DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Best adaptive reuse I have seen in this development cycle!!

Thanks for the photos, Ryan!

I'm disappointed that there isn't more meeting space in the hotel because this would be one very cool place to have a conference. But, it's still a pretty nice project.

[rds70]

For those who might have thought 1144 Fifteenth was still in the conceptual stages: www.1144fifteenth.com

Edit: Sorry, about an hour ago there was a fully functional website for the project. It has now reverted back to the coming soon placeholder.

[FrancoRey]

Originally Posted by rds70

For those who might have thought 1144 Fifteenth was still in the conceptual stages: www.1144fifteenth.com

I haven't felt this kind of glee since 2006 when the Spire and Four Seasons websites were launched.

Now don't fall apart like some of the other projects 'round here (II Tabor, original 1401 Lawrence, cough cough).

[Fritzdude]

wow.. big day in prospective Denver developments.

A 25 story apartment building would be a great use for that open space next to the Wells Fargo building. Too bad condos weren't an option, but I'll take it!

I'd love to see a canyon form along Broadway with streetcars running north and south some day.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by Fritzdude

wow.. big day in prospective Denver developments.

A 25 story apartment building would be a great use for that open space next to the Wells Fargo building. Too bad condos weren't an option, but I'll take it!

I'd love to see a canyon form along Broadway with streetcars running north and south some day.

Just for comparison sake, here is SkyHouse Houston. Ours will trend more toward the earth tones I'm sure, but still will be similar from those elevations posted previously.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/...-to-break-ground-on.html?s=image_gallery

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Best adaptive reuse I have seen in this development cycle!!

Awesome photos. Much appreciated.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Just for comparison sake, here is SkyHouse Houston. Ours will trend more toward the earth tones I'm sure, but still will be similar from those elevations posted previously.

http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/blog/...-to-break-ground-on.html?s=image_gallery

Why would the parking not be in a base podium? Is that to save money on excavation?

[EngiNerd]

Honestly, it seemed sorta silly to me too...there can't really be that much a cost premium to go a 7 floors higher with a tower over a parking podium than building a completely separate standalone garage, that needs its own foundation and lateral force resisting system. A separate garage like this can be more efficient (park more cars per sq. ft.) because you don't have to accommodate the structure from the tower above, but that would hardly make it worth it in my mind. Seems like they could have built the tower and garage on only one quarter the lot and then sold off the remainder of the lot to gain some money back.

There is always the possibility that they are designing the garage for vertical expansion with a future tower and will share parking between the two in this one garage.

EDIT: Just did a quick calc. (you know, because I'm a nerd) to see how much parking that garage in the elevations Denver Cityscape might hold....It appears to be 6 levels above the ground level (which we can assume is retail) and the lot for the garage alone is probably 24,000 sq. ft. or so per floor plate. That would be 144,000 total sq. ft. for parking, divided by a decent parking efficiency of 320 sq. ft. per parking stall, that would mean that garage would hold approximately 450 cars or so. There are 354 units in the apartment building, so that's a parking ratio of about 1.3:1, which is probably about what the developer aimed for since its an apartment. So probably no future tower unless they add more parking which gets not so great above 7 stories or so because it takes so long to drive to the top.

[denconyny]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

This is great news, another large parking lot bites the dust, with a significantly tall building to boot! Just the other day someone on this board made a comment about the sea of parking in that area in what could be argued is the core of Downtown, and wishing it would begin to be whittled away....well this is a good start.....

That was me nagging about the parking lots in that area in the previous thread, and I was responding to a snark made by King DenCity as follows:

"you know what would look great on the skyline? a nice 823 footer at 18th and Lincoln"

Well, I don't think that this SkyHouse is going to be 823 feet, but with some 25 stories it probably will be over 300 feet, which will at least begin to help to fill that whole Broadway/18th to 21st Streets, where there still will be about 9 1/2 big, massive empty surface parking lot blocks to fill. This area is where Upper and Central DT meet, along with Uptown, (about 2 blocks away) and Arapahoe Square and even 5 Points (about 2 blocks away) all converge. This area should should be filled with an abundance of the city life in Denver, and instead, such a disgrace that so many of these big surface parking lots exist in that small 3-4 block stretch of Broadway..... but let's keep our fingers crossed that this SkyHouse isn't another Denver pie-in-the-sky proposed development that never gets to fruition, and if it's built, it will be another surface parking lot to bite the dust..... YEA!!!

Also, pretty good premonition by King DenCity here...... or was it really?????

[Cirrus]

It's bizarre, but that's Houston for you.

[EngiNerd]

Not just Houston, the one that's proposed for 18th and Broadway is the exact same with the parking garage separated from the tower. In fact looking them up, they are all designed that way (Orlando, Houston, Austin, Atlanta), with the garage separate of the tower.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

EDIT: Just did a quick calc. (you know, because I'm a nerd) to see how much parking that garage in the elevations Denver Cityscape might hold....It appears to be 6 levels above the ground level (which we can assume is retail) and the lot for the garage alone is probably 24,000 sq. ft. or so per floor plate. That would be 144,000 total sq. ft. for parking, divided by a decent parking efficiency of 320 sq. ft. per parking stall, that would mean that garage would hold approximately 450 cars or so. There are 354 units in the apartment building, so that's a parking ratio of about 1.3:1, which is probably about what the developer aimed for since its an apartment. So probably no future tower unless they add more parking which gets not so great above 7 stories or so because it takes so long to drive to the top.

