Rapid Transit

[matt602]

Also the same technology as the Scarborough RT and I think we know how that one went. Dodged a bullet there.

[Dr Awesomesauce]

This technology has worked quite well in Vancouver but then Vancouver's been run by some very competent people over the past 40+ years. I think we all know how it would have turned out in Hamilton. However, the status quo hasn't been too hot either, so...

[ScreamingViking]

I was pretty young when this debate was going on, but I remember some of it. I seem to recall noise and the intrusiveness of the structures being a big issue for a lot of people, aside from the issues mentioned in the story. I have to wonder if having other design options up for discussion could have helped (e.g., surface tracks, though I'd imagine a loss of street lanes would have been a huge issue for people back then too)

It certainly would have been a bold decision, and who knows where we'd be today in terms of rapid transit... would the line have been extended or others built, or would that initial route have remained as-is? Would people be more open to surface LRT today?

The impact on downtown is hard to speculate too - it would have made commuting from the mountain easier, but downtown in the 1980s-90s was declining due to other factors. Today with employment growing there again, it would be a positive influence.

[matt602]

My personal guess is that it would have been an ugly white elephant, much like the people mover in Detroit. Something like that needs really excellent land planning like Vancouver has had over the past few decades, otherwise it just becomes an ugly, under-utilized eyesore.

[ScreamingViking]

I just re-read a set of articles I'd saved regarding the ICTS (from 1981, "The Great Linear Seduction" was on the first page). It took a critical look at the proposal and proponents, but in other sections it's uncanny how many of the same points being debated today were raised more than three decades ago. History may indeed be repeating.

There was a section on cheaper ways to improve the HSR and build demand - using bus lanes, transit priority signaling, improved east-west electric trolley service, and a new north-south trolley route. Did this kind of discussion eventually result in the B-Line? (and introduction of the A-Line much later?) We all know what happened to the trolleys.

Looks like thistleclub had posted it here in the forum but the link below no longer points to the PDF document, and I can't find it anywhere online (the Hamilton Transit History site may have had a copy but that website doesn't seem to be working any more)

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Excerpt from a 1981 magazine feature on the "Intermediate Capacity Transit System" proposed for Hamilton back in the day.

[thistleclub]

I missed it earlier this aft, but @EricGillis tweeted:

LRT: @TedMcMeekin "It isn't a priority... would make sense in the future" True colours shining through. #HamOnt #onpoli #IStandForLRT

Silence from the ADFW Liberal candidate, but his former EA and 2011 Ontario Liberal HESC candidate Mark Cripps has gamely stepped in with some endearing don't-be-so-ungrateful spin.


Will have a look for that ICTS PDF. It's currently MIA.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Silence from the ADFW Liberal candidate, but his former EA and 2011 Ontario Liberal HESC candidate Mark Cripps has gamely stepped in with some endearing don't-be-so-ungrateful spin.

Very lovely on his part. Stunning that someone would still have the audacity to question the Liberals on an issue when they have plied us with all of those wonderful gifts.

[thistleclub]

Earlier today the NDP released email documents detailing what they have described as Metrolinx's "astro-turf campaign designed to suppress public criticism and manufacture the appearance of grassroots support."

Those emails are from 2012 but they recall the agency's 2008 Positioning and Communications Strategy. (H/T Steve Munro)

[thistleclub]

LRT rolls into Hamilton East-Stoney Creek debate
(Hamilton Spectator, Daniel Nolan, June 1 2014)

Candidates for Hamilton East-Stoney Creek hammered away at light rail transit, the Liberal budget and school closures at the Cable 14 TV debate.

Liberal candidate Ivan Luksic does not support light rail transit (LRT) for Hamilton and his divergence from the party line was the focus of questions from NDP candidate and incumbent Paul Miller....

NDP and LRT
Miller: "We have been behind the LRT since Day One. We understand we need to invest in our city to make it grow."

Luksic and LRT
Luksic: People say to me that the LRT is not necessary. I'm not listening to a Toronto bureaucracy. I'm listening to the people of this city ... I'm looking for a transit solution. I'm not looking for a pie in the sky delusion."

Luksic and LRT 2
Miller: "It appears you are for congestion ... LRT has been a successful project in Cleveland and Seattle. Cleveland's downtown was dead and they brought the LRT in and it's now booming."

Read it in full here.

[matt602]

I wonder why the Liberal candidate kinda flip flopped there...

"The reason people don't want to vote is because they don't like the options."

Well at least he got that one bang on.

[drpgq]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

Earlier today the NDP released email documents detailing what they have described as Metrolinx's "astro-turf campaign designed to suppress public criticism and manufacture the appearance of grassroots support."

