line was built when there was no demand. The second Burnaby line was built when gasoline was falling from cheap to 35 cents a litre, and before demographics would drive demand and in areas where it was even less likely.

Instead of reaching for headlines and reactions, we should look to somewhere like New York City to understand our own region, with its boroughs that are distinct geographically and most importantly culturally. Manhattan peaked in population 100 years ago, but it's always been 1st and held on to its niches. Brooklyn has had a renaissance, by taking leadership of niches that Manhattan wasn't. It's not a zero sum game, so differences should be embraced at every level and the notion that one city can replace another in a certain ranking by coercing people to abandon another spot is damned foolish.

Addressing peoples' emotions through transit funding is wearisome. Hopefully it's only 10 more years until self-driving cars/trucks make a difference so we can face a different set of problems like the shift from the interurban lines to personal cars and cheap suburban real estate that lasted from ~1950-1980.

[DKaz]

UBC itself may welcome the presence of an elevated Skytrain line. Some of the residents' opinions may differ.

[SFUVancouver]

I agree with the notion of an elevated section from Blanca to the UBC terminus. Indeed, I would love it if it were to be lofted very high, enough to put it at tree-top level and offer spectacular views. This would also simultaneously act to reduce audible ground-level noise from the train and give plenty of surface area for Richmond-style column trellises to allow the concrete to be screened with green. The columns could also serve as a canvas for large-format curated public art, interesting variations on texturing and forming concrete, or even (if you want to be a bit silly) you could wrap the columns in the same faux tree trunk wrap that was installed on that odd extra column on the Central development in Southeast False Creek.

[xd_1771]

BREAKING: They're planning for Arbutus................ only.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

BREAKING: They're planning for Arbutus................ only.

And that is how it should be! You wanna tunnel, then you have to compromise and don't build all the way. If you want all the way to UBC, you have to compromise...meaning save money and elevate it Chicago style!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

And that is how it should be! You wanna tunnel, then you have to compromise and don't build all the way. If you want all the way to UBC, you have to compromise...meaning save money and elevate it Chicago style!

.... but elevating it Chicago style is so freakingly hideously ugly .... on Broadway West, Broadway East, any major street in Vancouver (with the possible exception of going through industrial zones)

Couldn't they extend it to Alma? No, too $$$$$$$$ I would think.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

BREAKING: They're planning for Arbutus................ only.

Looks to me like a reasonable compromise in order to get near-unanimous agreement on a regional transit strategy among the mayors. The province tossed the buck to the mayors, and they've responded. Let's see what happens now that the buck's back in the province's court.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

BREAKING: They're planning for Arbutus................ only.

Absurd. It should go all the way to UBC.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Absurd. It should go all the way to UBC.

Total agreement, but I think it's a question of having enough $$$$ to spread around. There just isn't, it seems.

[jlousa]

I'm sure if the mayors vote to increase property taxes they can acutually make this plan viable. I get the feeling they are still expecting the Province to pay for things though.
I also like them terminating the line at Arbutus, the ball would then be in UBC's court to contribute towards extending it onto campus.

[WarrenC12]

The Arbutus extension is priced at $1.9B in the plan (2015 dollars).

The LRT in Surrey is priced at $2.4B.

Sounds like they are trying to divide things fairly from a $$ perspective.

[usog]

Yes! Cooler heads prevail with the Arbutus extension. Looks like UBC isn't getting skytrain until 20 years down the road unless they cough up money. This is the most realistic option and given the competing priorities the correct one.

[Steveston]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I guess, but it doesn't need to take up the same space as a house. Integration into buildings would be cool too.

The Waterfront Station entrance/exits on Granville Street (Canada Line) and Howe Street (Expo Line) are pretty compact.