Before anyone opens their yap and starts bitching, just remember downtown has NO parking minimums- the 1.3:1 ratio is entirely dependent on the developer.

Not everyone wants to bike to Vitamin Cottage for their toilet paper. 98% of us don't.

[EngiNerd]

Being that they are primarily developing in other car-less challenged downtown areas (except maybe Austin....maybe), they are probably just using the same parking ratios for all of their developments regardless of the city, unless that city specifically calls for a certain requirement (which for an average apartment building, usually comes out to about 1.3 anyway for most jurisdictions that do have parking minimums).

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Not everyone wants to bike to Vitamin Cottage for their toilet paper. 98% of us don't.

Bunt's not biting.

[PLANSIT]

The market still dictates parking, but to Engi's point, this developer probably knows jack about Denver and is using their standard ratios. And that's fine.

They'll have to have bike parking too.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Not everyone wants to bike to Vitamin Cottage for their toilet paper. 98% of us don't.

That cracked me up the 1st time you said that, making TP from Riverfront leaves as I recall (hehe).

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Not just Houston....

I assumed Cirrus's reference was to how Houston has no zoning and things just get plopped wherever a developer wishes.

Originally Posted by denconyny

.... but let's keep our fingers crossed that this SkyHouse isn't another Denver pie-in-the-sky proposed development that never gets to fruition, and if it's built, it will be another surface parking lot to bite the dust..... YEA!!!

I gotta believe this is a go. Per Denver Cityscape this has already been sent out for bids with intent to start construction near year end. As others have pointed out it's just a repetition of projects in other cities. From their web site they are now building their 10th SkyHouse in Charlotte.

Not sure my 1st thought would have been to build an apartment at this site but upon reflection it seems like a perfect spot and this project looks like it was designed for this site. A unique niche market area I would guess prospective tenants might be older than other parts of downtown. Also a great location for corporate rentals I'd guess.

I'd likely be more surprised if SkyHouse Denver didn't get built.

[Stonemans_rowJ]

If you live within a short walk of a grocery store (vitamin cottage) and soon to be 2 more for many residents of Union Station, Commons Park, Riverfront, Lohi then yes you will be walking or biking there for toilet paper because its more convenient. The point is not that it is a Vitamin Cottage, its that a dense neighborhood should have a grocery or market within walking or biking distance. Because VC is quirky and organic, it is easy to scoff at it as being a hipster hangout of crunchy people who ride fixed gear bikes. In reality, many people in the aforementioned neighborhoods use it as a neighborhood grocer, and I wouldn't be surprised if the 15th and Platte store is VERY profitable. Of course, it will have some serious competition soon. I will shop at the new Kings' Fresh Fare and Whole Foods (if/when that opens) as well when they open.

Really this location on 18th and Broadway is not convenient to any grocery stores. The walk from the Un-Safeway across Park would kind of suck. This points to the need for retail or commercial along Broadway and more in that section of town in general. I am fine with the parking offered at this location; it just seems a little like an underutilization of the site to have a separate parking garage. With that being said, its better than 2 huge surface lots.

[King DenCity]

Originally Posted by denconyny

That was me nagging about the parking lots in that area in the previous thread, and I was responding to a snark made by King DenCity as follows:

"you know what would look great on the skyline? a nice 823 footer at 18th and Lincoln"

Well, I don't think that this SkyHouse is going to be 823 feet, but with some 25 stories it probably will be over 300 feet, which will at least begin to help to fill that whole Broadway/18th to 21st Streets, where there still will be about 9 1/2 big, massive empty surface parking lot blocks to fill. This area is where Upper and Central DT meet, along with Uptown, (about 2 blocks away) and Arapahoe Square and even 5 Points (about 2 blocks away) all converge. This area should should be filled with an abundance of the city life in Denver, and instead, such a disgrace that so many of these big surface parking lots exist in that small 3-4 block stretch of Broadway..... but let's keep our fingers crossed that this SkyHouse isn't another Denver pie-in-the-sky proposed development that never gets to fruition, and if it's built, it will be another surface parking lot to bite the dust..... YEA!!!

Also, pretty good premonition by King DenCity here...... or was it really?????

it will be good no doubt.

[BG918]

Tony's Market is just down the street from this proposed Sky House. I live nearby and go often for prepared foods and small items, usually walking there. There's a full meat and seafood market and bakery. It's a fantastic urban grocery.

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by BG918

Tony's Market is just down the street from this proposed Sky House. I live nearby and go often for prepared foods and small items, usually walking there. There's a full meat and seafood market and bakery. It's a fantastic urban grocery.

Safeway is about the same distance on 20th and Clarkson.