Those emails are from 2012 but they recall the agency's 2008 Positioning and Communications Strategy. (H/T Steve Munro)

I would love to see some internal Metrolinx emails on Hamilton's LRT plans. My guess would be that they would reflect that the bureaucracy would much prefer to spend as little as possible in Hamilton.

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by drpgq

I would love to see some internal Metrolinx emails on Hamilton's LRT plans. My guess would be that they would reflect that the bureaucracy would much prefer to spend as little as possible in Hamilton.

Certainly pre-2009, when the agency's governance structure was overhauled. Hard to imagine now that it has been reduced to an an agency mainly notable for repackaging the status quo and bumbling through episodes of technological pratfalls, requisite nepotism and marketing misadventures, but Metrolinx was originally supposed to be an independent agency (though that independence has been largely stripped away).

It is significant that the promise of LRT was not introduced by the agency but by campaigning politicians (Metrolinx had pencilled in "rapid transit"). The vacillation we have seen since then – as well as ham-fisted by-election politicking from a minister who would go on to introduce legislation that would make long-range planning sacrosanct and ideological backflips that made the agency an open joke -- does suggest a rethink might be going on. The government now regularly defers to Metrolinx's best judgement, an attitude that was scarcely conceivable during the hotly contested Scarborough by-election. The transit wrangling of that by-election will almost certainly impact the way the agency comes to evaluate Hamilton's business case for LRT.

Then again, the door is open for reviewing pretty much everything. Escape hatches are built into every project and proposal, and the entire Big Move is up for review in two years' time. It's not impossible to imagine that adjustments might be in the offing.

[thistleclub]

As Minister of Transportation, she swapped LRT for all-day GO trains. Now she encourages Hamilton to be clear about what it really wants.

Wynne says Liberal division on LRT makes it important to hear from Hamilton
(Hamilton Spectator, Daniel Nolan, June 7 2014)

With some Hamilton Liberal candidates dissenting on the idea of a light rail transit (LRT) line for the city, Premier Kathleen Wynne says it makes it more important for the province to hear from the city on its transportation priorities.

"As these decisions are made, the provincial government must partner with municipal government and make sure the priorities of communities are heard and that the investments are made in the best way possible," she said Saturday morning during a campaign stop in Waterdown.

"I know that there has been a lot of conversation about the LRT."

Read it in full here.

[matt602]

Maybe we should submit our preference to the province, officially, then.

Oh wait, we did over a year ago:

http://raisethehammer.org/article/1792/r..._commitment_to_integrated_transportation

"The report recommends that Council direct public works staff to submit the report to Metrolinx as Hamilton's submission and plan for a B-Line light rail transit (LRT) service."

[lucasmascotto]

Can we please create a petition and collect a bunch of signatures and mail it to various politicians?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by matt602

Maybe we should submit our preference to the province, officially, then.

Oh wait, we did over a year ago:

http://raisethehammer.org/article/1792/r..._commitment_to_integrated_transportation

"The report recommends that Council direct public works staff to submit the report to Metrolinx as Hamilton's submission and plan for a B-Line light rail transit (LRT) service."

Local Liberal cabinet minister's show of support for Hamilton LRT: “The best transit option will be determined by council and supported by citizens.”

Champions from the Bratina school.

[drpgq]

Pretty annoying that two Liberal candidates (not MPPs) can continue to throw more sand in the works. As I've argued, this suits the Liberals just fine. They don't have to spend any real money in Hamilton and deploy it in their electoral base.

[thistleclub]

Are Liberals dense or sneaky on LRT?
(Hamilton Spectator, Andrew Dreschel, June 11 2014)

Holy Schmidt!

When will the Ontario Liberal Party get it through its thick skull that Hamilton has a position on LRT and it hasn't changed?

The Liberals' refusal to accept that stark fact is fast becoming a running joke or, worse, grounds for a conspiracy theory.

Premier Kathleen Wynne made the latest political pratfall on behalf of her party last weekend while campaigning in Hamilton.

Given that local Liberal candidates Javid Mirza and Ivan Luksic oppose light rail transit, Wynne reportedly said that makes it more important for the province to hear from the city on its transportation priorities.

"As these decision are made, the provincial government must partner with municipal government and make sure the priorities of communities are heard and that the investments are made in the best way possible," Wynne said.
"I know there has been a lot of conversation about the LRT."

Wynne must be under a lot of pressure in these dying days of the election campaign. But her comments once again suggest her party is either not firmly seated in the socket on this file or it's playing some kind of sick mind game with Hamiltonians.


Read it in full here.

[interr0bangr]

Horwath is a 100% lock in Hamilton Center right, like, it's not even a race?

[Beedok]

I'd say 90% (maybe 95%).